IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[mrjitty]

I’m going to say it again. The fact that they did not meet with the forensic pathologist that conducted the autopsies prior to filing the Franks Memorandum speaks volumes.

Interesting

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Infamous Memorandum, pg 90
QOUTE
Liggett either intentionally or recklessly concealed the Odinite/Brad Holder information
from Judge Diener in his October 13, 2022, Affidavit for Search Warrant. Then Liggett and McCleland attempted to conceal exculpatory information from the Defense.
Had Judge Diener known of this concealed evidence, then Diener would not – or should
not – have signed the warrant. And had the Defense not dug in hard and found the needles in the haystack that led to its knowledge of Holder and Odinism, then the Defense may never have thought to ask for the missing discovery, and McCleland would never have turned over the Click letter to the Defense. Without the Click letter the Defense would not have learned of other exculpatory evidence.
The facts show that Liggett acted intentionally and recklessly.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

Why in the world would the PCA or the Affidavit for a Search Warrant for Richard Allen need to include anything about an investigative line that was dropped five years earlier about Odinists? This was about RA and no one else. That is a complete non-starter.
Everything else here is ex-defense version of what happened about any of this. It is not fact.
When the prosecution explains in court, with sworn witnesses etc, why LE stopped pursuing the pagan theory, then we will actually know why they dropped it legitimately. I think it will look a lot different than what the ex-defense is recklessly bandying about.

edit: typo

 

[mrjitty]

Why in the world would the PCA or the Affidavit for a Search Warrant for Richard Allen need to include anything about an investigative line that was dropped five years earlier about Odinists? This was about RA and no one else. That is a complete non-starter.
Everything else here is ex-defense version of what happened about any of this. It is not fact.
When the prosecution explains in court, with sworn witnesses etc, why LE stopped pursuing the pagan theory, then we will actually know why they dropped it legitimatel. I think it will look a lot different than what the ex-defense is recklessly bandying about.

Right - the existence of alternate suspects is relevant in a prelim, or at trial.

Given their claims, I don't really understand why the defence has not focussed on pretrial applications to get evidence ruled inadmissible so as to collapse the trial before it starts.

They had not managed to have a single evidentiary hearing one year in.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Filing applications is a professional way focussed only on the relevant facts and citing the relevant authorities at hand?

Whatever next!

Well, you did point out that oddity between U.S. trials compared to your home jurisdiction. There are probably more to come.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Why in the world would the PCA or the Affidavit for a Search Warrant for Richard Allen need to include anything about an investigative line that was dropped five years earlier about Odinists? This was about RA and no one else. That is a complete non-starter.
Everything else here is ex-defense version of what happened about any of this. It is not fact.
When the prosecution explains in court, with sworn witnesses etc, why LE stopped pursuing the pagan theory, then we will actually know why they dropped it legitimately. I think it will look a lot different than what the ex-defense is recklessly bandying about.

edit: typo

I believe the exculpatory evidence was known when the SW was signed. If they were sitting on that evidence and still went after the RA SW, then I don't know where that falls within the law. I have absolutely NO background in law but maybe some of the many here who know more than I do can answer your question.

There are hundreds of docs that we've never seen and only guessed about. I believe there is something exculpatory that Click and the other two found; and it was enough that he wrote a letter to NMcL and included an 85 page document. He stated on Murder Sheet just a few months ago that he and the defense agree on who is responsible for the crime.

In the first 5 minutes

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

In this episode, we will answer a litany of legal questions stemming from the Franks memorandum recently filed in the Delphi murders case. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

 

[duckcat]

Why in the world would the PCA or the Affidavit for a Search Warrant for Richard Allen need to include anything about an investigative line that was dropped five years earlier about Odinists? This was about RA and no one else. That is a complete non-starter.
Everything else here is ex-defense version of what happened about any of this. It is not fact.
When the prosecution explains in court, with sworn witnesses etc, why LE stopped pursuing the pagan theory, then we will actually know why they dropped it legitimately. I think it will look a lot different than what the ex-defense is recklessly bandying about.

edit: typo

The Franks was about more than Odinism however. The defense alleges that Liggett misrepresented witness descriptions to fit a certain timeline, and the defense alleged that RA said he left the park at 1:30, not ~3:30. The misrepresented witness statements (in their words—Liggett lied to Judge Diener) and the misrepresented timeline from RA’s statement that was conveniently not recorded and “misfiled” for six years, were key pieces of evidence to secure the SW. It isn’t a light thing for attorneys to make statements that are blatantly lies in a legal setting. There is much more evidence of an ongoing coverup and corruption occurring in Carroll County than these two private practice lawyers who got assigned as PD’s just happening to go off script and full blown conspiracy theorist mode. There is much more to question about the motives of the prosecution and LE imo. B/R are not part of the “good ol boys club” and that alone speaks volumes.

If there’s a question that LE lied to a judge to secure a search warrant, why should we even trust that items recovered during the search weren’t planted? BW who received the leaked discovery key successfully filed a lawsuit about the exact same thing—LE lying to a judge and planting evidence. That was why Baldwin asked him to testify in the first place, and then he was mysteriously sent this leaked evidence and is now no longer usable as a witness.

 

[susiQ]

I believe the exculpatory evidence was known when the SW was signed. If they were sitting on that evidence and still went after the RA SW, then I don't know where that falls within the law. I have absolutely NO background in law but maybe some of the many here who know more than I do can answer your question.

There are hundreds of docs that we've never seen and only guessed about. I believe there is something exculpatory that Click and the other two found; and it was enough that he wrote a letter to NMcL and included an 85 page document. He stated on Murder Sheet just a few months ago that he and the defense agree on who is responsible for the crime.

In the first 5 minutes

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

In this episode, we will answer a litany of legal questions stemming from the Franks memorandum recently filed in the Delphi murders case. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

Thanks for posting this! Saved me looking for it .

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thanks for posting this! Saved me looking for it .

You're welcome. I listened to all of the other one first and didn't find it. Oh, the pain. lol..

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The Franks was about more than Odinism however. The defense alleges that Liggett misrepresented witness descriptions to fit a certain timeline, and the defense alleged that RA said he left the park at 1:30, not ~3:30. The misrepresented witness statements (in their words—Liggett lied to Judge Diener) and the misrepresented timeline from RA’s statement that was conveniently not recorded and “misfiled” for six years, were key pieces of evidence to secure the SW. It isn’t a light thing for attorneys to make statements that are blatantly lies in a legal setting. There is much more evidence of an ongoing coverup and corruption occurring in Carroll County than these two private practice lawyers who got assigned as PD’s just happening to go off script and full blown conspiracy theorist mode. There is much more to question about the motives of the prosecution and LE imo. B/R are not part of the “good ol boys club” and that alone speaks volumes.

If there’s a question that LE lied to a judge to secure a search warrant, why should we even trust that items recovered during the search weren’t planted? BW who received the leaked discovery key successfully filed a lawsuit about the exact same thing—LE lying to a judge and planting evidence. That was why Baldwin asked him to testify in the first place, and then he was mysteriously sent this leaked evidence and is now no longer usable as a witness.

I was responding to a post that was questioning how the S.W. could be legitimate since it didn’t mention the Odinist investigation from early in the investigation.
I don’t believe a word the ex-defense has to say about anything. Their ship of credibility sailed a long time ago. How quickly we forget why they were dismissed. Too very serious charges that they admitted to doing. Yet they are lifted up as heroes.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The Franks was about more than Odinism however. The defense alleges that Liggett misrepresented witness descriptions to fit a certain timeline, and the defense alleged that RA said he left the park at 1:30, not ~3:30. The misrepresented witness statements (in their words—Liggett lied to Judge Diener) and the misrepresented timeline from RA’s statement that was conveniently not recorded and “misfiled” for six years, were key pieces of evidence to secure the SW. It isn’t a light thing for attorneys to make statements that are blatantly lies in a legal setting. There is much more evidence of an ongoing coverup and corruption occurring in Carroll County than these two private practice lawyers who got assigned as PD’s just happening to go off script and full blown conspiracy theorist mode. There is much more to question about the motives of the prosecution and LE imo. B/R are not part of the “good ol boys club” and that alone speaks volumes.

If there’s a question that LE lied to a judge to secure a search warrant, why should we even trust that items recovered during the search weren’t planted? BW who received the leaked discovery key successfully filed a lawsuit about the exact same thing—LE lying to a judge and planting evidence. That was why Baldwin asked him to testify in the first place, and then he was mysteriously sent this leaked evidence and is now no longer usable as a witness.

If only they had stuck to the varying eyewitness accounts and timeline in the Franks I think they would have had a hearing by now.
But it appears they used crowdsourcing to come up with strategies and hypotheses that muddied the very case they were trying to make. IMO they ruined their credibility.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Discussion by the amici as to why they filed their brief in the case. The statement of interest is in the amicus brief for all to see but he boils it down here to the simple notion that if it is found the judge acted properly in replacing the attorneys, she should have replaced them with attorneys from Carroll County.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

Infamous Memorandum, pg 90
QOUTE
Liggett either intentionally or recklessly concealed the Odinite/Brad Holder information
from Judge Diener in his October 13, 2022, Affidavit for Search Warrant. Then Liggett and McCleland attempted to conceal exculpatory information from the Defense.
Had Judge Diener known of this concealed evidence, then Diener would not – or should
not – have signed the warrant. And had the Defense not dug in hard and found the needles in the haystack that led to its knowledge of Holder and Odinism, then the Defense may never have thought to ask for the missing discovery, and McCleland would never have turned over the Click letter to the Defense. Without the Click letter the Defense would not have learned of other exculpatory evidence.
The facts show that Liggett acted intentionally and recklessly.

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

Yes I know well what the Franks memo said and consider it only as the D's interpretation. More likely, after having investigated, LE did not consider the Odinist information to be relevant to gaining a search warrant for RA's house, vehicle and belongings. I also am not going to take the D's word, especially because of the numerous leaks and things contained in that Franks memo, that exculpatory evidence was willfully withheld from the defense. It's interesting that the state had numerous LE present at the Oct 19th hearing to testify yet the defense chose to not proceed to open court and have at them, bringing all their claims in the Franks memo to bear on the people being accused of misdeeds. It was being televised so they couldn't have ask for a bigger platform. Very odd they choose instead to agree to step down as RA's lawyers and willingly lied to the judge about their decisions. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Gee, that sounds like a conspiracy theory!

I think it sounds rather like a logical theory considering ALL the turn of events. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The P is to blame because the D did not leak the photos. P saw the case slipping away in AUG and were in full blown panic mode by Sept 18 when the Franks Memo dropped. They took advantage of a man who was willing to play dirty and possibly needed money or whatnot. The photos were like insurance or an Ace in the hole to the P. The leak was used to manipulate the D off the case .

This was the legal activity during AUG when the photos were stolen

8/8/23 - Sheriff Liggett deposition where he learns D is interested in the Odin theory
8/10/23 - Holeman deposition
8/17/23 - Guards stop wearing Odin patches

P needed this line of Defense to stop in its tracks. JG helped them.
MOO

TY to @duckcat @Ward Thisperer for the AUG TimeLines

Do you have links please, TIA

 

[sunshineray]

I believe the exculpatory evidence was known when the SW was signed. If they were sitting on that evidence and still went after the RA SW, then I don't know where that falls within the law. I have absolutely NO background in law but maybe some of the many here who know more than I do can answer your question.

There are hundreds of docs that we've never seen and only guessed about. I believe there is something exculpatory that Click and the other two found; and it was enough that he wrote a letter to NMcL and included an 85 page document. He stated on Murder Sheet just a few months ago that he and the defense agree on who is responsible for the crime.

In the first 5 minutes

The Delphi Murders: The Franks Memorandum: Questions: Part Two

In this episode, we will answer a litany of legal questions stemming from the Franks memorandum recently filed in the Delphi murders case. Send tips to murdersheet@gmail.com. The Murder Sheet is a production of Mystery Sheet LLC .

art19.com

SW falls under the investigation of the murders of Libby German and Abigail Williams. You can't mix the investigation with the actual pre-trial and trial after an accused is arraigned and charged. The main investigation comes before the others.

 

[DeDee]

Do you have links please, TIA

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

 

[FrostedGlass]

SW falls under the investigation of the murders of Libby German and Abigail Williams. You can't mix the investigation with the actual pre-trial and trial after an accused is arraigned and charged. The main investigation comes before the others.

I get the impression that you have some background in Indiana law.
OR is everything you say just your opinion?

 

[Jurisprudence]

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

I share your theory and opinion that is based on these timelines and how things unfolded. It seems suspect to me too and I'd like to know who else MW might have been connected to. jmo

The P is to blame because the D did not leak the photos. P saw the case slipping away in AUG and were in full blown panic mode by Sept 18 when the Franks Memo dropped. They took advantage of a man who was willing to play dirty and possibly needed money or whatnot. The photos were like insurance or an Ace in the hole to the P. The leak was used to manipulate the D off the case .

This was the legal activity during AUG when the photos were stolen

8/8/23 - Sheriff Liggett deposition where he learns D is interested in the Odin theory
8/10/23 - Holeman deposition
8/17/23 - Guards stop wearing Odin patches

P needed this line of Defense to stop in its tracks. JG helped them.
MOO

TY to @duckcat @Ward Thisperer for the AUG TimeLines

Things began to quickly spiral after they learned in August that the defense had become aware of these reports and evidence.

Thank you to @duckcat and @Ward Thisperer for providing the timelines with much detail.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Discussion by the amici as to why they filed their brief in the case. The statement of interest is in the amicus brief for all to see but he boils it down here to the simple notion that if it is found the judge acted properly in replacing the attorneys, she should have replaced them with attorneys from Carroll County.

jmo

He talks about Carroll Co. comprehensive plan and its list of public defenders. I'm going to see if I can find it so we can see who is listed.

The one murder trial in Carroll County (Willie Smith) has/had 3 defendants:
Jennifer Dean: atty Brian Karle, Lafayette
Shianne Brooks-Brown: atty Kurtis Fouts, then Lori James (end of Sept)
Tyrone Leftridge: atty Steven Ray Knecht LaFaytte

 

[Jurisprudence]

He talks about Carroll Co. comprehensive plan and its list of public defenders. I'm going to see if I can find it so we can see who is listed.

The one murder trial in Carroll County (Willie Smith) has/had 3 defendants:
Jennifer Dean: atty Brian Karle, Lafayette
Shianne Brooks-Brown: atty Kurtis Fouts, then Lori James (end of Sept)
Tyrone Leftridge: atty Steven Ray Knecht LaFaytte

CW touched on that briefly. I didn't pay all that much attention to it tbh except that it has something to do with how they are assigned in the state because of money to the county. There is a plan for all counties and it has to be followed. According to CW (as well as amicus) JG breached it. CW's interview can be found on DD with B&A Motta.

jmo