IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[Ravenmoon]

November 22nd, 2022 the state asks for a gag order. The defense refuses to go along with this because " they have no intention of trying this case in the public domain ( NOT VERBATIM)
BUT, by December 1st they are making press releases.

MW had been sharing information all along, leaking a steady flow of case information to flipping YouTubers. He had access to this stuff, and I don't care what anyone wants to spin, B and R allowed it. It was on their watch. They shared The FM with him to " bounce ideas". All the while YouTubers had their dirty hands in information about 2 innocent children that were slaughtered.
I don't think that I could be any more disgusted.


JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Isn't there some other team working the leak case? I vaguely remember that - so it may not have been McL at all.

Indiana State Police I believe

 

[girlhasnoname]

So MW is the defences strategy consultant now?

They said he was an old friend dropping by after work who snuck in and stole the materials.

Don't forget the sworn statement that AB filed by his lawyer/friend DH during the Oct 19 Judge's chambers meeting that stated AB had ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE of MW taking this information and that he (AB) was the poor victim of a friend who "SNOOKERED HIM".

There's been a lot of snookering going on and it has been done by the Defense. I hope the disbar them over this, it's warranted IMO

JMO

 

[zh0r4]

Don't forget the sworn statement that AB filed by his lawyer/friend DH during the Oct 19 Judge's chambers meeting that stated AB had ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE of MW taking this information and that he (AB)mwas the poor victim of a friend who "SNOOKERED HIM".

There's been a lot of snookering going on and it has been done by the Defense. I hope the disbar them over this, it's warranted IMO

JMO

Since BR & AB alerted the court within 24 hours of learning about the leak (per the email on record), I interpreted AB to mean he had no knowledge, as in he didn’t give MW permission. JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Since BR & AB alerted the court within 24 hours of learning about the leak (per the email on record), I interpreted AB to mean he had no knowledge, as in he didn’t give MW permission. JMO.

I agree, my reply was to someone who suggested (jokingly I think) that MW was a defense consultant now. Thanks.

 

[zh0r4]

I went back and re-read it. He doesn't say who issued the SW or when it was issued. You're right, it may not have been him.

It's confusing when MW's case is being heard in one county and and everything else is in another.

This is what I’m curious about? NM is the one who mentioned in his motion yesterday, MW’s iCloud-which is not NM’s case, and is also under a gag/protective order….so why and how would NM legally have access to someone else’s case info?

 

[zh0r4]

Yes. It’s quite possible McL has not seen the contents of the iCloud. Rather the other team has seen it and described what is in there.

Even if this is true, is he suppose to be discussing discovery related to another case which he is not the prosecutor in and which is under a protective order?

 

[zh0r4]

November 22nd, 2022 the state asks for a gag order. The defense refuses to go along with this because " they have no intention of trying this case in the public domain ( NOT VERBATIM)
BUT, by December 1st they are making press releases.

MW had been sharing information all along, leaking a steady flow of case information to flipping YouTubers. He had access to this stuff, and I don't care what anyone wants to spin, B and R allowed it. It was on their watch. They shared The FM with him to " bounce ideas". All the while YouTubers had their dirty hands in information about 2 innocent children that were slaughtered.
I don't think that I could be any more disgusted.


JMOView attachment 479373

Didn’t one of the Supreme Court justices point out the press release was before (I believe a day before) the approval of the gag order? This was in the hearing Jan 18?

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is what I’m curious about? NM is the one who mentioned in his motion yesterday, MW’s iCloud-which is not NM’s case, and is also under a gag/protective order….so why and how would NM legally have access to someone else’s case info?

It's above my pay scale.

Here is the motion for the PO. I wonder if anyone has gained a copy of it.

01/12/2024

Petition for Protection Order Filed State's Motion for PO for Discovery.pdf

01/16/2024

Order Issued Order on State's Motion for Protective Order Under Indiana Rule of Trial Procedure 26(c) entered. bg

 

[FrostedGlass]

Didn’t one of the Supreme Court justices point out the press release was before (I believe a day before) the approval of the gag order? This was in the hearing Jan 18?

McL is fussing about them verbally saying they didn't intend to try it in the press, then they put out the press release. They objected to the gag order; maybe when she decided to do it against their objection, they just decided to put it out there anyway.

 

[photographer4]

Yet it is also stupid to kill two teen girls in broad daylight in a park, and that didn't stop him.

Agree, it didn't stop someone but that doesn't mean RA was the killer or the kidnapper. I'll wait for the trial to make that determination.

 

[snooptroop88]

Why in the world would RA want this defense team back? They were at best grossly negligent, just as Gull maintained, in terms of the release of those crime scene photos, which was just beyond belief in terms of “mistakes.” That was quite a mistake. A lot of people were undoubtedly devastated by that mistake. There was that document they submitted that read like a Hollywood script, the 136-page brief tying into Odinism. This document went so Hollywood that any merits in terms of actual evidence were eclipsed by the unprofessional presentation. All of this is MOO, and I hope I do not offend with any of these comments. I truly do. I see one poster noting above that Gull should not recuse, that this defense team should be recused. 100% agreed. Whether RA wants to acknowledge it or not, it seems like Gull would have done RA a great favor by disposing of them.

And I believe that Hollywood brief came and then the evidence leak—this was when I stopped following this case as closely, knowing things were moving away from actually deciphering what happened that day to legal machinations. Yes, I completely understand those maneuverings are important, but they are now competing for center stage. What happened to the victims that day should be center stage at all times. This is Websleuths, not Weblawyers, but that comment just made is not intended as some slight against those rightly interested in the legal wranglings going on with this. They’re vitally important. But what’s more important is what happened that day to the extent it can be discovered. I care about those legal wranglings to the extent that it prevents the public from knowing what happened and to the extent that it facilitates delivery of valuable info.

Right now, I want to genuinely thank everyone on here because I used a lot of that info to skim through different sources and try to get some kind of understanding of the broader picture of what is going on here. I have no idea why RA would want these attorneys back, MOO, they did him no favors. But his defense is obviously his business, and it’s serious business. I embrace the idea that he is innocent until proven otherwise. I have moved forward at this point into looking at the weight and credibility of ballistics evidence. Also, trying to find the best interpretation on whether the “bloody” wording is still in place and of value. I do not necessarily think RA is guilty, I do not hope he is guilty. I don’t hope he's innocent, and I don't necessarily think he’s innocent, either. I just recognize he may be. This may sound a ridiculous comment by some here, but I’m going to say it anyway. This defendant doesn’t look the part to me to have done this. This of course, means nothing. But also, he has no priors. Where are they? Again, it means nothing. A defendant who “looks” some way, who has no priors—it doesn’t mean that defendant did not do it. As far as the ballistic forensic, I'm seeing 99% accurate, but I see some studies indicating far less accuracy, at like 85%. Ballistic forensics is not without flaw or error. Also, is there some explanation for how the bullet may have ended up at the scene without RA being there? And is there more than one person involved? Would a single person have been capable of doing this?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Since BR & AB alerted the court within 24 hours of learning about the leak (per the email on record), I interpreted AB to mean he had no knowledge, as in he didn’t give MW permission. JMO.

Thanks for reminding me of that email dated 10/6/23. BR states that someone forwarded communications to their staff that Rick Snay was claiming to have copies of the crime scene photos.
I wonder if this turned out to be true.

 

[zh0r4]

Thanks for reminding me of that email dated 10/6/23. BR states that someone forwarded communications to their staff that Rick Snay was claiming to have copies of the crime scene photos.
I wonder if this turned out to be true.

I’m also confused about the RS timeline-he says in one of his videos he received info from a female? Does anyone know when/what video he talks about this? I forgot he was mentioned in the 10/6 email, thank you.

 

[photographer4]

From The PCA: Page 2 I guess RA=BG did walk up on them from behind. This was in the Courts Document Dump

<snipped & BBM>

The video recovered from Victim 2's phone shows Victim1 walking southeast on the Manon High Bridge while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. "As the male subject" approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victims mentions "gun". Near the end of the video male is seen and heard telling the girls, -"Guys,Down the hill" The girls then begin to proceed do'wn the hill and the video ends. A still photograph taken from the video and the "Guys, Down the hill" audio was subsequently released to the public to assist investigators in identifying the male.

DocumentCloud

Makes me think perhaps they have a slam dunk image of him from the video - telling the girls, "down the hill" because he was "seen & heard".

 

[photographer4]

The entire dog and pony show the last few months, written and orchestrated by the defense team; was produced to deflect from their wrongdoings, which they were very aware were much worse than the public knew. They were the victims, poor things.
That mean ole judge wanted them dismissed just because she knew exactly how egregious and contemptible the defense team was. So they went after her. She was the villain in their story.
They wasted tons of time and money, not to benefit RA, but to cover their own tails.
I wonder what all their lawyer groupies are thinking today. The ones that filed briefs on B and R’s behalf and championed their cause. How do they walk it back. Would they have been so aggressive in defending them if they had known everything?
It’s disgusting.

Regardless of what they did, I'm glad they went after JG. She can't just go making up the rules as she goes along and expect everyone to deal with it. They were right to take the matter of their summary dismissal to the higher courts - RA has a legal right to the counsel of his choice, regardless if she likes it or not! I see she was well meaning in her decision, but without the hearing, no one else knew it. And her decisions since then, *do* give an *appearance* of bias against the D. They should get rid of Gull and get on with things. Deal with AB & BR via sanctions or whatever else they need to but get on with it already.

 

[photographer4]

Also to note: NMcl has never tried a murder trial in his career, he was originally a public defender. It seems like a lot of pressure for a case this huge to be the first case you prosecute. JMO.

Any first murder case is huge for any litigator on either side, but more especially for the victim's loved ones left behind.

 

[photographer4]

I finished and I won't summarize because I'm sure my bias will be showing.

Their discussion as to how LE learned of the leak was interesting and amusing. I'm glad they cleared up that the family communication to LE was about the tree and not about the photos.

Did the family know that the tree was part of the sealed evidence then? If so, how and when did they come to know it? I haven't / won't listen to MS podcast (or any podcast for that matter)... any help appreciated.

 

[O.Incandenza]

Your thoughts on the conduct?

It's more or less what I assumed it was, depending on the exact nature of the communications between Baldwin & MW. Personally, I think Baldwin's an idiot. As to whether this is sanctionable conduct on his part, probably. Just discussing the case with MW doesn't seem like a violation of the protective order to me (though it seems tremendously dumb and obviously raises privilege concerns). Sending MW the Franks Memo to review might be alright, I'd have to see the exact wording of the protective order and think it about before having a strong opinion. Sending MW the exhibits to the Franks Memo would obviously violate the order. Not sure if that happened though. The prosecution motion is quite vague about exactly what the communications consisted of and there aren't any relevant exhibits.

It definitely raises the question of whether MW was in the conference room with Baldwin's permission. But if MW denies that and Baldwin denies it, I'm not sure how you prove it. Especially since the state has charged MW with conversion, indicating that they believe he acted without authorization. Of course if Judge Gull is the one judging the sanctions motion, I don't think Baldwin is going to get any benefit of the doubt. I'm fine with that personally.

I'm not sure that much of this implicates Rozzi.

FWIW, I don't think this was an intentional leak from the defense. If you're going to intentionally leak photos in violation of a protective order and a gag order, you don't do it by having someone take pictures of your prepared exhibits which apparently had distinctive alterations (I'm assuming blurring or added graphics) and can easily be traced back to you.

But on a moral level I think Baldwin is responsible for the leak. He's the one who trusted MW. He's the one who involved him in the case. He's the one who left him alone and gave him the opportunity to take the pictures. Whether or not he's sanctioned, he should be embarrassed by what he did and what it led to.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Indeed. I hope many, many lessons are learned from this whole ordeal. Nothing can be undone, for anybody. The families, the community, LE, the legal system...nobody comes out unscathed.

I will add, even RA *an accused and not yet tried or convicted* citizen of Delphi. Even if someone were to admit to these horrific murders of these kids.. imagine the future for RA and his family.

That's why I am so pro 6th amendment. MOO