Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

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Nemellotus said:
The pic is of a new nickel and an older nickel on the right.
Looks like they are sitting on a jar type lid, the kind that are white, the kind you have to twist off then you hear it pop. Like a grape juice lid.

Adding this, double nickel 5 5 can mean turning 55, and they call it the double nickel birthday.
Click to expand...

He wasn’t 55, and the mention of can’t drive 55, that song from Sammy Hagar, was where it seemed to all lead. Still weird he would take the time to put an old and new nickel in a little dish, or whatever it is, and post it on FB. At the same time, no lack of absurdity at all in what people choose to share on FB.
 
Alrighty then. It appears some members have decided to name a suspect and discuss this person's Facebook page.

I appreciate you using initials only but this is not going to fly.

If anyone suggests a member is the perp in any crime gets an automatic time out for a month.

This is why we were hesitant to open this thread up for discussion.

While reading and trying to figure out what the heck some of you were talking about all of a sudden the theme from the Twilight Zone started playing.

Of course, it is good to think outside the box. There is a difference between thinking outside the box and deciding some random person is a suspect.

This thread will be closed until one of us has a moment to clean up the craziness on the thread.

Tricia
 
liltexans said:
Please continue the discussion here. Try to stay on the topic of the Delphi murders as much as possible when discussing the possibility that TB could be BG.

General sleuthing of TB and sleuthing TB in relation to other crimes in Missouri should be done in the thread for the St. Louis store assaults and murder, which is here:

MO - St. Louis County - Man enters store, commits sexual assault and murder, 19 November 2018
Click to expand...

Thread is reopened. Bumping liltexans' guidance regarding TB. I will add:
  • Do not sleuth or accuse a fellow WS member of involvement
  • Do not sleuth family or friends of TB (personal information, SM comments, etc)
  • If your post relates to TB but not A&L, Delphi, etc. it probably doesn't belong in this thread. Here are some examples:
  • "I think this guy is a creep who lashes out when rejected by a woman" = general TB discussion, belongs in STL thread.
  • "I wonder why his social media presence was so quiet from X to Y date" = general TB discussion, belongs in STL thread.
  • "He posted on SM that he went on a trip to X, how far is that from Delphi?" = TB discussion related to this case, belongs here.
  • "In the STL case he did Z, maybe the same is true in A&L's case and that caught LE's attention" = TB discussion related to this case, belongs here.
 
Whiskers16 said:
Thread is reopened. Bumping liltexans' guidance regarding TB. I will add:
  • Do not sleuth or accuse a fellow WS member of involvement
  • Do not sleuth family or friends of TB (personal information, SM comments, etc)
  • If your post relates to TB but not A&L, Delphi, etc. it probably doesn't belong in this thread. Here are some examples:
  • "I think this guy is a creep who lashes out when rejected by a woman" = general TB discussion, belongs in STL thread.
  • "I wonder why his social media presence was so quiet from X to Y date" = general TB discussion, belongs in STL thread.
  • "He posted on SM that he went on a trip to X, how far is that from Delphi?" = TB discussion related to this case, belongs here.
  • "In the STL case he did Z, maybe the same is true in A&L's case and that caught LE's attention" = TB discussion related to this case, belongs here.
Click to expand...
Thanks for re-opening and thanks for guidance about TB discussion. Honestly, it's easy to forget what thread I'm on when discussing TB - so I'm taking this as a reminder to check the thread title before I post to make sure I'm in the right place! :)

(Looking forward to the day when the threads can be combined....wishful thinking?)

jmo
 
IF TB is BG, how soon do any of you think we will know? (I realize testing would need to be completed if there is any comparable DNA & any other investigative procedures that IN LE would need to complete.)
Also, which crime would be dealt with first? The STL crimes or Libby & Abby’s?
MOO
 
sleuther0192837465 said:
IF TB is BG, how soon do any of you think we will know? (I realize testing would need to be completed if there is any comparable DNA & any other investigative procedures that IN LE would need to complete.)
Also, which crime would be dealt with first? The STL crimes or Libby & Abby’s?
MOO
Click to expand...


It is a huge “if” for me...but if DNA matched crime scene from Delphi, LE would still need to build a case, prove he was there that day etc...DNA does not = instant arrest/conviction. So we might not even hear about it until after the current case is ready, or tried, as he would be safely in custody. But as I said for me it is such a big “if” it is hard to address at this point.
 
Hi everyone! Thank you for bringing the thread back. When BG voice was released I believed and still believe that his (BG) voice sounded like a “yinzer” speaking “Pittsburghese”. If you are unfamiliar look it up especially how people from Pittsburgh say the word “down” they say “Dahn”. I looked at TB trip advisor and wouldn’t you know he made a visit to Pittsburgh in May 2017??!. I went further and I spoke how he wrote because as any educator will tell you there is a STRONG correlation on speaking/writing. When we write it is similar to how we speak especially in his case where his grammar is off.
 
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sleuther0192837465 said:
IF TB is BG, how soon do any of you think we will know? (I realize testing would need to be completed if there is any comparable DNA & any other investigative procedures that IN LE would need to complete.)
Also, which crime would be dealt with first? The STL crimes or Libby & Abby’s?
MOO
Click to expand...

I would think any DNA connection would be back by this point.

It does seem to take a long time to connect dots in serial murders- years, even decades. Don’t know if Abby and Libby were victims of a serial killer, but it’s possible. I can’t see anything in the media anyone had a personal grudge against any girl, not that the possibility isn’t there, but it seems more likely the killer, BG, was a stranger to them both.

In other unsolved high profile murders, persons of interest appear, and sometimes are never ruled out, but as time goes by, any linkage is purely speculative and, sometimes, way out there.

The Delphi case is still current. With today’s technology, and the fast pace information is released, the public would have heard by now if this latest person of interest, who has another thread, is ruled in, so assume there is no evidence. That’s my opinion, but who knows?

Means, motive and opportunity. I keep juggling those three. There was a means (don’t know it), there was a motive (speculate, but don’t know for sure), and there was an opportunity (know it happened, but don’t know how the the crime unfolded).

I just can’t shake this case, the story, and how hard it has been on the families.

As more time goes by, facts get lost and opinions change. It’s hard to imagine a crime with so much evidence as this one has available, in the end, having no answer to means, motive, and opportunity. IMO.
 
sleuther0192837465 said:
IF TB is BG, how soon do any of you think we will know? (I realize testing would need to be completed if there is any comparable DNA & any other investigative procedures that IN LE would need to complete.)
Also, which crime would be dealt with first? The STL crimes or Libby & Abby’s?
MOO
Click to expand...

I would expect it to take quite some time as they build an airtight case. Months, at least.
 
sleuther0192837465 said:
Hello,
Not trying to spread any rumors... That is why I began with “I assumed” also why I wrote “JMO”. I apologize if I confused anyone.
I was discussing possibilities about the duffle bag. And again, JMO
Click to expand...

Hi sleuther!

My apologies for misreading your post! I probably shouldn’t be replying on here when I’m not feeling well.

~RIP M+J
 
Jabarn said:
I would think any DNA connection would be back by this point.

It does seem to take a long time to connect dots in serial murders- years, even decades. Don’t know if Abby and Libby were victims of a serial killer, but it’s possible. I can’t see anything in the media anyone had a personal grudge against any girl, not that the possibility isn’t there, but it seems more likely the killer, BG, was a stranger to them both.

In other unsolved high profile murders, persons of interest appear, and sometimes are never ruled out, but as time goes by, any linkage is purely speculative and, sometimes, way out there.

The Delphi case is still current. With today’s technology, and the fast pace information is released, the public would have heard by now if this latest person of interest, who has another thread, is ruled in, so assume there is no evidence. That’s my opinion, but who knows?

Means, motive and opportunity. I keep juggling those three. There was a means (don’t know it), there was a motive (speculate, but don’t know for sure), and there was an opportunity (know it happened, but don’t know how the the crime unfolded).

I just can’t shake this case, the story, and how hard it has been on the families.

As more time goes by, facts get lost and opinions change. It’s hard to imagine a crime with so much evidence as this one has available, in the end, having no answer to means, motive, and opportunity. IMO.
Click to expand...

It is a shame but it appears that such a poor quality video is little better than none...people have not even agreed for sure on his race, much less age, which has ranged from 40-60 in various opinions. Also his weight and height are vague. I have seen such clear images recently of various local perps, especially those stealing packages from patios...a big pastime where I live, and these people are identified very quickly. This one case, where it could have meant everything...it is a blur. :(
 
Jabarn said:
I would think any DNA connection would be back by this point.

It does seem to take a long time to connect dots in serial murders- years, even decades. Don’t know if Abby and Libby were victims of a serial killer, but it’s possible. I can’t see anything in the media anyone had a personal grudge against any girl, not that the possibility isn’t there, but it seems more likely the killer, BG, was a stranger to them both.

In other unsolved high profile murders, persons of interest appear, and sometimes are never ruled out, but as time goes by, any linkage is purely speculative and, sometimes, way out there.

The Delphi case is still current. With today’s technology, and the fast pace information is released, the public would have heard by now if this latest person of interest, who has another thread, is ruled in, so assume there is no evidence. That’s my opinion, but who knows?

Means, motive and opportunity. I keep juggling those three. There was a means (don’t know it), there was a motive (speculate, but don’t know for sure), and there was an opportunity (know it happened, but don’t know how the the crime unfolded).

I just can’t shake this case, the story, and how hard it has been on the families.

As more time goes by, facts get lost and opinions change. It’s hard to imagine a crime with so much evidence as this one has available, in the end, having no answer to means, motive, and opportunity. IMO.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Jabarn, for your response.
Just like everyone here, I have just been so hoping for Justice for the girls and their families. Hearing about TB and the similarities had really got my attention.
Libby and Abby are the reason I found (during a Google search for updates when they were reported missing) Websleuths and became a member.
I agree, I think BG was a stranger to the girls which makes it harder to solve :( This is so sad...
MOO
 
Brought this from TB's St. Louis crime thread.

gramof8 said:
Investigators pursuing Catholic Supply suspect’s possible link to other crimes
Click to expand...
snip
“We were able to obtain a buckle swab from Mr. Bruce, so that sample was processed in our local laboratory,” she said.

The DNA has been entered into the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) where it will scan against DNA from unsolved cases across the nation.

“We’ve had 500 CODIS hits so far this year in our local lab,” Campbell said.

While there’s nothing yet on Bruce, DNA is scanned through CODIS every day, which Campbell said solves more and more cases.
 
kc1023 said:
Brought this from TB's St. Louis crime thread.


snip
“We were able to obtain a buckle swab from Mr. Bruce, so that sample was processed in our local laboratory,” she said.

The DNA has been entered into the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) where it will scan against DNA from unsolved cases across the nation.

“We’ve had 500 CODIS hits so far this year in our local lab,” Campbell said.

While there’s nothing yet on Bruce, DNA is scanned through CODIS every day, which Campbell said solves more and more cases.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing that no DNA hit so far means no match to Delphi? Seems like they would zero on Delphi as a priority when looking at other unsolved cases.

Or....was there no DNA at Delphi? Do we have a definitive answer about Delphi DNA?

Checked the thread title before posting....I deleted a sentence in this post as it belongs on the other thread. Only pointing that out as a reminder to self to be mindful of the thread topic.

jmo
 
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