Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[sleuther0192837465]

I'm guessing that no DNA hit so far means no match to Delphi? Seems like they would zero on Delphi as a priority when looking at other unsolved cases.

Or....was there no DNA at Delphi? Do we have a definitive answer about Delphi DNA?

Checked the thread title before posting....I deleted a sentence in this post as it belongs on the other thread. Only pointing that out as a reminder to self to be mindful of the thread topic.

jmo

IN LE has never, not once, ever stated that they definitively have BG's DNA. Only that they have DNA & that they were processing it to see what type of DNA they DO have. This is why I get so frustrated with this case. But I do understand the need to keep things quiet. UGH! MOO
ETA: I agree with you, you would think they'd check TB's DNA against BG's DNA ASAP, right? MOO

 

[AuctionGal]

The DNA has been entered into the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) where it will scan against DNA from unsolved cases across the nation.

“We’ve had 500 CODIS hits so far this year in our local lab,” Campbell said.

While there’s nothing yet on Bruce, DNA is scanned through CODIS every day, which Campbell said solves more and more cases.

Investigators pursuing Catholic Supply suspect’s possible link to other crimes

So no hits on TB's DNA yet. Am I right in thinking that if they had DNA at the girl's crime scene that it surely would have matched right away? Not sure how CODIS works, does anyone know?

 

[TTF14]

The DNA has been entered into the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) where it will scan against DNA from unsolved cases across the nation.

“We’ve had 500 CODIS hits so far this year in our local lab,” Campbell said.

While there’s nothing yet on Bruce, DNA is scanned through CODIS every day, which Campbell said solves more and more cases.

Investigators pursuing Catholic Supply suspect’s possible link to other crimes

So no hits on TB's DNA yet. Am I right in thinking that if they had DNA at the girl's crime scene that it surely would have matched right away? Not sure how CODIS works, does anyone know?

Campbell didn't say there have been no hits, IMO. He is not quoted saying this. The author of the article said that. I don't think Campbell would tell a journalist this information either way.

 

[Inthedetails]

IN LE has never, not once, ever stated that they definitively have BG's DNA. Only that they have DNA & that they were processing it to see what type of DNA they DO have. This is why I get so frustrated with this case. But I do understand the need to keep things quiet. UGH! MOO
ETA: I agree with you, you would think they'd check TB's DNA against BG's DNA ASAP, right? MOO

Right. It's hard to make a conclusion from the info.

Could be no match because TB doesn't match Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because there is no Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because Delphi DNA not enough to make a match or degraded, etc.
Could be no match....yet.

My hunch is that if there is DNA in Delphi and it doesn't match with TB, therefore ruling him out, LE would state that. So, I still have hope he's a possibility.

jmo

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Right. It's hard to make a conclusion from the info.

Could be no match because TB doesn't match Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because there is no Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because Delphi DNA not enough to make a match or degraded, etc.
Could be no match....yet.

My hunch is that if there is DNA in Delphi and it doesn't match with TB, therefore ruling him out, LE would state that. So, I still have hope he's a possibility.

jmo

Totally agree with you, on everything you’ve said.

 

[Yvettea]

Currently there’s nothing visible on TB’s FB before 2018. Did anyone get an early look to see if there was anything posted on 2/13/17?

 

[TTF14]

Currently there’s nothing visible on TB’s FB before 2018. Did anyone get an early look to see if there was anything posted on 2/13/17?

Nothing was posted publicly on that date or around it. Since I'm not FB friends with him, I have no clue if he posted anything privately.

 

[Yvettea]

Currently there’s nothing visible on TB’s FB before 2018. Did anyone get an early look to see if there was anything posted on 2/13/17?

Just noticed I completely misstated this. Currently everything visible on TB’s FB was posted in 2018. I was hopeful there may be some clue there to the crime at Delphi bridge.

 

[carbuff]

Right. It's hard to make a conclusion from the info.

Could be no match because TB doesn't match Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because there is no Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because Delphi DNA not enough to make a match or degraded, etc.
Could be no match....yet.

My hunch is that if there is DNA in Delphi and it doesn't match with TB, therefore ruling him out, LE would state that. So, I still have hope he's a possibility.

jmo

Even if there is a match, they still have to make a case that will stand up in a court of law. Unless any DNA sample was found directly on the girls, they need to account for other ways it could have been there ("Well, yeah, I've been to the bridge and smoked cigarettes there, but it was weeks before," for example.) They'd have to investigate connections, whether they can place him there, whether anybody saw him there or elsewhere. If he has an alibi, they have to confirm or break that.

And it's possible that even if any DNA sample doesn't match, it doesn't completely rule him out. If they think there might have been two killers, for instance, or if they aren't positive the sample came from the killer.

For anything this serious, they would almost certainly want to perform a second test to confirm the connection and rule out mistakes. They would probably run that through the state or FBI lab, which take longer.

And as I read it, the investigator did not say they had no match. The reporter seems to have extrapolated that.

All in all, lots of things that could be taking time.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Right. It's hard to make a conclusion from the info.

Could be no match because TB doesn't match Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because there is no Delphi DNA.
Could be no match because Delphi DNA not enough to make a match or degraded, etc.
Could be no match....yet.

My hunch is that if there is DNA in Delphi and it doesn't match with TB, therefore ruling him out, LE would state that. So, I still have hope he's a possibility.

jmo

I've always thought that the DNA ISP may have available is only a partial profile. If it were a full profile we would have seen a Parabon sketch by now. You can rule a POI out on a partial DNA profile but cannot rule them in without a full. I don't understand the secrecy of whether or not ISP has any DNA or not. How would that confirmation have any negative impact on the investigation even if informed the public that it may not be the killer's DNA? I really feel they have had someone in their sites for a very long time and the POI does match the partial DNA and LE is coming up empty on anything substantial to build a case. So TB may be under the microscope for a long while.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't believe LE in Indiana ever said they had DNA from the killer only that they had DNA and were trying to sort it out. Because of that I don't think the time it takes to get DNA results matters because I don't think they have anything from Delphi to compare it to.
My thought is that right now they are trying to connect TB to Indiana and specifically to Delphi in February 2017. Once they are convinced one way or another I think they will announce either he's not BG or he is a POI or hopefully a real suspect.

 

[TrifleMars]

Even if there is a match, they still have to make a case that will stand up in a court of law. Unless any DNA sample was found directly on the girls, they need to account for other ways it could have been there ("Well, yeah, I've been to the bridge and smoked cigarettes there, but it was weeks before," for example.) They'd have to investigate connections, whether they can place him there, whether anybody saw him there or elsewhere. If he has an alibi, they have to confirm or break that.

And it's possible that even if any DNA sample doesn't match, it doesn't completely rule him out. If they think there might have been two killers, for instance, or if they aren't positive the sample came from the killer.

For anything this serious, they would almost certainly want to perform a second test to confirm the connection and rule out mistakes. They would probably run that through the state or FBI lab, which take longer.

And as I read it, the investigator did not say they had no match. The reporter seems to have extrapolated that.

All in all, lots of things that could be taking time.

Is there any evidence to suggest there was two killers?

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't believe LE in Indiana ever said they had DNA from the killer only that they had DNA and were trying to sort it out. Because of that I don't think the time it takes to get DNA results matters because I don't think they have anything from Delphi to compare it to.
My thought is that right now they are trying to connect TB to Indiana and specifically to Delphi in February 2017. Once they are convinced one way or another I think they will announce either he's not BG or he is a POI or hopefully a real suspect.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. If TB is connected, they can take their time since he's in custody.

I just have a sinking feeling that there is no DNA in Delphi.

Speculation on the DNA, not fact.

jmo

 

[carbuff]

Is there any evidence to suggest there was two killers?

We know they've only put forward one POI and that's Bridge Guy. I'm not aware they've said anything either way about whether others might be involved.

 

[watcher9]

I agree it may take quite awhile to determine if TB is linked to Abby and Liberty's case. It seemed to be a very long time before MJK was ruled out in Lyric and Lizzy's case. LE could not place him in Evansdale at the time the girls were believed to be taken.

<modsnip - off topic>

 

[Jace1124]

Hi everyone! Thank you for bringing the thread back. When BG voice was released I believed and still believe that his (BG) voice sounded like a “yinzer” speaking “Pittsburghese”. If you are unfamiliar look it up especially how people from Pittsburgh say the word “down” they say “Dahn”. I looked at TB trip advisor and wouldn’t you know he made a visit to Pittsburgh in May 2017??!. I went further and I spoke how he wrote because as any educator will tell you there is a STRONG correlation on speaking/writing. When we write it is similar to how we speak especially in his case where his grammar is off.

His voice is key.

 

[gregjrichards]

I've always thought that the DNA ISP may have available is only a partial profile. If it were a full profile we would have seen a Parabon sketch by now. You can rule a POI out on a partial DNA profile but cannot rule them in without a full. I don't understand the secrecy of whether or not ISP has any DNA or not. How would that confirmation have any negative impact on the investigation even if informed the public that it may not be the killer's DNA? I really feel they have had someone in their sites for a very long time and the POI does match the partial DNA and LE is coming up empty on anything substantial to build a case. So TB may be under the microscope for a long while.

Law enforcement never like to show their hand to the murderer about what they have and what they don’t unless they absolutely have to. Can you imagine the relief the monster would feel if law enforcement came out and said we don’t have dna.

 

[tmar]

It is a huge “if” for me...but if DNA matched crime scene from Delphi, LE would still need to build a case, prove he was there that day etc...DNA does not = instant arrest/conviction. So we might not even hear about it until after the current case is ready, or tried, as he would be safely in custody. But as I said for me it is such a big “if” it is hard to address at this point.

I agree with you cluciano.
IF TB is suspected of being BG, we will probably not know for a long time.
TB will be in custody, and LE don't need to hurry, to obtain as much info as possible, for a conviction.
MOO.

 

[Inthedetails]

Law enforcement never like to show their hand to the murderer about what they have and what they don’t unless they absolutely have to. Can you imagine the relief the monster would feel if law enforcement came out and said we don’t have dna.

True. It's always a jolt to realize that perps are among us - and they are more interested in the cases than even we are.

So, yeah, I understand LE not revealing too much info.

Don't rest easy, BG....LE will always be looking for you.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Law enforcement never like to show their hand to the murderer about what they have and what they don’t unless they absolutely have to. Can you imagine the relief the monster would feel if law enforcement came out and said we don’t have dna.

Makes sense, thank you.