Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

[IceIce9]

I have to agree. Why the bridge? The girls made a specific request to go THERE... (usually kids say I’m bored, take me ... a,b, or c....) Who may have asked/requested they meet THERE? Why not a mall or something sports related like hitting/catching softballs since it was getting close to the season/warm day? Libby’s grandpap took her for equipment the wkend before. Something to ponder..

I never thought it was unusual that they chose the bridge. This is a small, rural Indiana town. There is no mall. Rural and small town teens find places to hang out, walk, etc. The bridge is a local landmark and kids hang out and walk the trail.

We lived in a small rural town when my daughter was that age and she and her friends met at “The Cave.” It wasn’t really a cave, just a rock formation that was near a trail that they liked to walk. When I was that age we met at “The Creek.” It was just a spot where we would get dropped off to meet our friends and hike or just hang out.

It isn’t much different than city teens meeting their friends at the mall.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I never thought it was unusual that they chose the bridge. This is a small, rural Indiana town. There is no mall. Rural and small town teens find places to hang out, walk, etc. The bridge is a local landmark and kids hang out and walk the trail.

We lived in a small rural town when my daughter was that age and she and her friends met at “The Cave.” It wasn’t really a cave, just a rock formation that was near a trail that they liked to walk. When I was that age we met at “The Creek.” It was just a spot where we would get dropped off to meet our friends and hike or just hang out.

It isn’t much different than city teens meeting their friends at the mall.

bbm Only malls don' have hills that people can get forced down into a remote area away from the public. Not that people can't get abducted at the mall, just saying. moo And agreed, I've lived in NW Indiana and there's not much to do (pick corn, strawberries, blueberries, apples), unless you drive or take a train to Chicago or to the Indiana beaches/dunes.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

A little more information on who contributed to the sketch:
"Police say they hope the sketch will help clarify some of the pictures that were previously released regarding the investigation and the man on the bridge. Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails the day Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered."

"We feel this is very important because it actually gives a better view of the person in the picture that you see down below," Sgt. Kim Riley said at a press conference on Monday morning. "It shows a little more facial features it gives you a little more information on what we’re looking at, who the suspect might be, and that’s why we feel that it’s very important that this picture is out there at this time." Police say it's very important for the public to focus on the facial features."

Source: ISP releases sketch of man accused of killing Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

This means they have someone to show mugshots too.

 

[Kittybunny]

As to whether Abigail and Liberty were texting with a boy and had a secret plan to meet him in the park, I've never thought that was likely.

Going to the park on February 13, 2017 was a spontaneous event. Abby and Libby had few specific plans for the time they were about to spent together. On the evening of February 12th, when Abby arrived for the sleepover, she brought paint with her and Abby and Libby spent the evening painting a picture together that they titled "Chocolate". They were up half the night talking.

They slept in and make pancakes for breakfast the next morning. The girls asked what they could do, so Libby's grandma asked if they would like to do some filing to earn money that they could use to shop. They did that for a while and were not on their phones while filing.

While the girls were filing, Libby's older sister, Kelsi, said she was going to a friend's house before she had to go to work at 4pm. Libby jumped up and asked if Kelsi could take the girls to the trails, which she did, with the girls being dropped off between 1 and 1:30pm. It was a nice day and the decision to go to the park was spontaneous.

There are many reasons why Libby may have started photographing/recording the man. He may have said something scary before he said "down the hill" that alarmed the girls. Many websleuthers have commented that they think the bridge guy may have been carrying a weapon that the grainy picture doesn't make clear. Maybe Abby and Libby could see a gun or a hammer or who knows what that scared them.

I've always thought this could have been a crime of opportunity by someone who knew students were off school that day. Look at the apparent layers of clothes on the suspect versus how Libby and Abby are dressed. I checked the temperatures in Delphi, Indiana on February 13, 2017 when Abby and Libby were in the park. The temperature was about 43-44 degrees F and sunny. Maybe the perpetrator had been dressed warmly and hanging out all day looking for potential victims.

Agree. To those who think there HAS to be an online connection or any connection at all, please consider the case of Jayme Closs. Everyone was convinced that she had a secret boyfriend that she had been communicating with, or that someone had spotted her at one of her activities. But no, it was completely and totally random. The predator spotted her getting off the bus and decided then and there she was it. He lived miles away and had a few ties to the town. Which is why it was so hard to solve. If Jayme hadn’t rescued herself, I believe this crime would never have been solved.

And I think that’s why despite them having a sketch and a description, they have no real suspects. There are no connections IMO. One thing to remember is that often predators like this are always hunting - they don’t see victims as humans or people. They see them as prey, and then calculate the odds of achieving their goals. Chilling.

 

[Sarahlou]

I never thought it was unusual that they chose the bridge. This is a small, rural Indiana town. There is no mall. Rural and small town teens find places to hang out, walk, etc. The bridge is a local landmark and kids hang out and walk the trail.

We lived in a small rural town when my daughter was that age and she and her friends met at “The Cave.” It wasn’t really a cave, just a rock formation that was near a trail that they liked to walk. When I was that age we met at “The Creek.” It was just a spot where we would get dropped off to meet our friends and hike or just hang out.

It isn’t much different than city teens meeting their friends at the mall.

Exactly! I was confused as to why so many thought they'd only be going there for a boy.
When I was that age my best friend and I loved riding our bikes and hanging out at places like that, the woods etc.

 

[carbuff]

Agree. To those who think there HAS to be an online connection or any connection at all, please consider the case of Jayme Closs. Everyone was convinced that she had a secret boyfriend that she had been communicating with, or that someone had spotted her at one of her activities. But no, it was completely and totally random. The predator spotted her getting off the bus and decided then and there she was it. He lived miles away and had a few ties to the town. Which is why it was so hard to solve. If Jayme hadn’t rescued herself, I believe this crime would never have been solved.

And I think that’s why despite them having a sketch and a description, they have no real suspects. There are no connections IMO. One thing to remember is that often predators like this are always hunting - they don’t see victims as humans or people. They see them as prey, and then calculate the odds of achieving their goals. Chilling.

I agree that most likely Abby and Libby encountered their killer the same way. Random. Really random. The killer just happened to be in town, just happened to be there, just happened to see them. Five minutes either way and it wouldn't have happened.

Random is really hard to wrap our heads around. It seems like there should be a connection, some kind of meaning, soe kind of plan. But with so many of these murders, it was as random as lightning striking.

 

[margarita25]

I agree that most likely Abby and Libby encountered their killer the same way. Random. Really random. The killer just happened to be in town, just happened to be there, just happened to see them. Five minutes either way and it wouldn't have happened.

Random is really hard to wrap our heads around. It seems like there should be a connection, some kind of meaning, soe kind of plan. But with so many of these murders, it was as random as lightning striking.

Indeed. Continuing off your post carbuff, we just saw in Jayme’s case how difficult that case was to solve due to its random nature (to the poster above, ftr not everyone thought she had a boyfriend, etc, I leaned in a “random” direction in her case (random, but not targeted, turns out it was both random and targeted because he did see her previously as you mentioned)...anyway, my point is if this was random then obviously this makes the case harder to solve because there is no trail (electronic, etc) so to speak.

But the difference here is in IMO BG could have some a stronger trail victim wise because he’s older, other crimes, we just haven’t linked them. These crimes could be past crimes or even future crimes since Abby’s and Libby’s killings. He might have gotten away with these too which is why there’s no DNA hit. (Again the whole DNA thing is a whole nother ballgame, we know they have DNA, but do they know for sure it’s the killer’s DNA? (Example cigarette butt)

—-

ETA:
I tend to think that if sexual assault(s) and/or fighting back occurred, there would be some sort of DNA.

 

[carbuff]

Indeed. Continuing off your post carbuff, we just aaw In Jayme’s case how difficult that case was to solve due to its random nature (to the poster above, for not everyone thought she had a boyfriend, etc, I leaned in a “random” direction in her case (random, but not targeted, turns out it was both random and targeted)...anyway, my point is if this was random then obviously this makes the case harder to solve because there is no trail so to speak.

But the difference here is in IMO BG could have some sort of trail victim wise, other crimes, we just haven’t linked them. These crimes could be last crimws or even future crimes since Abby’s and Libby’s killings. He might have gotten away with these too which is why there’s no DNA hit. (Again the whole DNA thing is a whole nother ballgame, we know they have DNA, but do they know for sure it’s the killer’s DNA? (Example cigarette butt)

True. I don't think "random" says anything about whether the killer has left a trail of similar crimes, only that this one might have been unplanned, or planned only to the extent that he was on the prowl looking for a victim(s).

 

[margarita25]

True. I don't think "random" says anything about whether the killer has left a trail of similar crimes, only that this one might have been unplanned, or planned only to the extent that he was on the prowl looking for a victim(s).

I tend to think he was on the prowl and hunting, but it could be he’s more of an opportunistic offender, like the guy who killed Laura Smither and Jessica Cain. (Iirc he said something about if he saw the opportunity he would jump on it , could be a mall, could be anywhere).

Which again brings me back to things @Foxfire would say about these (possible) types of guys, that there’s a reason for everything they do. I think Foxfire would definitely lean towards a planned, predatorial hunting in this case, moo.

—-

I can’t quit thinking about COD in this case. Something we obviously don’t need to know in order to protect the integrity of the investigation, understandably. But boy oh boy do things go through my head.

Which brings me back to a discussion almost 2 years ago I was having with @perfectingpink about him possibly having a pouch, back then I was thinking it was brown and it was an ammo pouch. Is there a pouch? Gosh I hate this, time is going by and details are fading..

 

[Steleheart]

While I find nothing wrong with reviewing previous topics, the media thread covers most of these. To dispel rumors, speculation, etc LE in this case has addressed many. I personally thought early on that the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force (Home) would be the experts utilized by the FBI and would be the primary avenue to follow.

Indeed, Sgt Tony Slocum; 2/21/17
CNN.com - Transcripts
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

<snipped>

"CASAREZ: Do you believe that these young girls at all could have been innocently communicating with someone who may have even not led to his real
identity, to meet that person at this trail for a couple of hours?
SLOCUM: Well, anything`s possible, but the evidence we have thus far has not revealed that to be true. Unfortunately, these young ladies were just doing what teenage girls do. They were -- they were enjoying a beautiful day on a beautiful trail in a beautiful part of Indiana, and these crimes
occurred."

Also, in fact, the State agency responsible for investigating internet crimes also reported on it, as in this RTV6 news clip (within it).

So IMO there was nothing secret or sneaky in these girls' actions that day. They "were just doing what teenage girls do. They [...] were enjoying a beautiful day on a beautiful trail in a beautiful part of Indiana."

 

[margarita25]

Crosslinking from the media thread:

Nothing new - maybe info taken from Radar as similar headline.
Crime Hunter -Break in double murder of Indiana girls? - Toronto Sun

From the above link:

“Now, there may be a suspect although cops are rightly hesitant to call him that.

His name is Charles Andrew Eldridge, 46. He goes by Andy.

The burly looks alarmingly like the composite sketch that emerged from the initial probe.

The killer was described as a white male between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10, weighing between 180 and 220 pounds, with reddish-brown hair.

Sounds like Eldridge.

And he ticks off a tractor-trailer load of other boxes.”

(Ain’t that the truth!)

 

[IceIce9]

bbm Only malls don' have hills that people can get forced down into a remote area away from the public. Not that people can't get abducted at the mall, just saying. moo And agreed, I've lived in NW Indiana and there's not much to do (pick corn, strawberries, blueberries, apples), unless you drive or take a train to Chicago or to the Indiana beaches/dunes.

Children of all ages have been abducted at malls and shopping centers, parks, walking to or from school, riding bikes on rural roads or city streets, even from their own yards. Bad things can happen anywhere.

 

[kkdj]

True. I don't think "random" says anything about whether the killer has left a trail of similar crimes, only that this one might have been unplanned, or planned only to the extent that he was on the prowl looking for a victim(s).

Bingo imo. There was going to be a victim(s) no matter what and BG finally saw his opportunity and jumped on it.

 

[MizStery]

I have commented before about 3 things that strike me when I contrast the photo taken by Libby on the bridge(it is the very same photo used in the FBI Poster).

Sgt. John Perrine in the ISP Indianapolis issued a plea in a Twitter post which has always stuck with me. He urged the public to look closely at Libby’s photo. He felt that somebody ‘by concentrating’ on BGs hat & coat could identify him. He closed by saying ‘It's ok if you're wrong, just to call if you have a valid suspicion.

The three things I caught when contrasting Libby’s BG photo and CAE in his camouflage uniform are:
The camouflage ‘hat’. I thought BG had possibly wore it lower on his forehead in the bridge photo. If it is the same hat then it seems likely investigators would be able to determine if CAEs hat is a possible match.

The hoodie peeking out of BGs collar in the artist sketch,Libby’s photo and the photo of CAG in his camouflage uniform seem to have a similar hoodie peeking out of the collar.

I think it is a stretch ‘but’ it is a possibity BG is wearing a pouch on his left thigh near the rise of his jeans’. If you look at CAE in the camouflage photo he is wearing a black pouch which attaches & is secured by straps around his thigh.

Just my opinion. Please feel free to critique but be kind


I want to be sensitive but I also want to briefly mention I have always thought he appears to be on the prowl. I think he had supplies concealed ‘a kit so to speak’ to use in the event a sexual opportunity presented itself. He is deviant predator in every since of the word.

 

[Jabarn]

Bingo imo. There was going to be a victim(s) no matter what and BG finally saw his opportunity and jumped on it.

I do feel BG was out looking around for an opportunity. He may have done this many times and in many locations (looking for an opportunity), but something happened where it didn’t work out in previous attempts. Unfortunately, here, he did have an opportunity that worked. That’s about the best I can make if it, if that’s the personality of the killer.

I guess we go back to the profile provided by the FBI of someone who may have changed their appearance, skipped work, etc. But if he is a transient, who would even be around to know him well enough to see that?

Back to motive, if he is a serial killer, then it might make sense his motive was a targeted crime against the girls for the kinds of motive serial killers have.

Is it possible he was at the trails, mad at something else in his life, had another trigger for his rage, and took it out on the girls (displaced anger)?

It might be a combination of all of that.

 

[Jabarn]

View attachment 166144 View attachment 166145 I have commented before about 3 things that strike me when I contrast the photo taken by Libby on the bridge(it is the very same photo used in the FBI Poster).

Sgt. John Perrine in the ISP Indianapolis issued a plea in Twitter post which has always stuck with me. He urged the public to look closely at Libby’s photo. He felt that somebody ‘by concentrating’ on the BGs hat & coat could identify him. He closed by saying ‘It's ok if you're wrong, just to call if you have a valid suspicion.

The three things are:
The camouflage ‘hat’ I thought BG had possibly wore it lower on his forehead in the bridge photo. If it is the same hat then it seems likely investigators would be able to determine if CAEs hat is a possible match.

The hoodie peeking out of his collar stands out in the artist sketch,Libby’s photo and the photo of CAG in his camouflage uniform.

I think it is a stretch ‘but’ it is a possibity BG is wearing a pouch on his left thigh by the rise of his jeans’. If you look at CAE in the camouflage photo he is wearing a black pouch which attaches & is secured by straps around his thigh.

Just my opinion. Please feel free to critique but be kind


I want to be sensitive but I also want to briefly mention I have always thought he appears to be on the prowl. I think he had supplies concealed ‘a kit so to speak’ to use in the event a sexual opportunity presented itself. He is deviant predator in every since of the word.

I’ll be kind. My first impression was it was a camouflage baseball hat.

That pouch looking thing seems clear in one of the BG stills, but not so much in the other pic, so I wonder about it all together- that brown area under his blue jacket may just be pixelation since the pics aren’t clear. It does seem to be be clear (IMO) he is reaching under the blue coat for something, while seeming to be cool and collected, looking straight ahead.

 

[Yvettea]

When he came to the bridge BG must have already realized the opportunity the bridge provided to effectively trap someone.

The haunting quality of the photographs posted by Libby demonstrate just how vulnerable you would be out on that bridge with no way off until you have walked the full length of the bridge. How ironic that Libby would post a photograph of Abby on the bridge just past the creek. Then she would turn and photograph the vast distance of the bridge that remained to be crossed.

If BG saw the photographs he knew where they were on the bridge and that he could probably trap them by quickly crossing the bridge behind them. Or maybe he learned they were there in some other way.

But once they went on the bridge they were effectively trapped by his loathsome presence.

 

[MistyWaters]

Going by memory because the topic of Abby’s pic has been extensivekt discussed in the past....but I don’t believe Libby posted the pic of Abby on any public site. IIRC it was sent by SnapChat and although I’m not familiar with the app, others have said pics are only viewable by preselected “friends”. However, later someone who received the pic from Libby, who has never been publicly identified, copied the SnapChat pic to their Facebook page, brought the pic to the attention of LE and that’s how it became widely circulated.

Does anyone recall what I’m referring to? If my recollect is correct, a stranger/predator would have no way of knowning the girls were on the bridge just by noticing a photo. And I’m certain LE has already thoroughly scrutinized every person who was connected to Abby or Libby via social media.

 

[Jabarn]

When he came to the bridge BG must have already realized the opportunity the bridge provided to effectively trap someone.

The haunting quality of the photographs posted by Libby demonstrate just how vulnerable you would be out on that bridge with no way off until you have walked the full length of the bridge. How ironic that Libby would post a photograph of Abby on the bridge just past the creek. Then she would turn and photograph the vast distance of the bridge that remained to be crossed.

If BG saw the photographs he knew where they were on the bridge and that he could probably trap them by quickly crossing the bridge behind them. Or maybe he learned they were there in some other way.

But once they went on the bridge they were effectively trapped by his loathsome presence.

Exactly - BG had to understand that. If BG is a local who knew the bridge and trail system well (he may be a local, but you would think he would’ve been caught by now, with many knowing about a guy looking like that being around before). A transient who came to gain a quick understanding of the bridge and trails might make more sense. That’s why I think DNA evidence of every cigarette butt, every item touched in discarded clothing or drink cans (basically, anything investigators put in plastic bags) is important.

 

[Yvettea]

Going by memory because the topic of Abby’s pic has been extensivekt discussed in the past....but I don’t believe Libby posted the pic of Abby on any public site. IIRC it was sent by SnapChat and although I’m not familiar with the app, others have said pics are only viewable by preselected “friends”. However, later someone who received the pic from Libby, who has never been publicly identified, copied the SnapChat pic to their Facebook page, brought the pic to the attention of LE and that’s how it became widely circulated.

Does anyone recall what I’m referring to? If my recollect is correct, a stranger/predator would have no way of knowning the girls were on the bridge just by noticing a photo. And I’m certain LE has already thoroughly scrutinized every person who was connected to Abby or Libby via social media.

I trust your recollection. He probably never saw the photographs. His despicable thoughts were all he needed to catch them and take them.