IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[mrjitty]

RSBBM

MW's affidavit says otherwise.
(where MW swears he had no permission from AB, and that AB had no knowledge what MW was doing w/ crime scene evidence). JMHO.

To be precise MW only says AB did not give permission for taking of photos of the crime scene photos.

So technically cyber sleuths theory isn’t ruled out by what MW said.

It seems a narrow point but I do wonder if the affidavit is not intentionally drafted to leave open some of these possibilities when it would have been easy to close them.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

In AB's response that I've linked more than a few times, he said MW was not working for him at the time (ex employee/friend) and he did not give authority for MW to take and distribute the photos.

He was not “employed” per say. However, in Brad Rozzi’s affidavit dated 10/12 he states:

Andy communicated to me that Mitch was a fairly skilled strategist and he would sometimes communicate ideas and circumstances with Mitch to get his feedback. Andy reported that he did this, on occasion, in this case.

At no time did Andy ever authorize Mitch to duplicate or take physical possession of any exhibits or documentation in this case.

So this leads me to believe that AB was collaborating with MW on this case ( perhaps via electronic communication and face to face) and had allowed MW access to the exhibits and documentation.
By stating that MW did not have authorization to physically take or duplicate the documents still leaves a gray area open for what may have occurred. We know he didn’t physically take the photos of the crime scene. But did he “duplicate”?
While I am not defending MW. I think his actions were disgusting and ego driven. I think he should be charged with possession and distribution for his actions. I just feel AB’s poor judgement and negligent practices set the scene for this to occur.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

My understanding is MW worked with AB from 2015-2017, in AB’s law firm.

I believe he worked until 2021 per his interview with MS.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

To be precise MW only says AB did not give permission for taking of photos of the crime scene photos.

So technically cyber sleuths theory isn’t ruled out by what MW said.

It seems a narrow point but I do wonder if the affidavit is not intentionally drafted to leave open some of these possibilities when it would have been easy to close them.

I was just saying this in a longer way.

 

[mrjitty]

He was not “employed” per say. However, in Brad Rozzi’s affidavit dated 10/12 he states:

Andy communicated to me that Mitch was a fairly skilled strategist and he would sometimes communicate ideas and circumstances with Mitch to get his feedback. Andy reported that he did this, on occasion, in this case.

At no time did Andy ever authorize Mitch to duplicate or take physical possession of any exhibits or documentation in this case.

So this leads me to believe that AB was collaborating with MW on this case ( perhaps via electronic communication and face to face) and had allowed MW access to the exhibits and documentation.
By stating that MW did not have authorization to physically take or duplicate the documents still leaves a gray area open for what may have occurred. We know he didn’t physically take the photos of the crime scene. But did he “duplicate”?
While I am not defending MW. I think his actions were disgusting and ego driven. I think he should be charged with possession and distribution for his actions. I just feel AB’s poor judgement and negligent practices set the scene for this to occur.

IMO your theory here is what Judge Gull believes happened.

 

[mrjitty]

I was just saying this in a longer way.

Yep.

I do believe there is an alternate explanation and that is that AB knew he was waiting in that room, and that is why they couldn’t go hard in court about him sneaking in and stealing stuff. AB knew he saw the stuff because MW waited in the room for him just like it says in the affidavit. If AB never knew he was in the room it would have said that IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you, you’re right it started with MW (allegedly).

MW-RF-MRC. MW allegedly sent them to RF (died from suicide, from Indiana), who allegedly sent them to MRC (a man from Texas who allegedly spread them everywhere/to Podcasters). Why doesn’t the MW affidavit say MW sent them to anyone else? He admits that he was in AB’s office and took a picture of the pictures without AB’s knowledge, but he never says he sent them to anyone else. JMO that’s a bit weird, right? Does it only matter he took them from AB’s office but not that he gave them to someone who allegedly gave them to MRC, who spread them everywhere, allegedly?

Why isn’t MRC being prosecuted? Why is MS acting like MRC did nothing wrong? We can’t ask RF anything since he has passed.

Why does MW want a jury trial?? I don’t know any of these answers but I’m curious.

IMO the weird part is he gave that affidavit at all as it admits a potential crime. So I don’t find it odd that it’s bare bones. I think it has been carefully drafted to admit just one narrow thing and he didn’t want to admit anything else.

 

[Jade]

The strange part to me is that after crossing the creek I would expect that Richard Allen would be wet and muddy with trying to get up the bank on the other side of the creek. This would help make him stand out more to witnesses.

But what is really strange is that after the crime he went to walk along 300 N back to his car, then once approaching the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera, crossed back into the woods to walk along the trail while at the same time possibly leap frogging Liberty German's father and the flannel shirt guy that had arrived and were walking towards the Monon High Bridge. I do not understand why Richard Allen would go back into the woods to the trail to avoid the surveillance camera anyway unless he thought the camera could pick up his profile image and determine he was muddy and wet?

The theory then is that Richard Allen was trying to avoid being caught by the surveillance camera at the Hoosier Harvest Store. Yet did he really talk to the conservation officer before the images of bridge guy came out from Liberty German's phone? Or was it after? Did he know Liberty German had recorded him with her phone anyway?

If it was after then maybe he was trying to cover himself once he knew there was a picture of him and provide a story. If the answer is before, then like so many things in the Delphi case, that makes no sense. Are there any human witnesses who can state they saw Richard Allen after the crime muddy and wet walking back towards where his car was parked(other than a woman driving by who he could not have been sure would report it)?

I know Richard Allen had some allegations of making sexual remarks to women at one of his previous jobs.
Maybe it is possible he wanted to commit a crime like this and saw the opportunity there that day?

But based on the evidence released so far(to the public) it does not seem like there is much evidence against him to suggest he is the Delphi killer. Yet he confessed to the crime multiple times after being arrested so it looks like police arrested the right man. It doesn't make any sense.

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

 

[mrjitty]

How the heck do we have a tip not signed or dated by anyone! In such an important investigation! Do we even know who Dulin turned his tip narrative into, or when? Why has he been unable to locate the recording? What did he record it on?!

This will all come out at trial or maybe in a pre trial evidentiary motion IMO. The defence will certainly try to attack the reliability of this exhibit.

 

[mrjitty]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

I’d like to know why this witness thought he looked like he was in a fight. What caused her to form that belief? Just muddy clothes? Dishevelled? Did he appear to be bleeding?

It’s a very vivid description and to me it conjures up injuries and ripped clothes.

I hope she was asked to explain the comment.

 

[Emma Peel]

Yep.

I do believe there is an alternate explanation and that is that AB knew he was waiting in that room, and that is why they couldn’t go hard in court about him sneaking in and stealing stuff. AB knew he saw the stuff because MW waited in the room for him just like it says in the affidavit. If AB never knew he was in the room it would have said that IMO.

The investigation submitted 250 pages of evidence with 5 hours (IIRC) of videotaped interviews.
AB is a witness, per court submission that is public on the Westerman docket.

The answer to many questions is likely in that evidence. Which was ... my original point. LOL

 

[photographer4]

So many questions.
Questions a level above the 3 leak-a-teers:

Who decided to have LE investigate, what was investigated, was the investigation broad or limited, who decided who would be charged with what and why, and who decided who would not be charged?

my 2nd Postulation (JMO MOO) on why Westerman wants a trial:
Perhaps Westerman (legal experienced) wants a trial b/c the real story is bigger than him and he feels that the trial process is the only way to get the full leak evidence - the full story - on the record?

This is also something I wondered about! Could there be more to the story and MW wants it out and on the record?! What might he know that we do not? Was the "leak" intentional? If so, why? For who's benefit?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

IMO the weird part is he gave that affidavit at all as it admits a potential crime. So I don’t find it odd that it’s bare bones. I think it has been carefully drafted to admit just one narrow thing and he didn’t want to admit anything else.

I’m not even sure it’s admission of a crime punishable under Indiana law.
I appreciate everyone allowing me to speculate.
I am hoping more comes to light in upcoming months.

 

[TL4S]

IMO the weird part is he gave that affidavit at all as it admits a potential crime. So I don’t find it odd that it’s bare bones. I think it has been carefully drafted to admit just one narrow thing and he didn’t want to admit anything else.

My own thought on this is that MW made a crappy choice to take and share those images, obviously, but I don't think it was with the intention of leaking them into an open market. I think he meant to share it with one person, R, who unfortunately decided to run with it. We all know how badly everything broke down after that.

IMO, AB bounced strategy ideas off of MW, and while a lot of folks tough talk that behavior, I have not seen it determined, beyond laymen speculation, whether that was actually against any rules. Bouncing ideas off someone, who likely had some level of access to the photos because of this arrangement, might not make AB criminal in any way, so maybe MW has enough decency to not want AB to have to take the fall for his own crappy choice. Signing the affidavit might just reflect that decency, and some sorrow for how badly things broke down, especially for R. But that doesn't mean he can't try to fight the charges, at the same time. IDK. JMO.

 

[FromGermany1]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

bbm
And IF the witnessed man had a fight really?? Not with victims, but at the crime scene, with another male person? Have we thought about this yet?

 

[mrjitty]

My own thought on this is that MW made a crappy choice to take and share those images, obviously, but I don't think it was with the intention of leaking them into an open market. I think he meant to share it with one person, R, who unfortunately decided to run with it. We all know how badly everything broke down after that.

IMO, AB bounced strategy ideas off of MW, and while a lot of folks tough talk that behavior, I have not seen it determined, beyond laymen speculation, whether that was actually against any rules. Bouncing ideas off someone, who likely had some level of access to the photos because of this arrangement, might not make AB criminal in any way, so maybe MW has enough decency to not want AB to have to take the fall for his own crappy choice. Signing the affidavit might just reflect that decency, and some sorrow for how badly things broke down, especially for R. But that doesn't mean he can't try to fight the charges, at the same time. IDK. JMO.

I mean there are pretty clear rules about disclosing client confidential info. I also wonder if his biggest risk is getting sued by the families.

 

[TL4S]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

Wow, I had never seen this before about RA not calling in until after the tip line was released. I always figured he likely called LE before the bridge photo release, and well before the bridge guy became the official suspect. Thanks for posting that.

It has always bothered me that if RA is the killer, then he carried out the crimes knowing full well that he had been seen by multiple witnesses on the trail, especially because of his public job. I can understand the idea of him wanting to get ahead of the girls identifying him, but since he tipped in himself after BG became the suspect, that seems awfully risky to volunteer himself on the trail, near the bridge, all at exactly the time when the murders occurred, and knowing that if he admitted seeing the girls, they might identify his clothes matching BG. IMO, I would have taken the risk of the girls never recognizing me and kept my mouth shut.

 

[sunshineray]

IMO your theory here is what Judge Gull believes happened.

And if AB did that and MW was not given a non-disclosure form to sign not to share the discovery he was given access to, IMO, that's against not only attorney ethics but the law. AJMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’d like to know why this witness thought he looked like he was in a fight. What caused her to form that belief? Just muddy clothes? Dishevelled? Did he appear to be bleeding?

It’s a very vivid description and to me it conjures up injuries and ripped clothes.

I hope she was asked to explain the comment.

Interesting that no one ever came forward and said I was the guy walking on 300 N that day. Of course, that’s because LE never released that they had a witness who saw that person. Releasing this information early on could have clarified a lot.
That being said, that information did come out shortly after RA’s arrest and no one has still yet to come forward to identify themselves as the wet and muddy possibly bloody guy.

 

[sunshineray]

RA called into the tip line “soon after it was released”. The tip line was released on February 23.

February 15 is the release a photo of man on the trail they would like to speak to.

Febuary 19 ISP says the man in the photo is official suspect

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

RA with a public facing job in a small town was getting ahead of any possible identification by the girls or others of him on the trail, imo.

I’m interested in who else he told he was there and had been in the very spot of the start of the crime.

Wet and muddy is subjective. If he were carrying a pole and stringer I’d figured he slid down the bank in the mud into the water.

But the man was described as muddy and possibly bloody looking like he’d been in a fight.

He probably didn’t realize he looked so muddy/bloody.

Down the hill and across hidden under the bridge and on.

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

Take a 360-degree walk along the Monon High Bridge, the last place Delphi's Daughters Libby & Abby were seen alive.

www.wrtv.com

These sort of things never make sense.
Strange guys strange crimes


imo

LE waited 9-10 days after the murders to set up a tip line? That can't be right?