Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[cluciano63]

FWIW...I am over 50 and seldom use my cell phone. And it is just a phone, though it also texts. But I often forget it when I do local errands. I always figure I lived the first 30years of my life without access, and nothing life-threatening came up when I was out of reach. And it is never for very long anyway.

If I am driving any distance I take it, but that is more because my car is also old and has minimal features...

 

[tnith]

I have just watched the TB video where he is talking to the police officer, I don’t think his voice sounds too dissimilar to the BG IMO.

What lies within the visceral reaction to both clips?

As there's now accessible audio of TB's accident altercation, hopefully an in depth vocal track comparison between this & BG's sample may occur.

Anyone with video production software might try to match them up, but it's advanced audio programs that would help determine pace, range, pitch, etc. to a tune we cannot quite determine among ourselves. An aural dissection of his pathos, so to speak.

Something interesting I'd observed while listening to other 911 calls recently, were the graphics depicting decibel range throughout the duration of those tracks revealed subconscious habits.
When a caller was actively 'storytelling' their speech would 'even out' into predictable patterns, interspersed with shriller, sporadic bursts of statements and replies (frustration, attempts to goad operator back into behaving as they expected).

 

[margarita25]

( Another cold case just solved with genetic phenotyping:

IA - IA - Michelle Martinko, 18, Cedar Rapids, 19 Dec 1979

The Manchester community is totally surprised; many knew this guy for decades.
Manchester community shocked at Burns arrest in Martinko murder case

Use of DNA technology:
Groundbreaking DNA technology helped find Martinko murder suspect

—-

Love this post by LE VI Falcon500:

People all over the country who have raped or murdered 30-50 years ago are peeking out the window tonight. They are waiting for that knock on the door. They know it’s coming.

Is BG peeking out the window? )

 

[rainwaterstill]

( Another cold case just solved with genetic phenotyping:

IA - IA - Michelle Martinko, 18, Cedar Rapids, 19 Dec 1979


—-

Love this post by LE VI Falcon500:



Is BG peeking out the window? )

Hope so, with ever waking moment. Also hoping he doesn't sleep well. Justice for Abby and Libby is coming.

 

[rainwaterstill]

Love this post by LE VI Falcon500:


Is BG peeking out the window? )

Hope so, with every second he is awake. Also hoping he does not sleep well, ever. Justice for Abby and Libby is coming. The probably thinks he is too smart to get caught.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

( Another cold case just solved with genetic phenotyping:

IA - IA - Michelle Martinko, 18, Cedar Rapids, 19 Dec 1979


—-

Love this post by LE VI Falcon500:



Is BG peeking out the window? )

What a relief this must be for Michelle’s family. I am so sorry that they had to wait for such a long time. I can’t imagine what the last 39 years must have been like for them, and the last 22 months for Abby’s and Libby’s.

Hearing news like this does bring me hope that BG will be caught in the relatively near future, perhaps even within the next few months.

At the same time, it makes me wonder whether it is indeed the killer’s DNA that LE has recovered in Abby and Libby’s case (“Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA“ per Tricia). I understand phenotyping is a time consuming process, but with the two year mark fast approaching, I wonder about the possibility of the DNA belonging to someone completely unrelated to the crime, such as one of the searchers, especially if it was recovered near the girls’ bodies but it didn’t come directly from the remains.

 

[ab01]

What a relief this must be for Michelle’s family. I am so sorry that they had to wait for such a long time. I can’t imagine what the last 39 years must have been like for them, and the last 22 months for Abby’s and Libby’s.

Hearing news like this does bring me hope that BG will be caught in the relatively near future, perhaps even within the next few months.

At the same time, it makes me wonder whether it is indeed the killer’s DNA that LE has recovered in Abby and Libby’s case (“Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA“ per Tricia). I understand phenotyping is a time consuming process, but with the two year mark fast approaching, I wonder about the possibility of the DNA belonging to someone completely unrelated to the crime, such as one of the searchers, especially if it was recovered near the girls’ bodies but it didn’t come directly from the remains.

I would think dna of the searchers would have been ruled out fairly early and easily through voluntary dna. Personally it’s my hunch that they may have found a cigarette butt.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I would think dna of the searchers would have been ruled out fairly early and easily through voluntary dna. Personally it’s my hunch that they may have found a cigarette butt.

I agree completely. LE had to have the searchers submit DNA samples immediately.

My fear is that whatever DNA LE recovered indeed matched one of the searchers, and that person has been completely ruled out.

I’m not sure how much information LE has shared with Abby and Libby’s families. They may very well have told them they have DNA that was found at the scene that they have not been able to connect to any of the searchers or LE personnel at the scene (and thus likely belonging to the killer), but IIRC, it has never been confirmed they have what they believe to be BG’s DNA specifically.

MOO

 

[24Roses]

We need a Christmas miracle. I wish all families who have a loved one missing or their loved one was murdered could find that loved one or who killed them.

 

[Gracie55]

The girls were found in water according to what I've read. Dna could be lost. He knew this when he left them there.

Possibly he shot them, maybe even forced them into the water and shot A gun would give him control while some distancing from the victims. Maybe he's carrying one in the photo as it appears to me. Forensic evidence w guns.

Rough terrain controlling two healthy teens would take physical ability too. He was competent in an outdoor environment, steep trails.

Training? Experience? Could be a lead in some directions.

Brushy trails can snag clothing and skin. I hope dogs were somehow used to try to define the path of catastrophe, search for clues. Maybe they have something.

I sure hope he's brought to justice. He's smart but they've got to have a clue somewhere.

Topic jumping here but in reading up on the Monon High Bridge and trails I found reference to them fencing it off where the girls were found. Was it ever done? The perp could visit.

Were there many people coming to gawk?

Was something unusual about the spot?

Were they afraid evidence still existed, or wanted to preserve something?

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Topic jumping here but in reading up on the Monon High Bridge and trails I found reference to them fencing it off where the girls were found. Was it ever done? The perp could visit.

Were there many people coming to gawk?

Was something unusual about the spot?

Were they afraid evidence still existed, or wanted to preserve something?

RSBM for focus:

“POSTED ON APRIL 11, 2017 BY INDIANA LANDMARKS”

“Indiana Landmarks announced today that it has scheduled predevelopment work on Delphi’s Monon High Bridge in preparation for taking ownership of the railroad span from CSX. The railroad requires the work before it will give the 1891 bridge to the nonprofit preservation organization. CSX vacated the span in 1987. Indiana Landmarks included the High Bridge on its annual 10 Most Endangered list in 2016.

[SBM]

He reported that Indiana Landmarks will erect a temporary chain-link security fence at the north end of the bridge with gates that will allow access for construction equipment. A sign on the fence will warn against trespassing until the refurbished bridge opens as part of the city’s trail system, a long-time goal of the Wabash & Erie Canal Association, Heartland Heritage, Inc., and Deer Creek Township.

‘We began working with our local partners to acquire the Monon High Bridge back in 2012,’ notes Indiana Landmarks’ President Marsh Davis.” (BBM)
Indiana Landmarks Announces Rescue of Monon High Bridge - Indiana Landmarks

From a different article:
“Indiana Landmarks included Monon High Bridge, the second highest rail bridge in Indiana, on its 10 Most Endangered list in 2016 and had been in negotiations with CSX to restore the bridge since 2012.

This has been in the works for five years,” Tommy Kleckner, director of the Indiana Landmarks Western Regional Office, said Wednesday. ‘The timing of our negotiations, unfortunately, came at about the same time as this horrific tragedy in Delphi.’

Kleckner said work on the bridge was timed so it would not impede on the investigation into the double homicide of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.“ (BBM)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jconline.com/amp/100325462

So the fencing is unrelated to Abby and Libby’s murders, IMO.

 

[Gracie55]

RSBM for focus:

“POSTED ON APRIL 11, 2017 BY INDIANA LANDMARKS”

“Indiana Landmarks announced today that it has scheduled predevelopment work on Delphi’s Monon High Bridge in preparation for taking ownership of the railroad span from CSX. The railroad requires the work before it will give the 1891 bridge to the nonprofit preservation organization. CSX vacated the span in 1987. Indiana Landmarks included the High Bridge on its annual 10 Most Endangered list in 2016.

[SBM]

He reported that Indiana Landmarks will erect a temporary chain-link security fence at the north end of the bridge with gates that will allow access for construction equipment. A sign on the fence will warn against trespassing until the refurbished bridge opens as part of the city’s trail system, a long-time goal of the Wabash & Erie Canal Association, Heartland Heritage, Inc., and Deer Creek Township.

‘We began working with our local partners to acquire the Monon High Bridge back in 2012,’ notes Indiana Landmarks’ President Marsh Davis.” (BBM)
Indiana Landmarks Announces Rescue of Monon High Bridge - Indiana Landmarks

From a different article:
“Indiana Landmarks included Monon High Bridge, the second highest rail bridge in Indiana, on its 10 Most Endangered list in 2016 and had been in negotiations with CSX to restore the bridge since 2012.

This has been in the works for five years,” Tommy Kleckner, director of the Indiana Landmarks Western Regional Office, said Wednesday. ‘The timing of our negotiations, unfortunately, came at about the same time as this horrific tragedy in Delphi.’

Kleckner said work on the bridge was timed so it would not impede on the investigation into the double homicide of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.“ (BBM)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jconline.com/amp/100325462

So the fencing is unrelated to Abby and Libby’s murders, IMO.

I read all that and got the feeling it was a bit of both, an effort to cleanse the scape and move on.

I also got a wisp if a feeling maybe the murders were related in another way---was there controversy about future development plans? Family land impacted? "Sacred territory" of childhood memories threatened?

Had the planned development been discussed in their classes at school?

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

There are a couple of things I find particularly interesting about Michelle’s case in relation to Abby and Libby’s murders. One is the sketch of the suspect:

“On June 19, 1980, police released a composite sketch, developed based on descriptions provided by two witnesses, of the man they believed stabbed Martinko. The sketch indicated a white man in his late teens or early 20s, weighing between 165 and 175 pounds, and standing about 6 feet tall.

During the original investigation, detectives compiled a list of more than 80 potential suspects. More than 60 were tested and cleared.”
DNA evidence leads police to charge Iowa man with murder in 1979 killing of Michelle Martinko

Maybe it turned out the man the witnesses thought had stabbed Michelle was someone who just happened to be near the scene and didn’t have anything to do with the crime. Or perhaps the composite just wasn’t very good

LE also released phenotyping composites in May, 2017, and that did not connect Burns to the murder, either. It was only after genetic genealogy was used that they were able to identify the suspect:

Michelle Martinko: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

Also interesting, IMO, is the fact that the suspect lived only an hour away from the crime scene at the time, and continued to do so until he was caught 39 years later.

It doesn’t sound like he was eccentric or reclusive:

“When the father of three did stop in, Wright said they would make small talk, chatting about work and plans for the day.

Burns co-owns Advanced Coating Concepts with his son, a powder coating business and turf equipment dealer just south of Manchester.

‘He was in here (Wednesday) morning,’ Wright said. ‘We talked about how he had just dropped his cat off at the vet and about his work, and he said he had a busy day ahead. When he left I told him ‘Have a good day Jerry, I’ll see you tomorrow.’’

[SBM]

A retired teacher, John Curran, of Manchester, said he knows Burns from Bob Stephen Motors, a Manchester car dealership where the men occasionally would see each other and talk.

‘It seems awful shocking to me, the way I’ve known him,’ he said of Burns’ arrest.

[SBM]

Likewise, Mike McElliot, of Ryan, who has known Burns since they were freshmen at West Delaware High School, said he finds the news impossible to believe.

[SBM]

‘He’s a quiet, respected guy,’ he said.

McElliot said he felt bad for Burns as he listened to news accounts of Burns’ arrest Wednesday.”

Manchester community shocked at Burns arrest in Martinko murder case

As others have suggested in recent days, maybe BG is closer to Delphi than one would think.

 

[Jax49]

The girls were found in water according to what I've read. Dna could be lost. He knew this when he left them there.

RSFF

Early reports state they were found about 50 feet from the water.

Missing teen girls found dead near Indiana hiking trail

Riley said the girls' bodies were found in a wooded area about 50 feet from the banks of Deer Creek in an area less than a mile upstream from the railroad bridge.

 

[Mellowmelly]

What lies within the visceral reaction to both clips?

As there's now accessible audio of TB's accident altercation, hopefully an in depth vocal track comparison between this & BG's sample may occur.

Anyone with video production software might try to match them up, but it's advanced audio programs that would help determine pace, range, pitch, etc. to a tune we cannot quite determine among ourselves. An aural dissection of his pathos, so to speak.

Something interesting I'd observed while listening to other 911 calls recently, were the graphics depicting decibel range throughout the duration of those tracks revealed subconscious habits.
When a caller was actively 'storytelling' their speech would 'even out' into predictable patterns, interspersed with shriller, sporadic bursts of statements and replies (frustration, attempts to goad operator back into behaving as they expected).

They should be able to test TB voice against the recording, voices must be very unique as sometimes when I use the phone to pay my bills I have to use my voice as my password and it recognises my voice. Like you said, they must be able to look at the decibels ect. I hope so anyway, I’m new to this case but it’s been too long that this monster has been on the loose, he needs to be caught before he strikes again, if he hasn’t already. These girls should’ve been celebrating Christmas today.

 

[margarita25]

RSBM for focus:

“POSTED ON APRIL 11, 2017 BY INDIANA LANDMARKS”

“Indiana Landmarks announced today that it has scheduled predevelopment work on Delphi’s Monon High Bridge in preparation for taking ownership of the railroad span from CSX. The railroad requires the work before it will give the 1891 bridge to the nonprofit preservation organization. CSX vacated the span in 1987. Indiana Landmarks included the High Bridge on its annual 10 Most Endangered list in 2016.

[SBM]

He reported that Indiana Landmarks will erect a temporary chain-link security fence at the north end of the bridge with gates that will allow access for construction equipment. A sign on the fence will warn against trespassing until the refurbished bridge opens as part of the city’s trail system, a long-time goal of the Wabash & Erie Canal Association, Heartland Heritage, Inc., and Deer Creek Township.

‘We began working with our local partners to acquire the Monon High Bridge back in 2012,’ notes Indiana Landmarks’ President Marsh Davis.” (BBM)
Indiana Landmarks Announces Rescue of Monon High Bridge - Indiana Landmarks

From a different article:
“Indiana Landmarks included Monon High Bridge, the second highest rail bridge in Indiana, on its 10 Most Endangered list in 2016 and had been in negotiations with CSX to restore the bridge since 2012.

This has been in the works for five years,” Tommy Kleckner, director of the Indiana Landmarks Western Regional Office, said Wednesday. ‘The timing of our negotiations, unfortunately, came at about the same time as this horrific tragedy in Delphi.’

Kleckner said work on the bridge was timed so it would not impede on the investigation into the double homicide of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.“ (BBM)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jconline.com/amp/100325462

So the fencing is unrelated to Abby and Libby’s murders, IMO.

This provides an additional opportunity for someone to have known about and been directly involved with that bridge.

There’s a lot in this post above which peaks my interest.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Just a gut feeling I've had since early on is that BG is from southern IL or southern IN. Just a vibe I'm getting.

There have been a lot of unsolved murders along the Ohio River in both states in the last 15-20 years, and over the river into KY there have been some, too. i often wonder where BG has killed before.

JMO

It’s possible BG could have lived in both Indiana and Illinois. I’d say going by the authorities tone of “down the hill” it’s possible BG has a Defence force background so possibly deployed to either state, and maybe to other states as well.

 

[wdmcmahan]

This provides an additional opportunity for someone to have known about and been directly involved with that bridge.


There’s a lot in this post above which peaks my interest.

Yes! A construction foreman/ surveyor/ some other worker who made visits to the bridge to plan for upcoming work. Did they have different companies send someone out to give bids for the job? What other professions would be involved in this type of thing in the planning stages?

 

[aust amateur slueth]

This provides an additional opportunity for someone to have known about and been directly involved with that bridge.

There’s a lot in this post above which peaks my interest.

Possibly someone who was a member of a save monon high bridge group?

 

[wdmcmahan]

Possibly someone who was a member of a save monon high bridge group?

That would be a good thing to check. Let's see if such a fb page or something similar exists!