IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[mrjitty]

I’m not sure we ever will.

Agreed.

MW's motive for leaking confidential information confounds me. He apparently is a smart guy so he must have considered the ramifications of the leak getting out. If it was only the pictures, I would have assumed there was something in them that he thought would help RA's case. BUT if they leaked B&R's strategy, then that's another story. He absolutely would have known the damage that would result.

RSBM

This is where I am at but I think he has carefully pleaded out so he won’t explain it.

 

[sunshineray]

I just forced myself to listen to that podcase. As to your first question: I didn't hear them address that in their episode.

From the timeline, it seems that NM had to have gotten the leaked info first. IMO Since MS talked about how damaging it was for the D's strategy to be leaked to the prosecution...well, that just leads to more questions.

It seems to me something fishy was/is going on. First almost a year ago, in early Dec 2022, D puts it on the record they want all their strategies kept secret especially from the prosecution. They want all the hearings to be kept confidential. Judge rules to grant that.

When the D is given certain discovery in the months after that everything about that previously wanted secrecy just goes to heck. A seemingly moronic email leak of discovery goes to the wrong "Brad". (Why that youtuber even in the D's confidental email contacts chain is still confounding). Then a leak of D stategy and crime scene photos of the victims are leaked to numerous social media people by a former employee, still friend and case strategist of AB. Humm.

Now accusations are flying that none of this was the defense but the prosecution's doing. Double hummmm. Makes one almost think that the prosecution was set up a year ago. Oh judge it's all got to be secret, they get not so great for the defense discovery and one thing after another is leaked, some by a friend of the defense, in 2023. Then the formerly secret loving defense knowingly leaks court protected confidential information (and defense stategy) in a memorandum.

Now it's supposedly the judge and prosecutor who are at fault for all the defendant and defense's woes. Seems to me though, that it's the defense that stepped in "it" after they deposited "it". That's what makes the most sense of things to me. AJMO


"Dec. 9, 2022 - Request for privacy

Richard Allen's attorneys say they want their planned defense kept secret from everyone, including the prosecutor in the Delphi murders case.

Dec. 12, 2022 - Private hearings request granted

The special judge approved that request for private hearings.

In a filing to the court, Allen's attorneys ask for funding for the cost of experts. His attorneys point out that Allen does not have the money needed to help in his defense.

Allen's attorneys also asked for the judge to order court personnel and court reporters to keep any information in the court hearings confidential."

Richard Allen case | Full timeline and events so far

A status hearing held in Fort Wayne on Thursday will allow Judge Francis Gull to address both the defense and prosecution ahead of Richard Allen's jury trial.

www.google.com

 

[sunshineray]

MW's motive for leaking confidential information confounds me. He apparently is a smart guy so he must have considered the ramifications of the leak getting out. If it was only the pictures, I would have assumed there was something in them that he thought would help RA's case. BUT if they leaked B&R's strategy, then that's another story. He absolutely would have known the damage that would result.

Now, then, R's gone but what about the Texas guy? I'm guessing that since he leaked to MS, he probably leaked to the other 2 or 3 podcasters. If a person knowingly accepts a "conversion" item, are they guilty of a crime?

AND why was NM investigating it for 17 days? I thought he had detectives and investigators to do that for him.
DId he look at the D's plans?

Well maybe MW was directed to do it? Or maybe he's just a straight up moron?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

[sbm] We do now also have the fact that the investigation into the leaks has culminated with MW being charged with taking the pictures without permission. It seems that the LE investigation did not lead to a different finding than what AB and MW have said.

I think the word “culminated” is the issue for some. It leads toward it being the end, the climax. Which I don’t believe it is the end of the investigation. IMO this charge is for one act by MW that occurred sometime in August but I don’t think it’s all encompassing. There’s more to come-JMO

Pg 16, line 14
That was the accidental text to BW. He was arrested for something and apparently he leaked the leak.

In Camera Hearing Transcript.pdf

drive.google.com

The court became aware in May 23 of the accidental email from December 22 from AB to BW that was defense work product including a detailed outline of discovery. The fact is defense knew this leak had happened and did not notify the court or NM. They were notified by the state in May 23.
Page 14 lines 11-20

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q8Gdjm1JQL1KrRWo-ZJ-OdgV5qYtPkQF/view
In Camera Hearing Transcript.pdf

 

[Cyber sleuth]

MW's motive for leaking confidential information confounds me. He apparently is a smart guy so he must have considered the ramifications of the leak getting out. If it was only the pictures, I would have assumed there was something in them that he thought would help RA's case. BUT if they leaked B&R's strategy, then that's another story. He absolutely would have known the damage that would result.

Now, then, R's gone but what about the Texas guy? I'm guessing that since he leaked to MS, he probably leaked to the other 2 or 3 podcasters. If a person knowingly accepts a "conversion" item, are they guilty of a crime?

AND why was NM investigating it for 17 days? I thought he had detectives and investigators to do that for him.
DId he look at the D's plans?

1) I think the temptation to brag that he had been included in strategy building sessions was just too much. MW wanted to be a lawyer but failed the bar, he wanted to prove he was treated like an equal. I can recall his interview with TMS and he definitely considered himself a vital part of the team. He bragged about himself. AMO
2) think the Texas guy will face heat as well. Definitely since he forwarded the other parties or individuals. He could have made better choices.
3) I think NM was investigating because he wanted to see if any of these parties had any motives or bearings in the case before him. Outside of the legal ramifications there are professional and bet he wanted to make certain he was getting a full scope of what happened. All the players involved and why.
All my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

I never said it was ended? But it did lead to someone being charged solely with something which explicitly relies on AB not giving permission, and BR and AB are named as witnesses.

If the PCA affiant withheld info that would lead him to believe that MW did in fact have permission to take and share the photos then they are beginning the case in a bizarre and dishonest manner. Same with the prosecuting attorney.

View attachment 463434
So unless they are lying and affirming under the penalty of perjury things they don’t believe, it seems that the investigation that has been going on for 6 weeks has not led LE to believe AB was involved.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

In fairness and respectfully, you mentioned the investigation into the leaks had culminated. Culminated meaning the leak investigation having reach the point of highest development, the conclusion. That how I interpreted your post. IMO, we haven't heard all that was involved in the MW story yet. AJMO

 

[mrjitty]

The thing about the alleged leaked strategy stuff that MS say they gave to the police is that if AB freely gave that to MW because they were collaborating on the case, it wouldn’t be conversion? I wouldn’t necessarily expect MW would be charged with a crime in that regard.

My personal 02c is that MW admitted just the narrow facts that he has subsequently been charged with. But who knows what else his interrogation contains if anything.

 

[mrjitty]

1) I think the temptation to brag that he had been included in strategy building sessions was just too much. MW wanted to be a lawyer but failed the bar, he wanted to prove he was treated like an equal. I can recall his interview with TMS and he definitely considered himself a vital part of the team. He bragged about himself. AMO
2) think the Texas guy will face heat as well. Definitely since he forwarded the other parties or individuals. He could have made better choices.
3) I think NM was investigating because he wanted to see if any of these parties had any motives or bearings in the case before him. Outside of the legal ramifications there are professional and bet he wanted to make certain he was getting a full scope of what happened. All the players involved and why.
All my opinion.

Your point 1 is I suspect at the heart of it.

 

[sunshineray]

Your point 1 is I suspect at the heart of it.

Do we know, was MW still employed somewhere in the legal world when all this occured?

 

[TL4S]

1) I think the temptation to brag that he had been included in strategy building sessions was just too much. MW wanted to be a lawyer but failed the bar, he wanted to prove he was treated like an equal. I can recall his interview with TMS and he definitely considered himself a vital part of the team. He bragged about himself. AMO
2) think the Texas guy will face heat as well. Definitely since he forwarded the other parties or individuals. He could have made better choices.
3) I think NM was investigating because he wanted to see if any of these parties had any motives or bearings in the case before him. Outside of the legal ramifications there are professional and bet he wanted to make certain he was getting a full scope of what happened. All the players involved and why.
All my opinion.

I also tend to agree with your point 1. My personal feeling is that neither AB or MW ever intended these photos or strategy texts to get out into the public. It was stupid and inappropriate (and yes, probably negligent) on AB's part to be discussing the case with MW, but I don't think there was any conspiracy behind the leak. Instead, I think MW just happened to have a mutual interest in the case with R, so MW made the bad decision to give R some inside information. But R, in turn, then shared it even further, which I don't think was ever MW's intention. JMO. I could be wrong.

I would like to know what kind of charges R was possibly told he could be facing? What about possession and disseminating charges involving dead and/or nude children? Did MW still possess these photos at the time he was investigated? What even is the precedent for something like this? IDK?

 

[TL4S]

AB sent an email to the wrong person. AB left Delphi files out in an unsecured room. AB talked strategy with someone not part of the defense team. AB failed to inform anyone, including his co-counsel, about some of these failures. AB lawyered up. Okay, IANAL, but I would find it fair to say that AB was possibly "grossly negligent" and there could likely be a proper way to disqualify him, while still following due process. I'm not even going to be shocked if AB ends up facing some criminal charges himself. We shall see. JMO.

But BR, on the other hand, was not directly linked to any of the above. JG says the D was "lying" in their motion to have RA transferred out of Westville, although she did not list any of her evidence to such. Was it the testimony from that hearing, maybe, like from the warden? IDK. Is that enough to get BR disqualified? Not liking him personally, or his tactics, or the Franks memo just doesn't feel like enough, either. Again, IANAL. And I respect people's dislike the BR, but I see him distancing himself from AB and his conduct as a good move in regards to his (former) client's best interest. I guess I don't understand why BR had to go. Strictly from a legal standpoint.

 

[sunshineray]

AB sent an email to the wrong person. AB left Delphi files out in an unsecured room. AB talked strategy with someone not part of the defense team. AB failed to inform anyone, including his co-counsel, about some of these failures. AB lawyered up. Okay, IANAL, but I would find it fair to say that AB was possibly "grossly negligent" and there could likely be a proper way to disqualify him, while still following due process. I'm not even going to be shocked if AB ends up facing some criminal charges himself. We shall see. JMO.

But BR, on the other hand, was not directly linked to any of the above. JG says the D was "lying" in their motion to have RA transferred out of Westville, although she did not list any of her evidence to such. Was it the testimony from that hearing, maybe, like from the warden? IDK. Is that enough to get BR disqualified? Not liking him personally, or his tactics, or the Franks memo just doesn't feel like enough, either. Again, IANAL. And I respect people's dislike the BR, but I see him distancing himself from AB and his conduct as a good move in regards to his (former) client's best interest. I guess I don't understand why BR had to go. Strictly from a legal standpoint.

BR was directly linked to the confidential and under court protection information released in the FM. He was also negligently slow, IMO, to notify the court of the photos leak. He doesn't get to skate. AJMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

AB sent an email to the wrong person. AB left Delphi files out in an unsecured room. AB talked strategy with someone not part of the defense team. AB failed to inform anyone, including his co-counsel, about some of these failures. AB lawyered up. Okay, IANAL, but I would find it fair to say that AB was possibly "grossly negligent" and there could likely be a proper way to disqualify him, while still following due process. I'm not even going to be shocked if AB ends up facing some criminal charges himself. We shall see. JMO.

But BR, on the other hand, was not directly linked to any of the above. JG says the D was "lying" in their motion to have RA transferred out of Westville, although she did not list any of her evidence to such. Was it the testimony from that hearing, maybe, like from the warden? IDK. Is that enough to get BR disqualified? Not liking him personally, or his tactics, or the Franks memo just doesn't feel like enough, either. Again, IANAL. And I respect people's dislike the BR, but I see him distancing himself from AB and his conduct as a good move in regards to his (former) client's best interest. I guess I don't understand why BR had to go. Strictly from a legal standpoint.

I think AB is responsible for 2 leaks due to negligence on his part. One in May of 22 -which was not disclosed. The second leak may have been ongoing from August 1 to early October and is horrific in nature and damaging to the defendant.
I think the judge found issue with the inflammatory Press Release after agreeing to not to try the case in the media-BR
I think the judge was upset with the misleading claims in the Motion to Transfer filed in April- BR
I think the judge was unhappy with the lengthy and detailed memorandum was misfiled (she thought it should have been filed classified) and made public -BR

So as much as I believe BR actions individually are not as problematic; the culmination of errors/bad choices made by the defense tewm is almost beyond belief.

 

[sunshineray]

No we are talking about how in the transcript here NM says he has been investigating the leak nonstop for 17 days which puts his investigation starting in 10/2, before LE investigation started after being told by MS on 10/5.
Edit - oops didn’t see FG and CS already answered

Did those 17 days include when that "F" tree photo showed up? Wasn't there a few day's time before it was widely accepted as being genuine? Maybe someone brought that to P's attention after seeing it on NewsNation and then MS called LE on the 5th?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Since Judge Gull isn't currently healthy and requires assistance with her caseload, this is a perfect and face-saving way for her to request stepping down from this murder case against Richard Allen. I hope she does so.

Special judge in Delphi murders case recovering from ‘urgent medical condition’

Frances Gull reportedly spent several days in the hospital for inpatient treatment before she was released.

www.wndu.com

I don’t know if SCOIN will remove her, but whether they do or they don’t I expect that she will resign afterwards.
I think she wants to clear her name, pure and simple.
I’m not so sure she wants to be part of the circus any longer.
The ex-defense should not be reinstated.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Do we know, was MW still employed somewhere in the legal world when all this occured?

He was employed by another law firm. He was in charge of “ethics”.
Go figure.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Do we know, was MW still employed somewhere in the legal world when all this occured?

He was an Ethics and Compliance Officer of a firm in the Indianapolis area. I am not sure what type of firm.

 

[FromGermany1]

He was an Ethics and Compliance Officer of a firm in the Indianapolis area. I am not sure what type of firm.

6 Key Compliance Officer Skills | Skillcast

Protecting the ethical integrity of a company is the heart of being a compliance officer - but what are the key skills they need to succeed?

www.skillcast.com

​

3. Effective problem-solvers​

Compliance officers are met with problems every day. If someone in the business approaches them for guidance on how to handle a situation from a compliance perspective, they need to look at it from all angles and advise on the most appropriate form of action. And in many cases, the answer isn't necessarily straightforward.

But even more than that, you need to be able to go beyond just saying 'yes' or 'no'. If the preferred approach for the business could result in a violation, you need to be active in helping find an alternative solution.

Ask what the ideal outcome would be and work back from there. Wherever there is an alternative approach that would remove the risk of a regulatory investigation, you need to be committed to finding it.

-.-.-
As a friend and a man with these skills (among other things, of course) he could have been a great help for AB, IMO.

Did the Franks Memo need support by a certain photo series to reinforce special statements? Idk.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Well maybe MW was directed to do it? Or maybe he's just a straight up moron?

Why not both?

 

[girlhasnoname]

He was an Ethics and Compliance Officer of a firm in the Indianapolis area. I am not sure what type of firm.

You know he's probably out of a job now. E&C Officer, what are the odds? This case seems like something out of the Twilight Zone.

#Justice4Abby&Libby