IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[FromGermany1]

Your thoughts are based on the assumption that it is known RA preplanned the murder of Libby and Abby in the bridge area in advance. That’s never been a statement of fact made by LE or anyone else for that matter, that I can recall.

Maybe murdering two innocent teens wasn’t his initial intention when he went walking on the trails that day and instead he reacted to a sudden opportunity? We don’t know what motivated him except obviously it was not logical nor rational thought. JMO

At home or at his work place, where he was before entering the MHB area, he must have had plans to do something to these girls. Otherwise I wouldn't know, why he had his jacket stuffed with material and why he had a weapon with him. For checking the stock market it wasn't necessary to be equipped so very well. If he had plans, to do something unspeakable to the girls, he would have known also, that these grown teenagers would be two serious witnesses afterwards. No 4 yo children, whose testimony would be doubted. So, his plan must have included the elimination of the witnesses. MOO I can't imagine it any other way.
ETA: Why Abby and Libby, Idk. How he did know of their presence, I also don't know. There must have been an Internet connection, in what form ever.

 

[MistyWaters]

At home or at his work place, where he was before entering the MHB area, he must have had plans to do something to these girls. Otherwise I wouldn't know, why he had his jacket stuffed with material and why he had a weapon with him. For checking the stock market it wasn't necessary to be equipped so very well. If he had plans, to do something unspeakable to the girls, he would have known also, that these grown teenagers would be two serious witnesses afterwards. No 4 yo children, whose testimony would be doubted. So, his plan must have included the elimination of the witnesses. MOO I can't imagine it any other way.
ETA: Why Abby and Libby, Idk. How he did know of their presence, I also don't know. There must have been an Internet connection, in what form ever.

Was it unusual for RA to carry weapons? Maybe he was so paranoid because of some past event that he felt he needed to protect himself 24/7? We know so little about him or his personality. Did he have a violent temper, especially if was depressed and had been drinking? I think it’d be true to say we know next to nothing about his personality and temperament.

But LE has never suggested they believe Abby and Libby were targeted - in fact hadn’t they indicated otherwise? I don’t have a link but that’s my memory.

We know Libby and Abby became his victims and he would’ve known of their presence since he obviously crossed paths with them, whether that was by sheer chance or preplanned, that’s the part we don’t know. One over the other doesn’t improve or detract from the fact he’s an alleged murderer. Motive doesn’t have to be proven in court and that’s a very good thing. Of all the cases I’ve ever followed, the reason why the victim/s were killed never makes sense.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe some day we’ll get answers? Was the “one piece“ a gun matching the bullet or was it something else? And I don’t think it’s still clear why the difficulty getting to where the bodies were found indicated the killer was local.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Q. The public has heard for four years, the investigation “is one puzzle piece from being solved.” What is that one piece specifically? Is it a name? Is it Jon Doe told me he killed the kids? Or, are you looking for confirmation of what you know- Jon Doe was not at work, he has a blue jacket, he cut his hair on Feb 14 or I saw a guy with a bloody jacket at 4 p.m. on Feb 13 at the gas station? You are not giving the public a lot to work with yet no arrests in four years. Aren’t you worried about more victims? Is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that is why no press conference or additional information is being released?

A. The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

……..

Q. There are many residents of the county that have never been on the trails, describe the terrain of where the girls were found? What is the most direct route out of the area they were found? How long of a walk from where they entered to where they were found?

A. Very similar to one of the state’s parks. A lot of hills, brush, trees, etc. Directly south of the Morning Heights Cemetery but on private property. I do not recall the specific distance.

Q. Describe the area where you believe “down the hill” was said?

A. South end of the High Bridge.

Q. Ron Logan has stated on news programs the only way to get to the site is over difficult terrain and private property. Given the difficulty getting to where the bodies were found, many believe the killer(s) were familiar with the area. Do you as a law enforcement officer believe that as well?

A. Very much so. It is part of the reason why we continually feel it is a “local” or someone who was very familiar with the area.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

There are some of us here that have washed their hands of any KAK or internet involvement since the arrest of RA. There are some of us that still think there is an internet connection of some sort, a wider net.
I use the word “us” because, in my eyes, no matter what we’re thinking at this point, we’re all in it together. We all want Justice for Libby and Abby and their families. I respect everybody’s ideas.
The crazy thing to me at this time is this: we went through over five years of knowing nothing about the investigation, then there is an out of the blue arrest, and now, except for some info from the PCA and search warrant(that had to pried from the hands of LE), we know almost nothing. We don’t even know anything to speak of about RA, and I know we’ve all tried to shake out something.
It is, it has been, and it continues to be a frustrating case to follow. But, like y’all, I’m in it to the gavel falls and the judge says “guilty”.

 

[MistyWaters]

There are some of us here that have washed their hands of any KAK or internet involvement since the arrest of RA. There are some of us that still think there is an internet connection of some sort, a wider net.
I use the word “us” because, in my eyes, no matter what we’re thinking at this point, we’re all in it together. We all want Justice for Libby and Abby and their families. I respect everybody’s ideas.
The crazy thing to me at this time is this: we went through over five years of knowing nothing about the investigation, then there is an out of the blue arrest, and now, except for some info from the PCA and search warrant(that had to pried from the hands of LE), we know almost nothing. We don’t even know anything to speak of about RA, and I know we’ve all tried to shake out something.
It is, it has been, and it continues to be a frustrating case to follow. But, like y’all, I’m in it to the gavel falls and the judge says “guilty”.

I have to say I greatly admire the folks of Delphi for keeping quiet about what kind of person they know RA to be so as to keep any future jury pool impartial. It’s only the opinion of the jury that‘s important. The behaviour of the local people remind me of an old saying that my mother often repeated “If you don’t have anything good to say, then don’t say anything at all.“ I can imagine the silence is enough to drive writers for DM and the like to pull out their hair in frustration!

Most of the public comments have been more or less neutral, nothing from anyone strongly strongly defending him, for example ”I’ve known RA for many years, he’s the kindest guy you’d ever know, he’d never harm a flea, they’ve arrested the wrong guy!” Thinking about it, I can’t recall a single soul (except for his attorneys) who have publicly promoted his innocence. Very telling IMO It’s as if his innocence is not worth defending by any others.

 

[TL4S]

There are some of us here that have washed their hands of any KAK or internet involvement since the arrest of RA. There are some of us that still think there is an internet connection of some sort, a wider net.
I use the word “us” because, in my eyes, no matter what we’re thinking at this point, we’re all in it together. We all want Justice for Libby and Abby and their families. I respect everybody’s ideas.
The crazy thing to me at this time is this: we went through over five years of knowing nothing about the investigation, then there is an out of the blue arrest, and now, except for some info from the PCA and search warrant(that had to pried from the hands of LE), we know almost nothing. We don’t even know anything to speak of about RA, and I know we’ve all tried to shake out something.
It is, it has been, and it continues to be a frustrating case to follow. But, like y’all, I’m in it to the gavel falls and the judge says “guilty”.

I totally agree. Personally, I'm completely unsettled by this case. Before the gag order, NMcL stood before the court and said they have "good reason" to believe other(s) might be involved. I respect the differing opinions here on what that means and why he might have said it, and that it might be meaningless now after ten months with no other arrests, but I'm just not able to put it to rest. And I won't be able to put it to rest until we hear otherwise from NMcL or LE. IMO, the other(s) could be anyone, in any capacity, not just the players we've all heard about. Or, it could be nobody. That answer can only come from those who know, and I'm willing to accept it when it comes.

But it does need to come. Justice for the girls is justice for the community, and IMO, the community needs an answer to this lingering doubt, because if I haven't been able to dismiss NMcL's words, then I'm sure some in the community have not, either. JMO.

 

[AC4RD]

At home or at his work place, where he was before entering the MHB area, he must have had plans to do something to these girls. Otherwise I wouldn't know, why he had his jacket stuffed with material and why he had a weapon with him. For checking the stock market it wasn't necessary to be equipped so very well. If he had plans, to do something unspeakable to the girls, he would have known also, that these grown teenagers would be two serious witnesses afterwards. No 4 yo children, whose testimony would be doubted. So, his plan must have included the elimination of the witnesses. MOO I can't imagine it any other way.
ETA: Why Abby and Libby, Idk. How he did know of their presence, I also don't know. There must have been an Internet connection, in what form ever.

Just so I'm on record about this: I gave your post a "sad" face because your comments are sad, not because I disliked your post. I thought this post was well-reasoned and plausible. (Under "jacket stuffed with material and why he had a weapon," you didn't mention that baby goat in his jacket.) ;-) So the sad face--as always with me--means the discussion made me sad, NOT that I disliked it.

(I HOPE that's how they're ordinarily used and I'm not accidentally insulting people; @FromGermany1 is a long-time acquaintance who often has very good insights and expresses them well.) --ken

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I totally agree. Personally, I'm completely unsettled by this case. Before the gag order, NMcL stood before the court and said they have "good reason" to believe other(s) might be involved. I respect the differing opinions here on what that means and why he might have said it, and that it might be meaningless now after ten months with no other arrests, but I'm just not able to put it to rest. And I won't be able to put it to rest until we hear otherwise from NMcL or LE. IMO, the other(s) could be anyone, in any capacity, not just the players we've all heard about. Or, it could be nobody. That answer can only come from those who know, and I'm willing to accept it when it comes.

But it does need to come. Justice for the girls is justice for the community, and IMO, the community needs an answer to this lingering doubt, because if I haven't been able to dismiss NMcL's words, then I'm sure some in the community have not, either. JMO.

I really don’t understand why at this point LE can’t give some clarification on whether others might be involved.
If there are others involved, say it. By now anybody who might have been involved with RA knows it whether LE has identified them or not and they have gotten rid of whatever they deem incriminating. Continue to hunt them down.
If KAK is a POI in any capacity, say it. He’s in jail. Anyone connected with him in his CSAM activities has log ago started covering their tracks. Keeping silent protects nothing.
If RA had CSAM connections, say it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I really don’t understand why at this point LE can’t give some clarification on whether others might be involved.
If there are others involved, say it. By now anybody who might have been involved with RA knows it whether LE has identified them or not and they have gotten rid of whatever they deem incriminating. Continue to hunt them down.
If KAK is a POI in any capacity, say it. He’s in jail. Anyone connected with him in his CSAM activities has log ago started covering their tracks. Keeping silent protects nothing.
If RA had CSAM connections, say it.

With the gag order, we aren't going to be hearing anything until trial. It's so frustrating after all these years not knowing, but I believe RA knew somehow that Abbey and Libby were going to be there.

 

[dm799]

Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

Oh dear! (RSBM).

 

[MistyWaters]

I really don’t understand why at this point LE can’t give some clarification on whether others might be involved.
If there are others involved, say it. By now anybody who might have been involved with RA knows it whether LE has identified them or not and they have gotten rid of whatever they deem incriminating. Continue to hunt them down.
If KAK is a POI in any capacity, say it. He’s in jail. Anyone connected with him in his CSAM activities has log ago started covering their tracks. Keeping silent protects nothing.
If RA had CSAM connections, say it.

JMO, this (below) needed to be spoken in order to clear the way toward a successful prosecution. Isn’t every investigation considered open until such time that a jury convicts an accused? This one would be no different, avoiding accusations of tunnel vision. However we do know at this time, no additional charges have been laid against anyone else so to me that indicates no 2nd party compelling evidence exists. That would include CSAM charges against RA, if connections were found there should be nothing preventing additional and separate charges heaped upon him IMO.

BBM

Suspect arrested for Delphi murders after teen girls found dead on trail

A CVS employee has been charged with the so-called ‘Snapchat’ murders of two best friends who were found dead on a historic Indiana bridge on Valentine’s Day in 2017. Richard M. A…

www.the-sun.com

“In the wake of the arrest, an emotional Indiana State Police Superintendent Douglas Carter said on Monday: "Peace came over me -- and I didn’t expect that to happen.”

Carter said he hoped Allen's arrest would help the families find "some peace in this complicated world," vowing to hold anyone else accountable.

"Today is not a day to celebrate, but the arrest of Richard M. Allen of Delphi on two counts of murder is sure a major step in leading to the conclusion of this long-term and complex investigation," Carter said.

Despite the arrest, Carter said authorities will continue to conduct a "methodical and committed approach," declaring the case "far from complete".

“We are going to continue a very methodical and committed approach to ensure that if any other person had any involvement in these murders in any way, that person or person will be held accountable," he said.

Carter urged the public to continue sending tips as the case remains open.

The ISP superintendent said investigators are seeking information "not only about Richard Allen but about any other person you may have."

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland declined to elaborate on whether authorities are seeking additional suspects….”

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh dear! (RSBM).

I see you also notice the “one piece” aptly describes the transcript of the interview between RA and the CO which the investigators failed to see because it was apparently misfiled. If so, good catch!

 

[FromGermany1]

Just so I'm on record about this: I gave your post a "sad" face because your comments are sad, not because I disliked your post. I thought this post was well-reasoned and plausible. (Under "jacket stuffed with material and why he had a weapon," you didn't mention that baby goat in his jacket.) ;-) So the sad face--as always with me--means the discussion made me sad, NOT that I disliked it.

(I HOPE that's how they're ordinarily used and I'm not accidentally insulting people; @FromGermany1 is a long-time acquaintance who often has very good insights and expresses them well.) --ken

Thank you! I also always hope, that my emojis and the meaning will be assigned correctly, haha.

 

[dm799]

I see you also notice the “one piece” aptly describes the transcript of the interview between RA and the CO which the investigators failed to see because it was apparently misfiled. If so, good catch!

Just incredibly frustrating to see things like this when we now know they had exactly what they needed the entire time. I can only hope that when this is finally over we (and more importantly the victims loved ones) receive an explanation and apology for the delayed justice caused by their incompetence.

 

[Justice101]

Your thoughts are based on the assumption that it is known RA preplanned the murder of Libby and Abby in the bridge area in advance. That’s never been a statement of fact made by LE or anyone else for that matter, that I can recall.

Maybe murdering two innocent teens wasn’t his initial intention when he went walking on the trails that day and instead he reacted to a sudden opportunity? We don’t know what motivated him except obviously it was not logical nor rational thought. JMO

That's what I think. I think he made that drive/walk more than one time.. He was probably just hoping for any female alone and low and behold he has 2 teens trapped at the end of the bridge. He had the gun and knife and decided this was his chance. I really think they were randomly selected based on where they were and who they were. But I also think he acted out of anger "to show them" for laughing/staring at him like he was a creep.

Those poor poor girls.

 

[AC4RD]

That's what I think. I think he made that drive/walk more than one time.. He was probably just hoping for any female alone and low and behold he has 2 teens trapped at the end of the bridge. He had the gun and knife and decided this was his chance. I really think they were randomly selected based on where they were and who they were. But I also think he acted out of anger "to show them" for laughing/staring at him like he was a creep.

Those poor poor girls.

Just for the record, this is pretty much what I think, too. I'm not going to say I'm certain about it--I've been wrong on this case too often. But the idea that he had Evil Intentions and had been trolling for victims frequently prior to the girls' murders--that sounds most plausible to me personally.

Where I differ from @Justice101 is that I think it's more likely that Bridge Guy was looking for a young woman as a victim and decided L&A were it, after multiple trips to the bridge area. But the "angry at girls' reaction to him" is also plausible IMO.

I think it's likely that if BG *was* pre-aware of L&A's trip and he had been stalking them, we already would have heard about it pre-trial. Ditto with child-sex materials. But I won't be very surprised if I'm wrong about those.

All just FWIW IMO YMMV LS/MFT. (And we still don't have anything certain about that baby goat hidden in BG's jacket) --ken

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Somewhere, maybe in the sleeve of the jacket, he also stuffed a complete change of clothing, a wig, and a shaving kit. I also heard somewhere he had a hidden python that devoured the baby goat and apparently that’s what caused his lopsided stride

That is indeed plausible.

 

[Justice101]

One guy "proved" thru triangulation that the guy was only 4 ft 11 inches tall.

I suppose he was smarter than the FBI.

 

[CGBSpender]

I didn't find it but here is what was covered in that hearing. Wouldn't that be on the atty's view of the docket? Why would they need the transcript?

05/30/2023

Order Issued The Court, having had the defendant's Motion to Quash Subpoena under advisement, now grants the Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility relating to defendant's mental health records, mental health evaluations and/or exams, medical documentation and/or medical evaluations. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility regarding audio/video recordings, written observations, recordings, phone calls, written requests, or other documentation is denied. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to CVS Headquarters is denied. The defense Motion to Reconsider and Request for Due Process Hearing ordered set for hearing June 15, 2023, at 10:00 a.m. The hearing currently set on defendant's request for bail is ordered converted to a hearing on defendant's Motion to Suppress. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 05/25/2023

Most of the time written transcripts of hearings are not created. Everything said in court "on the record" is recorded by a Court recorder/reporter, but if either side wants an actual written transcript of the hearing, they need to actually request it...at which time the Court recorder/reporter (or a contractor if that person is busy) will take the recording and transcribe it word for word into a written transcript.

JMO

 

[TheVisual]

The baby goat was ridiculous and there was someone else who said he had a shotgun on him - with the stock being under his jacket and the barrel slid down his pants leg. There was also some who said there was a newborn puppy dog stuffed in his right coat pocket to lure the girls away.

You can't make this stuff up.

No newborn, just a small dog. He also had a leash on his left leg at his thigh as is evident in Michael Gartley's picture in the image thread(page 13 and item 252) It's a leash to lead 2 dogs but only had one that day. Also in his right pocket you can see the antenna (next to the gun) of a remote for a electronic dog collar. You have to know what you're looking for. JMO