IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[Emma Peel]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

IIRC, on Feb 15th along with the photo, there was a immediate request from LE for any folks on the trail that day to contact police. (not a tipline) RA responded to that request. JMHO

 

[TL4S]

IIRC, on Feb 15th along with the photo, there was a immediate request from LE for any folks on the trail that day to contact police. (not a tipline) RA responded to that request. JMHO

That would make more sense...

 

[Emma Peel]

That would make more sense...

yes.
Still, your comments are relevant as (again IIRC) the BG photo was published to public the same day as that request for trail-goers to contact police - Feb 15. JMHO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Snip from the linked article:
New Tip Line has been setup for information regarding deaths of Liberty Germa & Abigail Williams. Number is 844-459-5786.
— Sgt. Kim Riley (@ISPLafayette) February 16, 2017

2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

Two bodies found about a mile from theMononHigh Bridge on Monday have been identified as the missing Carroll County teens.

www.wrtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

I'd like to add your info that I put in red to my notes.
I couldn't find it in the article you posted.
If it's from another source, would you please provide the link?

 

[somequestions]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

I did not know if he went to the conservation officer to speak until before or after the photograph was released. I thought a few others on here said he spoke to the conservation officer before the photograph of bridge guy was released so the information is confusing to understand.

I still find it a bit strange to go any type of LE officer because if LE are asking to speak to someone from a photograph or video or audio recording, the implication is that LE does not know who it is. They cannot identify that person. Sometimes I think people think in their opinion that since he said he went out to the first platform on the Monon High Bridge, therefore he must be the person in the video taken by Liberty German's phone. In my opinion, this is not fact, even with his positioning on the trail and the bridge when the girls were walking towards the bridge.

But since he confessed to the crime multiple times, then I guess it must be him.

 

[sunshineray]

I did not know if he went to the conservation officer to speak until before or after the photograph was released. I thought a few others on here said he spoke to the conservation officer before the photograph of bridge guy was released so the information is confusing to understand.

I still find it a bit strange to go any type of LE officer because if LE are asking to speak to someone from a photograph or video or audio recording, the implication is that LE does not know who it is. They cannot identify that person. Sometimes I think everyone implies that since he said he went out to the first platform on the Monon High Bridge, therefore he must be the person in the video taken by Liberty German's phone. In my opinion, this is not fact, even with his positioning on the trail and the bridge when the girls were walking towards the bridge.

But since he confessed to the crime multiple times, then I guess it must be him.

He positioned himself on that bridge. The you have his numerous confessions to two family members. If those confessions are clearly transcribed as admissions to the murders, added to his Oct 22 interview admissions, quite damning evidence. AJMO

 

[Emma Peel]

That would make more sense...

For some date support:
Here's a link to RL's 11-page (2nd) search warrant from March 2017 - that states Feb 15th as being the date the photo from the video on Ls phone was provided to the public.

FBI Search Warrant and Affidavit for Search Warrant of Ron Logan’s Property.pdf

In retrospect it's interesting to revisit this search warrant for a variety of things from the early days ...

The 6 foot RL was considered to be consistent with stature to BG in height and heavy-setness ... for the purposes of this SW. They also suggest RL's voice is "not inconsistent" with BG's recorded voice.

No found bullet casing from crime scene mentioned (although that can be held back of course here given the crime scene was on RL's property).

Regardless, BG has a long history of being a dude with amazingly flexible height and stature and age and hair ... IMO.

JMHO

 

[TL4S]

For some date support:
Here's a link to RL's 11-page (2nd) search warrant from March 2017 - that states Feb 15th as being the date the photo from the video on Ls phone was provided to the public.

FBI Search Warrant and Affidavit for Search Warrant of Ron Logan’s Property.pdf

In retrospect it's interesting to revisit this search warrant for a variety of things from the early days ...

The 6 foot RL was considered to be consistent with stature to BG in height and heavy-setness ... for the purposes of this SW. They also suggest RL's voice is "not inconsistent" with BG's recorded voice.

No found bullet casing from crime scene mentioned (although that can be held back of course here given the crime scene was on RL's property).

Regardless, BG has a long history of being a dude with amazingly flexible height and stature and age IMO.

JMHO

"for the purposes of this SW..."

This is something to remember in regards to all SW affidavits, IMO, including the one on RA. They are written with the express purpose of showing probable cause in regards to that specific person/place. What bothers me about the RL affidavit not mentioning the unspent round is that it suggests the round was not considered key evidence to the crime scene, IMO. Even if there might be expectation for an unspent round from RL's gun to be found on RL's property, if LE thought that particular unspent round was key to putting the criminal at the end of the bridge with the girls, with a .40 caliber gun, then it should have been included in the affidavit as reason to collect firearms. Was the "gun" mention in L's video known about yet? Why wasn't that in the affidavit?

Add to that the fact that BMcD had several LE sources tell her they weren't even sure if the bullet belonged to the killer, and maybe even came from LE, then it starts to appear like the unspent round evidence is malleable. JMO.

 

[Emma Peel]

"for the purposes of this SW..."

This is something to remember in regards to all SW affidavits, IMO, including the one on RA. They are written with the express purpose of showing probable cause in regards to that specific person/place. What bothers me about the RL affidavit not mentioning the unspent round is that it suggests the round was not considered key evidence to the crime scene, IMO. Even if there might be expectation for an unspent round from RL's gun to be found on RL's property, if LE thought that particular unspent round was key to putting the criminal at the end of the bridge with the girls, with a .40 caliber gun, then it should have been included in the affidavit as reason to collect firearms. Was the "gun" mention in L's video known about yet? Why wasn't that in the affidavit? Did RL even own any .40 calibers?

Add to that the fact that BMcD had several LE sources tell her they weren't even sure if the bullet belonged to the killer, and maybe even came from LE, then it starts to appear like the unspent round evidence is malleable. JMO.

Now that you mention it ... it is interesting to see how this FBI SW seems more developed than the RA one ... and still, as you point out, no mention of the casing.

Like the malleable BG image ... is the unspent round similarly malleable? JMHO.

 

[photographer4]

They (DC??) said, they had so much evidence, they only would need just the name - if I remember well. You can hardly believe it, especially since they drove us crazy (and still do) with 2 different BG faces: OBG and YBG. So they need perhaps two names to put the puzzle together, with all their evidence pointing to these two?

LE *also* said they thought they'd have this solved within a short period of time given the evidence and something about if you'd been an investigator in the 60's using only those tools available back then, they thought it would be solved in the first couple of days. R.I says it in this video - and expresses surprise that as of the time of this video being created, it hadn't yet been solved.

They must surely have something that should have helped them solve it quickly, and they just... couldn't do it. So what did they have / do they have then?!? Is it the single unspent bullet or what??

 

[photographer4]

A lot, IMO. I believe there may have been photo id's and even in-person lineups done where the witnesses picked RA as the man they saw that day. Of course, we'll never hear anything about this until trial because of the gag order.

That's what I mean about us not knowing anything really about all of the States evidence. Only the salacious Memo in response to the Franks Hearing request.

JMO

Did witnesses pick him out of a line up BEFORE or AFTER his arrest because at that point, his image was all over all the news media everywhere. If they did use this method, I hope it was right before they arrested him.

 

[photographer4]

In AB's response that I've linked more than a few times, he said MW was not working for him at the time (ex employee/friend) and he did not give authority for MW to take and distribute the photos.

May have been an ex-employee, but clearly they were still friendly enough for MW to drop by the office for some reason....

 

[photographer4]

My understanding is MW worked with AB from 2015-2017, in AB’s law firm.

If I were involved in MW's case as a prosecutor? I'd ask how they met, and when and why did he stop working for AB? I'd ask if he had a PI license as well. *IF* he was hired by them as a PI, we aren't allowed to know that detail thanks to JG's gag order that sealed the outcome of the D's motion on that matter. But nothing stops him from answering if he has a PI license to anyone, does it?

I'd then consider whether his leak was meant to incite other suspects to act in one way or another that might cause them to reveal themselves in some way to someone else (eg: to an undercover officer or someone else somehow involved as a suspect or investigator on this case). Even if AB didn't ask him to do this, and had no knowledge of this as something MW was planning to do to assist the case, it does make one wonder what his end goal was when he took the evidence photos and forwarded them, doesn't it? If this was the plan, then it doesn't appear to have ended well for him, does it? Imagine if that was the plan and it *did* draw someone out of the woodwork? He'd be a hometown hero if that person's involvement could be proven, wouldn't he? Could he also then have collected the reward $$ if his actions led to a conviction?

What does it mean that someone in receipt of leaked information killed himself if anything? There is no way for us know whether that was connected to the leak or entirely random, or a follow up action to years of mental health issues - but it doesn't seem random that the suicide followed the police investigation into the leak, does it?

I believe there is more to this leak story and I for one want to hear the entire story!!

 

[TL4S]

Now that you mention it ... it is interesting to see how this FBI SW seems more developed than the RA one ... and still, as you point out, no mention of the casing.

Like the malleable BG image ... is the unspent round similarly malleable? JMHO.

In all fairness, one month into the investigation, LE likely didn't have all the witness, vehicle, camera, and other evidence fully gathered and analysed, so it's hard to compare the RL affidavit to the RA one. RL's felt like it was based on homicide investigation experience and maybe some profiling, and being from an FBI agent, that could well be. All the same, the level of violence and oddness is so incongruous to what we know of RA, albeit in reality, that is very little.

I think about this...on Feb. 17th, BB sat down with an artist and YBG sketch was created. She told LE she had seen a light-colored '65 Comet, like her father's, parked at the CPS lot. So at that point, LE might have thought they were looking for a clean shaven young man with poofy hair, driving a '65 Comet. DD surely had no reason to suspect 5'4", lightly bearded, graying, shaved-haired RA driving a 2016 black Ford Focus.

Days later, LE was looking at 6 foot, overweight, dark-haired 20-something catfisher KAK. Another month and they are looking at 6 foot, 77 year old RL. I don't think they took BB's statement very seriously...

Yet, now her evidence is key to putting RA on the bridge, her statements about his looks and the car were omitted from the PCA (I think to make her statements more credible), the unspent round evidence is suddenly important, and JG isn't even willing to allow a suppression hearing.

It's concerning to me how they got from Point A to Point B. Even if RA is guilty, this concerns me. JMO.

 

[photographer4]

He was not “employed” per say. However, in Brad Rozzi’s affidavit dated 10/12 he states:

Andy communicated to me that Mitch was a fairly skilled strategist and he would sometimes communicate ideas and circumstances with Mitch to get his feedback. Andy reported that he did this, on occasion, in this case.

At no time did Andy ever authorize Mitch to duplicate or take physical possession of any exhibits or documentation in this case.

So this leads me to believe that AB was collaborating with MW on this case ( perhaps via electronic communication and face to face) and had allowed MW access to the exhibits and documentation.
By stating that MW did not have authorization to physically take or duplicate the documents still leaves a gray area open for what may have occurred. We know he didn’t physically take the photos of the crime scene. But did he “duplicate”?
While I am not defending MW. I think his actions were disgusting and ego driven. I think he should be charged with possession and distribution for his actions. I just feel AB’s poor judgement and negligent practices set the scene for this to occur.

I'd like to know - when did BR first know that MW was consulting on the case exactly? Was the before the leak was discovered or only after that happened?

 

[photographer4]

man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

I’d like to know why this witness thought he looked like he was in a fight. What caused her to form that belief? Just muddy clothes? Dishevelled? Did he appear to be bleeding?

It’s a very vivid description and to me it conjures up injuries and ripped clothes.

I hope she was asked to explain the comment.

Black eye? Hair in a state of chaos? Wild looking eyes?

 

[photographer4]

bbm
And IF the witnessed man had a fight really?? Not with victims, but at the crime scene, with another male person? Have we thought about this yet?

I certainly thought of this before and probably mentioned it in one of the threads somewhere along the line! If there was evidence of a scuffle between two men at the scene, that would certainly be interesting to know! I still want to know, what sort of evidence did they have at the scene that made Ives think this would be solved quickly!?!?

 

[photographer4]

Wow, I had never seen this before about RA not calling in until after the tip line was released. I always figured he likely called LE before the bridge photo release, and well before the bridge guy became the official suspect. Thanks for posting that.

It has always bothered me that if RA is the killer, then he carried out the crimes knowing full well that he had been seen by multiple witnesses on the trail, especially because of his public job. I can understand the idea of him wanting to get ahead of the girls identifying him, but since he tipped in himself after BG became the suspect, that seems awfully risky to volunteer himself on the trail, near the bridge, all at exactly the time when the murders occurred, and knowing that if he admitted seeing the girls, they might identify his clothes matching BG. IMO, I would have taken the risk of the girls never recognizing me and kept my mouth shut.

And that is precisely one of the reasons I'm not convinced of RA's guilt here. Even though he "confessed" to his people on the phone, I'm not convinced. I need solid evidence here!

 

[photographer4]

Interesting that no one ever came forward and said I was the guy walking on 300 N that day. Of course, that’s because LE never released that they had a witness who saw that person. Releasing this information early on could have clarified a lot.
That being said, that information did come out shortly after RA’s arrest and no one has still yet to come forward to identify themselves as the wet and muddy possibly bloody guy.

Also a very good point!