IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[mrjitty]

Now, what fun would that be?

I guess I have just been burned too many times by defence counsel claims

I remember in McStay they stood up in opening and claimed an alternate suspect had not been investigated at all, then weeks later the prosecution presented his bank statements proving his alibi. Of course the defence knew this from discovery. They just blatantly lied in front of the jury.

So this stuff about Odinists making him confess etc? I am going to wait for the trial evidence as opposed to things the defendant 'might' say

 

[Justice101]

If I understand your question correctly….
In the Alex Murdaugh trial, after all or some results from the testing of things seized in the SW warrant were completed some of the results were made public, but not by a release of the information by the court to the public.
In particular, the defense wrote a long detailed motion about a shirt that purportedly had blood spatter on it. How the testing had been botched up, how the expert was manipulated, etc. There was a picture included for effect. The defense wanted that shirt thrown out pre-trial. There were a few other unrelated things they included too.
The judge indicated the shirt’s admissibility would be argued if it came up in trial, which it never did. It’s testing had been messed up and the prosecution had plenty of other evidence to convict AM.

The gyro-meta data from the phone was also crucial.. to show that he moved around and was not exactly where he said he was during parts of the murder.

 

[Willow Knight]

You can follow Norse mythology and identify with ODIN without being an 'Odinist.'

Norse Mythology | Overview, Religion & Tales - Lesson | Study.com

Explore the topic of Norse Mythology. Learn about the myths and traditions in this polytheistic religion, as well as the gods and giants in its...

study.com

Thank you @katydid23 This is appreciated, you took the time to research, especially when Odinist are playing a big part of the chatter in this case.

Your statement regarding how a person can follow Norse myth without being an Odinist is right on target.

If I may give an example that could help others understand. I am pagan and enjoy Egyptian mythology. It's possible some may refer to me as a Kemetic Pagan. My home is filled with symbols of Isis, Osiris, Horus, and Hathor. Friends of all paths comment that my home is warm and inviting.

Now, following these conclusions of guards wearing the Odin patch really touched home for me. When people meet me in public they would be truthful should they state I always wear a Celtic Knot. Necklace, earrings, rings, etc. The Celtic Knot is an Irish and Scottish symbol.

I refer to myself as Pagan. With all this said, I want to go on record stating I do NOT support the display of "religious" symbols on a government uniform.

Justice for Libby and Abby

 

[Jurisprudence]

Indiana Attorney General Brief in Response.pdf

drive.google.com

primarily an attack on procedural grounds, similar to previous response by respondent (they didn't follow procedure, you can't rule on this); substantively right to choose counsel not absolute (not accurate where the relationship has been fully formed imo, but irrelevant regardless once they entered as private counsel) jmo

 

[Jurisprudence]

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Gull

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner In case you want these:
23S-OR-00311

11/27/2023	Document Filed Indiana Attorney General's (Brief in) Response to Relator Richard Allen's Petition for a Writ of Mandamus Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/27/23 Attorney: Sanchez, Angela Party: State of Indiana File Stamp: 11/27/2023
11/27/2023	Brief - Respondent Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/27/23 Attorney: Stake, Christopher S. Attorney: Gutwein, Matthew R Party: Gull, Frances M. Cutino File Stamp: 11/27/2023

 

[Jurisprudence]

Gull's Brief in Opposition to Verified Petition for Writ of Mandamus.pdf

drive.google.com

Gull access via google drive

 

[FrostedGlass]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
So there was really nothing unexpected in today's filings. IMO
How long will it take the SC to decide to do something?

 

[Jurisprudence]

So there was really nothing unexpected in today's filings. IMO
How long will it take the SC to decide to do something?

Hopefully quick. Depends if Cara asks for leave to file a reply or not and if so whether its even granted. They may have enough with the filings and transcripts they have and deny any request to file a reply. Time is of the essence in this case though imo.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hopefully quick. Depends if Cara asks for leave to file a reply or not and if so whether its even granted. They may have enough with the filings and transcripts they have and deny any request to file a reply. Time is of the essence in this case though imo.

If there are more filings with this case, do you think they will go ahead and rule on 23S-OR-00302?

 

[Jurisprudence]

If there are more filings with this case, do you think they will go ahead and rule on 23S-OR-00302?

Don't recall the case #s. But, if you are referring to the docket case/public access and CCS, yes, I think they will dispense with that one.

jmo though (because they can do anything they want)

 

[legalmomma]

Delphi judge, Indiana AG argue Supreme Court should not decide on removing judge, reinstating Richard Allen's original defense team

Civil attorneys Mark K. Leeman and Cara Schaefer Wieneke filed the brief "to ensure that, going forward, Richard Allen receives his fundamental right to counsel."

www.wthr.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So remind me….is there going to be a SCOIN hearing, or are they just going to rule on what they’ve got?

 

[Seph]

Hey y'all,

I'm your new resident expert on Odinism. My name is Lauren Crow, and I am the president and CEO of The Troth, the largest international Germanic and Norse Pagan in the world. I have been on Websleuths as well as Murder Sheet and Court TV.

I am also a historian of modern Paganism.

What questions do you have?

 

[Ravenmoon]

Hey y'all,

I'm your new resident expert on Odinism. My name is Lauren Crow, and I am the president and CEO of The Troth, the largest international Germanic and Norse Pagan in the world. I have been on Websleuths as well as Murder Sheet and Court TV.

I am also a historian of modern Paganism.

What questions do you have?

Do you have an opinion or insight on reasons that LE or Veterans would wear Odin patches or clothing?
Is it considered stolen Valor for anyone outside of Odinism to wear them?

Thank you for being here and for answering our questions!

 

[Gemmie]

I have a question @Seph. But first... thank you for being here and talking our questions!! This is awesome.

You likely won't be able to answer this if you're not aware of what was in the memorandum about the apparent rituals (the blood-letting, staging, laying of sticks, etc.).

My question is... with what all that was done to those 2 girls, plus the length of time it took to corral the girls from the bridge to the area they were found (in what is thought to be ~1 hr 17 minutes)... do you think it's possible for 1 person to do all that was done in that short amount of time? Or does it sound more like a 2, (or 3 or 4) man job?

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Thank you.

 

[katydid23]

Hey y'all,

I'm your new resident expert on Odinism. My name is Lauren Crow, and I am the president and CEO of The Troth, the largest international Germanic and Norse Pagan in the world. I have been on Websleuths as well as Murder Sheet and Court TV.

I am also a historian of modern Paganism.

What questions do you have?

In your experience, does the theory set forth by the defense team in the Delphi case, that a cult of male Odinists sacrificed Libby and Abby in the forest, and framed an innocent man for the murders, sound plausible?

That is the question in a nutshell.

Have you read their description of the defense theory, which blames Odinism?

 

[acutename]

Attorney Shay Hughes does a deep dive into the Westerman charge;
here is just one comment. There's more at his link.

Shay Hughes@publicdefender_
Mitch Westerman was charged w/ 1 count of conversion. The PC affidavit states Westerman “used his cellular phone to take photographs of photographs, which were in Baldwin’s conference room area.” For conversion, the State must prove beyond a reasonable doubt 1) Westerman 2) knowingly or intentionally 3) exerted unauthorized control 4) over property of Baldwin.

But I’m having trouble coming to the conclusion that such conduct even amounts to conversion. “Exert control over property” means to obtain, take, carry, drive, lead away, conceal, abandon, sell, convey, encumber, or possess property, or to secure, transfer, or extend a right to property. Absent from this definition is any act resembling photography. Given such an act is not addressed w/ the definition, there are related issues regarding intent.

Moreover, I could not locate any Indiana authority in support of the State’s theory of prosecution. Nevertheless, in the context of a vehicle, the Court of Appeals held that mere presence as a passenger in a stolen car did not constitute control to support a conviction for conversion. Irvin v. State, 501 NE2d 1139, 1142 (Ind. Ct. App. 1986). More specifically, the court rejected the State’s argument that occupying space inside the vehicle constitutes control. Thus, if occupying property does not constitute control, it logically follows that taking a photo of property also does not constitute control. #RichardAllen #Delphi #DelphiMurders
9:32 PM · Nov 22, 2023
1,577 Views

https://twitter.com/x/status/1727515489910341912

he did transfer the images to others... which does convey and transfer... in a way...

 

[Seph]

Do you have an opinion or insight on reasons that LE or Veterans would wear Odin patches or clothing?
Is it considered stolen Valor for anyone outside of Odinism to wear them?

Thank you for being here and for answering our questions!

Why does a Christian wear a cross? Why does a Muslim woman wear a hijab? Why does a Wiccan wear a pentacle? It is an expression of their faith.

If that patch alone was evidence enough to find someone guilty, I know a dozen members of our military who have them on their bags and personal gear. Many of them are amazing people.

Odin is seen as a god of warriors, of those who protect the community. It makes sense someone who works in a jail would pray to them for protection.

In your experience, does the theory set forth by the defense team in the Delphi case, that a cult of male Odinists sacrificed Libby and Abby in the forest, and framed an innocent man for the murders, sound plausible?

That is the question in a nutshell.

Have you read their description of the defense theory, which blames Odinism?

I have read all the documents. I am skeptical because none of the elements are really seen in Norse Paganism. If they had found the bodies in a lake (historical practice) or buried with other goods (also historical practice) then maybe? But the fact is this all seems like 1980's Satanic Panic with a Viking paint job.

Also, one huge difference - Asatru and Odinism are different. Odinism is a prison gang that uses religion to cover their organizing. Asatru is a religion, although a majority of people who claim Asatru are of the belief only white people can be Asatru.

And Odinite? That's a rock

 

[Seph]

I have a question @Seph. But first... thank you for being here and talking our questions!! This is awesome.

You likely won't be able to answer this if you're not aware of what was in the memorandum about the apparent rituals (the blood-letting, staging, laying of sticks, etc.).

My question is... with what all that was done to those 2 girls, plus the length of time it took to corral the girls from the bridge to the area they were found (in what is thought to be ~1 hr 17 minutes)... do you think it's possible for 1 person to do all that was done in that short amount of time? Or does it sound more like a 2, (or 3 or 4) man job?

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Thank you.

I have read the documents.

I am sadly not an expert on any of that. I can only talk about the religious aspects