Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[sleuther0192837465]

Thank you for that article, stating Police did find Libby's phone at the crime scene.

You’re welcome

 

[tmar]

Per Websleuths rules we can’t discuss RL or his blog I really, really don’t want the thread shut down again.

Having the thread shut down for many months, due to us not following rules, was so bad, for all of us.
So we must all behave.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Familial DNA matches, especially ones involving the use of outside databases, take time.

If they were to only get a hit from a very distant relative, it would take quite a bit of research in order to close the gap.

Therefore, I don’t take this as a sign that they do not have DNA.

Well said & I agree. My question is, so far, I’ve only heard about cold cases that are being solved in this manner. Have there been any recent crimes solved like this? IMO

 

[liltexans]

Per Websleuths rules we can’t discuss RL or his blog I really, really don’t want the thread shut down again.

Correct. Blogs are not considered TOS-approved sources. If anyone wants to link a specific blog, you will need to get special permission from @Tricia BEFORE you link to a blog. The RL blog is not an approved source for this case.

 

[mpnola]

I feel like it has been so long since I stared at these pictures I feel like I knew so well. I am getting the creeped out feeling I would get in the beginning. One that I guess should always exist when looking at this case. We had soooo many really good people do such amazing work on this case. I can't believe it still seems so far from over. These babies gave us so much to work with! And still, he roams free.

Just a tiny recap, someone spliced the 3 pictures together to form movement, of sorts. It is amazing and I am so sorry that I do not remeber who that genius was. Also, Bob Saccamano did some ground maps that showed the elevation of the land. It is so good!!! You can clearly see that he corralled them into an area where 3 sides were hills and 1 side was water. He quite literally backed them into a corner, so they could not easily escape. I have no doubt that this guy is tactical and methodical and planned his attack grounds well. Which is why he was able to instruct them down the hill. He knew right where he was going. Ew, i cannot wait until this monster is caught.

 

[MassGuy]

Well said & I agree. My question is, so far, I’ve only heard about cold cases that are being solved in this manner. Have there been any recent crimes solved like this? IMO

That’s a good point. I’ve heard of recent crimes being solved with familial DNA, but that is within states that allow for criminal databases to be searched for a link (Indiana doesn’t).

So in those cases, they are looking for family members who have been convicted of crimes.

The method that was used in Golden State, was to search a genealogy database to find the link.

So in one you are looking for family members of felons, and in the other you are looking for family members in general.

The latter obviously takes more time.

This is relatively new technology, but from what I can see, has only been used to solve really cold cases, in what amounts to a last ditch effort.

 

[cluciano63]

But if they know who he is, and cannot locate him, wouldn't they have a Police Alert out to try and locate him. MOO.

Absolutely they would.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Absolutely they would.

I have to disagree. If they are still saying they need more evidence to prove it (begging that one person to come forward) that tells me they do not have enough to convict...yet. They couldn’t hold this person on the basis of a grainy photo & a voice. They need something solid or BG could slip away. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip - removed quoted post>

<modsdnip - blogs are not TOS-approved sources> and was actually able to track down the posting here on WS as well. From Thread #4. And wow, it's a very good match, IMO.

Imaged re-attached below.

Yes, that's the green outline I was talking about but I couldn't find the picture! Thanks! Some are convinced that is a gun in his pocket, and his hand is right near it so he would have been able to pull it out quickly... jmo

 

[Faith0263]

Ever since I read about what she did, I put my camera and voice recorder app next to each other on the home screen of my phone. I think of them often.

It was on redditt I believe. She was thinking on her feet that's for sure. The was a picture also of her as she snapped it.

 

[Faith0263]

I've never taken a selfie with my phone, but people here have said that things are reversed when you use the front camera. Wouldn't that mean that he was walking on the other side of the bridge, and all of the markers found by GH and company would be wrong. I believe she was holding the camera facing him and recorded as she put the phone in her pocket, but I'm just guessing like most of us are. I know I had tried walking in my apartment with my phone recording in my pocket and got almost identical background noise, which I had originally thought was footsteps in dead leaves. MOO

I didn't say at her waist. It was held down by her leg.

 

[Faith0263]

I hadn't heard that, I've always thought she held it down, and that's kind of how it looks from the angle. I would think over the shoulder would not be as discrete. Jmo

I didn't say over the shoulder or at her waist. You're correct msbetsy. It was held down by her leg!!!

 

[Confusion]

I didn't say at her waist. It was held down by her leg.

I think you quoted the wrong post. I didn't say anything about her waist either.

 

[cluciano63]

I have to disagree. If they are still saying they need more evidence to prove it (begging that one person to come forward) that tells me they do not have enough to convict...yet. They couldn’t hold this person on the basis of a grainy photo & a voice. They need something solid or BG could slip away. MOO

Post I replied to said if LE “ knew who he was”. If they “know” then that assumes evidence of some kind. Also, LE often has asked the public to help locate “material witnesses” in cases where they actually mean POI/suspects, i.e a spouse when the other is found dead. I doubt very much that any LE would remain quiet for nearly two years if they “knew” who murdered two children but could not locate the person. Jmo

 

[Faith0263]

I think you quoted the wrong post. I didn't say anything about her waist either.

Sorry. I've been following along and made the mistake of posting lol. You're right wrong quote. My apologies.

 

[Faith0263]

Hi Faith,

I’m just trying to keep the facts straight as we start yet another A/L thread. Do you have a MSM link to where it says Libby held the phone at her waist? According to this video with Alexis McAdams, Libby used the front camera on her cell phone and recorded over her shoulder.
Alexis McAdams on Twitter

Thanks,
RIP M+J

If you'll double check I never mentioned her waist. Thanks

 

[Gardener1850]

I didn't say at her waist. It was held down by her leg.

Hi Faith, I admit haven't followed this case very closely. So now I'm confused on what is fact and what is speculation. Are you simply speculating that was how the photo was taken? Or is there an official source for this information that the phone was held down by her leg? Could you clarify how you know this please?

 

[Gardener1850]

That’s a good point. I’ve heard of recent crimes being solved with familial DNA, but that is within states that allow for criminal databases to be searched for a link (Indiana doesn’t).

So in those cases, they are looking for family members who have been convicted of crimes.

The method that was used in Golden State, was to search a genealogy database to find the link.

So in one you are looking for family members of felons, and in the other you are looking for family members in general.

The latter obviously takes more time.

This is relatively new technology, but from what I can see, has only been used to solve really cold cases, in what amounts to a last ditch effort.

A couple new articles came out today about the website GEDmatch and the methods used to track down GSK and solve other cold cases:
How an Unlikely Family History Website Transformed Cold Case Investigations
How Genetic Sleuthing Helped a Kidnapped Girl Recover Her Identity

Both very long articles but well worth the read. I think few police departments are fully aware of these methods or how they could be used to solve cases. JMO. If they have good quality DNA for Abby and Libby's murderer, I hope they will at least give GEDmatch a try.

 

[Ozoner]

Many wonder if LE knows who it is and are just waiting for the right evidence to make the arrest. If they have DNA they could use the same method as the golden state killer and retrieve a piece of garbage, like a used tissue, to match the DNA. So without an arrest it leads me to believe they don’t know who it is.

No one who is being objective wonders that. The idea that LE knows BG's identity is silly. That is wishful thinking, pure and simple. I agree with you; it is overwhelmingly obvious that LE does not know who BG is.

Ps. I think I am one of the only few who think they either have no DNA or inconclusive/partial DNA that is of no use. Basically, IMO, based on my read of information from the past 18+ month and everything at this time, DNA can’t - or won’t- solve this crime as of now, late 2018. This could change.

I don't think you're one of the few; I think that your conclusion is the most likely one. They said that they have DNA, but so far as I know, they have never said that they have the perp's DNA. Clearly, they don't know whether the DNA that they have belongs to the perp. Not only have they not stated that they have a complete DNA profile, they haven't even said whether the DNA that they have is nuclear or mitochondrial.

 

[MsBetsy]

Hi Faith, I admit haven't followed this case very closely. So now I'm confused on what is fact and what is speculation. Are you simply speculating that was how the photo was taken? Or is there an official source for this information that the phone was held down by her leg? Could you clarify how you know this please?

There is no official report or statement by LE saying how she held the phone, that I'm aware of, it just seems to be the most common assumption according to all that I have seen when researching the case. If you look at the angle in the pictures of Libby, it is obvious that it's straight on. But the picture of the suspect is blurry and at a slight angle. It looks like she is holding the phone lower than in her other pictures, angled slightly upwards, and titlted. Since its blurry it would seem to have been taken very quickly, as if she took it out of her pocket quickly, and held it for a short time by her side without him noticing. I just think if she had taking pictures at the time, and he saw her with the phone, he would have somehow destroyed or taken it, thinking it would be evidence. This seems to be the general consensus, according to what I have read. Although I saw someone had suggested her holding it up, it just doesn't look like a straight on angle, and if she was pretending to take pictures, it would have been in better focus. Imo