Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

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Like with the Jayme Closs case, there were so many clues but when the truth came out, and we read the affidavit, it was hard. It was shocking. It was a 21 year old who saw her getting on the school bus and then she was targeted. I don’t think anyone here thought that would be how it actually unfolded.

I compare Abby and Libby’s murders firstly for the nationwide interest both cases generated. Secondly, for the not quite understood motive in either case from the start.

I do tend to think the girls were targeted. That doesn’t mean they were seen or known before, but targeted because BG was possibly targeting any person he could isolate. But it could be either.

It’s all so strange, how BG felt comfortable walking the bridge (although the pics show him looking down, which would make sense since he was tracking them 60plus feet above the ground on a rickety old abandoned train bridge, with slats separated to such a degree, you can see the water and ground below).

He had to feel comfortable on that bridge enough to do that, and wait until the end of the bridge to force them down the hill. Attacking them earlier, he might have been pushed off. So there had to be a strategy, right?
 
Jabarn said:
Like with the Jayme Closs case, there were so many clues but when the truth came out, and we read the affidavit, it was hard. It was shocking. It was a 21 year old who saw her getting on the school bus and then she was targeted. I don’t think anyone here thought that would be how it actually unfolded.

I compare Abby and Libby’s murders firstly for the nationwide interest both cases generated. Secondly, for the not quite understood motive in either case from the start.

I do tend to think the girls were targeted. That doesn’t mean they were seen or known before, but targeted because BG was possibly targeting any person he could isolate. But it could be either.

It’s all so strange, how BG felt comfortable walking the bridge (although the pics show him looking down, which would make sense since he was tracking them 60plus feet above the ground on a rickety old abandoned train bridge, with slats separated to such a degree, you can see the water and ground below).

He had to feel comfortable on that bridge enough to do that, and wait until the end of the bridge to force them down the hill. Attacking them earlier, he might have been pushed off. So there had to be a strategy, right?
Click to expand...

I haven't been on the thread for quite awhile. It defies logic with a photo, voice recording, and (hopefully) some DNA that the Perp has yet to be charged.

I was doing a little research, and came across an interesting study on serial killers, and thought others of you might find this interesting too.
PDF you can download:

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/201801.0010/v1/download

Some highlights:

• Victims were mostly females (75.4%) and their ages ranged from 8 to 91 years.
• All (100%) of the serial killers were males.
• The average educational level for killers was a high school certificate or further education (70.2%).
• "The high education level reflects the intelligence level of these offenders". P.14
• 32.6% of killers were diagnosed by a psychiatric disorder.
• The relationships between the killers and the victims were mostly a customer and client relationship with (41.5%), then comes strangers (31.5%), acquaintances (12.1%), and finally targeted strangers with (11.7%) percentage.
• Number of victims in the scene ranged from 2 to 23 victims with 2 to 4 victims as the largest group with (60.9%), then 5 to 9 victims with (27.2%), and 10 or more with (12%) percentages.
• The motives for the killers were mostly for sex (81.5%)
 
rosesfromangels said:
I haven't been on the thread for quite awhile. It defies logic with a photo, voice recording, and (hopefully) some DNA that the Perp has yet to be charged.

I was doing a little research, and came across an interesting study on serial killers, and thought others of you might find this interesting too.
PDF you can download:

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/201801.0010/v1/download

Some highlights:

• Victims were mostly females (75.4%) and their ages ranged from 8 to 91 years.
• All (100%) of the serial killers were males.
• The average educational level for killers was a high school certificate or further education (70.2%).
• "The high education level reflects the intelligence level of these offenders". P.14
• 32.6% of killers were diagnosed by a psychiatric disorder.
• The relationships between the killers and the victims were mostly a customer and client relationship with (41.5%), then comes strangers (31.5%), acquaintances (12.1%), and finally targeted strangers with (11.7%) percentage.
• Number of victims in the scene ranged from 2 to 23 victims with 2 to 4 victims as the largest group with (60.9%), then 5 to 9 victims with (27.2%), and 10 or more with (12%) percentages.
• The motives for the killers were mostly for sex (81.5%)
Click to expand...

I wonder about 11.7 % for targeted strangers. How many serial killers were transient and lived off the grid, ie, felt comfortable living in the most uncomfortable living arrangements. *IF* BG is a serial killer, he may be unique subset of the ones typically profiled, and possibly why he isn’t caught yet.
 
I apologize if this was posted upstream, but I wanted to share a couple of thoughts.

I went back today and watched the 02/14/19 LE presser. It started out with the "Down the Hill" recording, which I've heard before. When I heard it again today, my first thought was BG was a smoker. Maybe a heavy-duty smoker; his voice is very raspy. I hadn't noticed that before, but I believe it is significant.

Secondly, a question was posed about paraben DNA. I typed out Sgt. Kim Riley's response the best I could (edited for grammar and punctuation for easier reading):

Well, first of all, we’re not going to comment on what we’re evaluating and analyzing, but there’s always an analogy to some other situation, which is good, and we can turn that into a very positive [thing]. I appreciate so you brought up April Tinsley, because every time that happens, it causes these extraordinary folks that are doing this work to reset. That [question] was asked a bit ago and not necessarily a reset of the entire thing, but it caused them to take a step back and think okay maybe there’s something connected to that. [The solution might be] two three or four steps away [maybe], so as technology continues to evolve we certainly hope one day we can show completely [what went] into this, but today’s not the day to do that.
Click to expand...


Link to presser:

JMVHO.

ETA: I was amused by the DA's facial expression. He seems to be wearing a perpetual worried/anxious look :p
 
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With reference to BG's attire that day …. I have always thought it was an oversized sweatshirt and he had the hood pulled up over his head. I have never seen it as being a thick wad of top hair , ball cap with an over played with bill or a cap that the sketch has on him. I have always thought the white looking loops hanging outside of his coat was the draw strings from the oversized sweat shirt. I wish we could see the sketch without that cap. But maybe , LE has a reason on why they put that cap on him. I guess it could be possible someone reported a man in the vicinity that day and the cap on their head stood out so that is why they chose to put one on him hoping it would bring in tips on who this mas was. Or maybe my eyes aren't that great and he did in fact have that style of cap. Reminds me of a taxi driver cap. I wish this case could be solved . I feel so bad for these young girls families. I could not imagine the pain and suffering they face daily.
 
Jabarn said:
Like with the Jayme Closs case, there were so many clues but when the truth came out, and we read the affidavit, it was hard. It was shocking. It was a 21 year old who saw her getting on the school bus and then she was targeted. I don’t think anyone here thought that would be how it actually unfolded.

I compare Abby and Libby’s murders firstly for the nationwide interest both cases generated. Secondly, for the not quite understood motive in either case from the start.

I do tend to think the girls were targeted. That doesn’t mean they were seen or known before, but targeted because BG was possibly targeting any person he could isolate. But it could be either.

It’s all so strange, how BG felt comfortable walking the bridge (although the pics show him looking down, which would make sense since he was tracking them 60plus feet above the ground on a rickety old abandoned train bridge, with slats separated to such a degree, you can see the water and ground below).

He had to feel comfortable on that bridge enough to do that, and wait until the end of the bridge to force them down the hill. Attacking them earlier, he might have been pushed off. So there had to be a strategy, right?
Click to expand...

The problem I have with them being targeted is how he would know they were going to be there on that day and time. I thought he may have seen Libby before as I thought she lived right near the trail but as we saw from the HLN report it is a drive of a few miles. It has always struck me spur of the moment violent rampage killing that was over not long after it started. I hope we get the facts one day at trial.

Locals has there been any local news about the case in the past few days regarding the number of tips for example since the press conference?
 
gregjrichards said:
The problem I have with them being targeted is how he would know they were going to be there on that day and time. I thought he may have seen Libby before as I thought she lived right near the trail but as we saw from the HLN report it is a drive of a few miles. It has always struck me spur of the moment violent rampage killing that was over not long after it started. I hope we get the facts one day at trial.

Locals has there been any local news about the case in the past few days regarding the number of tips for example since the press conference?
Click to expand...

For local news on the case I always look at the Lafayette Courier and Journal, which is the closest newspaper:

https://www.jconline.com/story/news.../02/13/delphi-murders-update-2019/2850789002/

All the Indianapolis news stations featured 2 year anniversary pieces but I haven’t seen anything afterwards regarding the number of tips.
 
Jabarn said:
Like with the Jayme Closs case, there were so many clues but when the truth came out, and we read the affidavit, it was hard. It was shocking. It was a 21 year old who saw her getting on the school bus and then she was targeted. I don’t think anyone here thought that would be how it actually unfolded.

I compare Abby and Libby’s murders firstly for the nationwide interest both cases generated. Secondly, for the not quite understood motive in either case from the start.

I do tend to think the girls were targeted. That doesn’t mean they were seen or known before, but targeted because BG was possibly targeting any person he could isolate. But it could be either.

It’s all so strange, how BG felt comfortable walking the bridge (although the pics show him looking down, which would make sense since he was tracking them 60plus feet above the ground on a rickety old abandoned train bridge, with slats separated to such a degree, you can see the water and ground below).

He had to feel comfortable on that bridge enough to do that, and wait until the end of the bridge to force them down the hill. Attacking them earlier, he might have been pushed off. So there had to be a strategy, right?
Click to expand...

Well thought out post.

I completely agree with you that this was a very well thought out crime. He probably watched the bridge and knew that if someone wasn't coming up from behind him in the turn of the road, he could cross the bridge and get to the girls before anyone would have gotten to starting across the bridge. He was probably walking very swiftly across the bridge to get to the girls which would have alerted them. he also knew that the other side down the hill was isolated.

I think he forced them across the creek (which he knew was low) so that he could kill them and then come back up the north end of the area so as to either come back up to his car at the cemetery or back up and around to the regular parking lot.

This was incredibly well planned. They guy has to be intelligent in some ways as to plan it this well.
 
Justice101 said:
Well thought out post.

I completely agree with you that this was a very well thought out crime. He probably watched the bridge and knew that if someone wasn't coming up from behind him in the turn of the road, he could cross the bridge and get to the girls before anyone would have gotten to starting across the bridge. He was probably walking very swiftly across the bridge to get to the girls which would have alerted them. he also knew that the other side down the hill was isolated.

I think he forced them across the creek (which he knew was low) so that he could kill them and then come back up the north end of the area so as to either come back up to his car at the cemetery or back up and around to the regular parking lot.

This was incredibly well planned. They guy has to be intelligent in some ways as to plan it this well.
Click to expand...

Road N 625 W runs underneath the southerly end of the bridge. After that, heading northerly it becomes a dead end, curving into a driveway at a residence reportedly owned by snowbirds who weren’t home Feb/17. This road can be seem on google, marked through the overgrowth of the tree canopy.

I’m very curious how close “down the hill” was to that road because I would guess in the mind of a criminal, he would choose to target victims closest to his exit opportunity. Just my theory but it’s also because of the location of this road where a vehicle could be parked under the end of the bridge that I’ve always wondered if the girls desperately fled from an attempted kidnapping.
 
New to this case- been trying to get caught up but will take a while to fully do so.

So apologies, as I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum and I just can't find it: why did Libby take the photos and capture the audio? Do we know? Was she trying to document things because she was concerned?

I've picked up that LE has more audio (possibly more photos?) but isn't releasing it... I understand it's supposedly to protect the investigation, but what are the ideas behind why this is still the case since it's been TWO YEARS and no perp captured?
 
MJPeony said:
New to this case- been trying to get caught up but will take a while to fully do so.

So apologies, as I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum and I just can't find it: why did Libby take the photos and capture the audio? Do we know? Was she trying to document things because she was concerned?

I've picked up that LE has more audio (possibly more photos?) but isn't releasing it... I understand it's supposedly to protect the investigation, but what are the ideas behind why this is still the case since it's been TWO YEARS and no perp captured?
Click to expand...

“Indiana State Police released a photo on February 15 that was taken from Libby’s cell phone that depicted a man walking along the railroad tracks. Libby was heralded as a “hero” by state police for having the presence of mind to begin recording.”
One Year Later: Why the Delphi case isn't cold

Aside from the above, LE has not said if it’s known precisely why Libby began recording.

This is just my opinion but by following this case for quite some time, I firmly believe LE has nothing additional to release that would assist anyone in identifying the killer. I think they’ve already given it their all out, their best shot. Any further details might serve to satisfy the curiosity of the public but it will not assist in useful tips leading toward the identity of the perp.
 
MistyWaters said:
Road N 625 W runs underneath the southerly end of the bridge. After that, heading northerly it becomes a dead end, curving into a driveway at a residence reportedly owned by snowbirds who weren’t home Feb/17. This road can be seem on google, marked through the overgrowth of the tree canopy.

I’m very curious how close “down the hill” was to that road because I would guess in the mind of a criminal, he would choose to target victims closest to his exit opportunity. Just my theory but it’s also because of the location of this road where a vehicle could be parked under the end of the bridge that I’ve always wondered if the girls desperately fled from an attempted kidnapping.
Click to expand...

Down the hill had to be on the south side of the creek and yet the bodies were found on the north side of the creek. So therefore I think it is logical to assume that down the hill was at the south end of the bridge (down near the road you mentioned), then they had to get back across the creek.

UNLESS... (my early early theory) was that he walked them back across the railroad and then to the right, across the side of the hill, then DOWN THE HILL to the place where their bodies were found. The resting place of those poor girls is about as isolated as you can get there. And Crossing the creek in my mind would have been a VERY RISKY MOVE on his part.

Again, I just don't know what actually happened.. but I do know that it looks like it was well planned out.
 
MJPeony said:
New to this case- been trying to get caught up but will take a while to fully do so.

So apologies, as I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum and I just can't find it: why did Libby take the photos and capture the audio? Do we know? Was she trying to document things because she was concerned?

I've picked up that LE has more audio (possibly more photos?) but isn't releasing it... I understand it's supposedly to protect the investigation, but what are the ideas behind why this is still the case since it's been TWO YEARS and no perp captured?
Click to expand...

Welcome, as was eluded to, it appears something sent the red flag up for Libby. Maybe he was walking too fast, maybe they passed by him coming towards them on the way out...then he doubled back and was coming back towards them later.. that would be very odd, or maybe girl's intuition/antennae came up.
 
Justice101 said:
Down the hill had to be on the south side of the creek and yet the bodies were found on the north side of the creek. So therefore I think it is logical to assume that down the hill was at the south end of the bridge (down near the road you mentioned), then they had to get back across the creek.

UNLESS... (my early early theory) was that he walked them back across the railroad and then to the right, across the side of the hill, then DOWN THE HILL to the place where their bodies were found. The resting place of those poor girls is about as isolated as you can get there. And Crossing the creek in my mind would have been a VERY RISKY MOVE on his part.

Again, I just don't know what actually happened.. but I do know that it looks like it was well planned out.
Click to expand...
I agree. I have seen GH's videos explaining crossing the creek but I have never been able to agree. The risk of just losing control of them, falling down, him getting wet. Climbing up on the other side.
From the other end they are completely under cover all the way down the hill and through the woods. And we don't know if the audio was immediately following the video of him or minutes later.
 
Steleheart said:
I agree. I have seen GH's videos explaining crossing the creek but I have never been able to agree. The risk of just losing control of them, falling down, him getting wet. Climbing up on the other side.
From the other end they are completely under cover all the way down the hill and through the woods. And we don't know if the audio was immediately following the video of him or minutes later.
Click to expand...

And what if the photos taken from the video were taken well before the "down the hill" command?

That could mean he walked by the girls at the south end of the bridge.. .hid in the bushes, waited until they started back across the bridge.. and then followed them. He could have intercepted them right at the north end of the bridge.. saw that the coast was clear down the trail doglegging to his left.. .then walked them to the right across the side of the hill a half a mile to the down the hill section.

She managed somehow to turn on the video the second time (maybe in her back pocket), where his menacing voice is heard with the command.

That too, is possible I think.

Doesn't really matter unless they can identify this horrible murderer and ultimately bring him to justice.
 
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