Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Deleted member 278]

From Oxygen.

Paul Holes, the retired detective that helped crack the Golden State Killer case, said there may be good reason why investigators are tight-lipped about some aspects of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

Paul Holes said that the investigators working on the Delphi Murders have a tough road ahead, but notes that it appears they are developing a strategy. He also defended Indiana law enforcement's decision to not release too many details to the public.

The case referred to as the Delphi murders involves the killing of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, who were found dead on Valentine’s Day 2017. They vanished from the Delphi Historic Trails, where they'd been out hiking on a day off from school. Their bodies were found about a half mile away from the hiking trail.

Earlier this year, police received thousands of tips after releasing a new sketchalong with audio and video clips of the man they think is responsible.

However, investigators have remained tight-lipped about key elements of the case, including how the girls died. Although police have released some video of the suspect, recorded on German’s phone, they haven’t released the full footage.

Holes, a retired detective who helped solve the Golden State Killer case and now works as a consultant, said there is probably good reason for that.

“Anytime you’re dealing with an investigation, you’re always assessing what can be released to the public and what you have to hold back,” he toldOxygen Digital Correspondent Stephanie Gomulka at CrimeCon 2019. Holes is hosting the convention.

He added, “Law enforcement, when they hold back information it's not to keep the public in the dark — it really is to help benefit the case.”

Holes said that, while he can’t speak specifically to investigators' inside decision-making, from afar, he believes he sees them developing a strategy.

“Knowing a little bit about that case, because I briefly consulted with one of the investigators shortly after the Golden State Killer case, I know that they have a tough investigation ahead, and they are doing everything they can to try to get that case solved.”

And, there is a lot of hope that the case will be solved.

“I am just as hopeful now as I was before," Kelsi German, sister of Liberty German told Oxygen.com this week."They [law enforcement] are just advancing on different things.”

At a news conference held last month, Indiana State Police Superintendent Douglas G. Carter said he believes the suspect lives in Delphi. He added that he think it’s possible investigators have already interviewed the killer or that he may have even been in the room during the presser.

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight,” he said. “For more than two years, you never thought we’d shift gears to a new investigative strategy, but we have.”

Anyone with information about the case may call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at 844-459-5786; the Indiana State Police at 800-382-7537; the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at 765-564-2413; or by email to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I wonder if the person who dropped them at the bridge told anyone she did that ( not family), and also I wonder if the family member who was to pick them up told anyone he was going to do that( since there was a delay between the time he was asked and him actually going to get them)...just an interesting thought.

additionally, there are MANY groups that use that area for recreation, including hunting groups, boyscouts, photogs, university employees and groups that are trying to "save" the bridge and expand the recreation area. All these people would know the area VERY well. The bridge seems to be very popular in the area and there are tons of articles that revolve around it and the Deer Creek reserve.

I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit. BP, TG, KG, and DG definitely knew the girls were leaving to go to the trail. BP said she told LG to clear it with AW’s mom so that’s possibly another one. KG said she was talking to her BF when she was on the way so that’s potentially one more person. Any one of them could’ve innocently mentioned it and the wrong person found out.

The other thing I’ve been thinking about is the time they left to go to the trail was spontaneous, but was the desire to go? They may have been talking amongst themselves (or with others) about wanting to go the previous evening or even earlier that morning.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Thinking out loud...

With Purdue University being less than a half hr away, I am wondering how familar students from Purdue would be with Monon High Bridge and the area?

Someone who once attended Purdue (or dated someone who attended) could have familiarized themself with this trail in the past and then had reason to be in Delphi that day to act upon a long thought out sick urge.

JMO

 

[Jabarn]

And the I-

And the I-5 Killer.

So I am going to be somewhat disruptive to the current thinking BG is a local and familiar to the bridge and the trails, and intimate with the city of Delphi itself, because he is either from there or visits on a regular basis. Carter said at the last press conference and there has to be some clues to back that up.

That’s why it’s so hard to not at least take a peak at the underbelly of the town and connections of a local sort.
But with time going by, why is it so hard to sort out the locals?

All that to say, what if he wasn’t a local at all, but a person driving through and had some time to kill? He figured out the bridge and the trails and waited. Not sure I really believe that, but am willing to consider all angles, and truly hope the FBI is helping out with the DNA (I know, I know, there may not be any of forensic use).

Hopefully, CrimeCon will get the great minds there stirring. https://www.crimecon.com/crimecon-2019-home

 

[NmJustSleuthinHbu]

Have LE said whether or not the "vehicle of interest" is a car or a truck?

I ask because there is a video of a local news report interviewing Delphi residents after the April press conference, and one of them says (regarding the new requests for info about this vehicle) "Now, after two years, I don't know if that's going to help much. Who's gonna remember if they seen a truck there two years ago?"

This comment makes sense in four scenarios: A) LE has publicly or privately let it be known that the vehicle is a truck (I'm unaware of this being true), B) The person just assumed it was a truck (certainly possible), C) The person misheard/misremembered the press conference as using "truck" rather than "vehicle," D) The person knew it was a truck (unclear what this would entail)

Edit: Here is the link:

Skip to 0:35. I was hesitant to post it, because the person is identified in the report. Obviously, it's still just a publicly available news report, but I'm not super familiar with the rules around here in this context where someone is personally identified. Also, I think there's a rule saying that you can't quote someone from a mainstream source without a citation, so I also don't know if the link actually would be required to substantiate the quote. If inappropriate, mods please remove and let me know.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

My mind changes weekly on this case. One week I have my POI and am convinced it is him then I learn different information about the case and I am leaning towards a different POI.
It will probably turn out like the Jayme Closs case and be someone no one would have ever suspected
This case drives me CRAZY!!

Quoted BBM
I so agree with you!

I believe that it will be a shock when it is revealed who gets arrested for these sick murders.

I also think that LE is tightening the noose as I type this. They are building a case that will be difficult to be challenged!

Its only a matter of time....
Tick, tock BG.

JMO

 

[Jabarn]

Have LE said whether or not the "vehicle of interest" is a car or a truck?

I ask because there is a video of a local news report interviewing Delphi residents after the April press conference, and one of them says (regarding the new requests for info about this vehicle) "Now, after two years, I don't know if that's going to help much. Who's gonna remember if they seen a truck there two years ago?"

This comment makes sense in four scenarios: A) LE has publicly or privately let it be known that the vehicle is a truck (I'm unaware of this being true), B) The person just assumed it was a truck (certainly possible), C) The person misheard/misremembered the press conference as using "truck" rather than "vehicle," D) The person knew it was a truck (unclear what this would entail)

It might have been an investigatory slip up where privied information is inadvertently shared. Like with the “she” shared was at a major press conference about one of the witnesses. Do you have a link? TIA.

 

[allboys]

It's a good suggestion as to what the 'new bit of information' that was ' constantly reviewed and examined' may be , however, I tend to agree that we've probably seen the image as good as it can be. Given that, what else could the reviewed and examined bit of info that leads to the release of a younger image be?

Esp as the younger image is an early sketch. The new bit of info led to the decision to release already held image, not generate a new one.

Well, wishful thinking could have us hope that they may have gleaned some “new information” via new DNA evaluating techniques.

“And soon, scientists may be able to find out even more from an offender’s DNA—including their age.

A new forensic approach analyzes the chemical tags attached to DNA, rather than genetic sequences themselves. These molecules, which can switch genes on and off, get added onto DNA throughout our life span in a process called DNA methylation. And because the patterns of DNA methylation change as we age, they could provide a good indication of how old a suspect is.
DNA methylation change as we age, they could provide a good indication of how old a suspect is.”

Source: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...al-suspect-s-age-and-whether-they-have-cancer

 

[NmJustSleuthinHbu]

It might have been an investigatory slip up where privied information is inadvertently shared. Like with the “she” shared was at a major press conference about one of the witnesses. Do you have a link? TIA.

Skip to 0:35. I've edited my comment above to include it as well. Again, mods please remove if inappropriate.

 

[Harlow]

MOO to all of what I say below. I have been following this case since the beginning and was among the very frustrated with the seemingly endless investigation that appeared to be fruitless.

I apologize if these things have been said, I can’t catch up with all of these threads so please forgive me. I just need to say it to someone.

I have a question: Correct me if I am wrong please, as news sites often provide misinformation. Is it a fact that RL is the only one who has been officially cleared by LE out of all of the people they’ve spoken to? (FTR, I never thought he was involved so my thoughts are not toward him in any way)

And some thoughts:

I have been watching the presser over and over trying to process what the words being said really meant...a moment ago things in my head just clicked, a lightbulb went off and my jaw dropped.

I really think the choice of words being used is the key here.

-From Delphi

-Hiding in plain sight

-In this room or very close but definitely watching (this to me was a very telling statement. I feel they do in fact believe he was there otherwise wouldn’t they have simply phrased it as “we know you’re watching” or “we know you’re close?” Or something similar? Very telling IMO.

-May have spoken to him or someone close to him

- “What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls?“

-“You never thought we’d change our strategy.”(hmmm)

-Advised to study his mannerisms and later stated to picture the body without a head—that someone will be able to ID him by his body which IMO pulls the focus completely off of his face.

One thing that stumps me is the odd mentioning of “The Shack”, in that book/movie, isn’t the little girl the victim of a serial killer? Could this mean something more than just a casual mention?

It didn’t seem to have any relevance to what he said immediately following mentioning “The Shack.”
I’m feeling like it was some type of strategic move. I’m unable to tie the serial killer angle to everything else that has been said/released though. Is it a common belief that these were not his first victims?

I know there are some parallels with other cases but I thought that theory was sort of pushed aside.

Yikes.....I think when all of this comes to light (and I truly think it will) that people will be absolutely dumbfounded.

If I’ve broken any of the rules that have likely changed since I last posted here...forgive me. I’ve been fighting Lymphoma the last year & a half & chemo brain is no joke.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Indeed. So, why doesn't anyone apparently recognise him in the pic or in the sketch? Or why aren't they turning him in if they do recognise him, more to the point really?

No doubt WS-ers will recall Supt. DC's comment (an interesting one, I thought) that the suspect is (my paraphrase) "somewhere [in appearance] between..." [the older-looking suspect and the younger-looking suspect], and... that the sketches (again, my paraphrase here) are not a photographic representation of the suspect. Well! That's just a bunch of mush-mash (to quote @Cutiekitty) in my brain, that "between" language. Still... (just "me", again)... I believe (though I realize it's hugely unpopular) that the suspect is connected to Delphi, has all kinds of people he knows (perhaps works with, or is related to) there.

But "Delphians" (sorry) are terrified, should they/one of their friends/co-workers just spill.the.beans. And who wouldn't be? This is the "IRL" about which many people speak/write. Imagine yourself in their shoes -- knowing exactly who he is, yet...just not even sure what could transpire, were you to blow his cover? That's the stuff of "scary" and sleepless nights, I'm betting, for at least a few who live in that once-quiet little Indiana town.

In short: the suspect looks like neither the older-guy sketch or the younger-guy sketch (MOO); yet...the suspect does have certain (my words) "elements" of each of the two sketches. But which elements? (I can already imagine someone saying that right now, as they're reading this. ) Can't say for sure (and, for LE to reveal "which elements" would, IMO, jeopardize the investigation).

Why the locals have not "nailed" the suspect? FWIW, please go back to read my post of a few days ago on that topic. Succinctly: the ones who know are, very literally, shaking with fear -- especially (MOO) for their own lives, as well as for their futures. What good is "reward money" if you're not alive to spend it? (It's rather creepy, to even ponder the suspect's going after his own family/friends who might this moment so want to "tell all"...) All just my own ramblings.

 

[Jabarn]

No doubt WS-ers will recall Supt. DC's comment (an interesting one, I thought) that the suspect is (my paraphrase) "somewhere [in appearance] between..." [the older-looking suspect and the younger-looking suspect], and... that the sketches (again, my paraphrase here) are not a photographic representation of the suspect.

In short: the suspect looks like neither the older-guy sketch or the younger-guy sketch (MOO); yet...the suspect does have certain (my words) "elements" of each of the two sketches. But which elements? (I can already imagine someone saying that right now, as they're reading this. ) Can't say for sure (and, for LE to reveal "which elements" would, IMO, jeopardize the investigation.

Why the locals have not "nailed" the suspect? FWIW, please go back to read my post of a few days ago on that topic. Succinctly: the ones who know are, very literally, shaking with fear -- especially (MOO) for their own lives, as well as for their futures. What good is "reward money" if you're not alive to spend it? (It's rather creepy, to even ponder the suspect's going after his own family/friends who might this moment so want to "tell all"...) All just my own ramblings.

All I can make of it, from following this case, is the age bracket of BG is transitioned to the possibility of a younger guy. Eighteen is young. I don’t think they know for sure who did it, but something is causing them to lean toward a possibly younger BG. That with the local ties should have (and seemingly did) produced a lot of tips, but still we wait.

 

[Jabarn]

Skip to 0:35. I've edited my comment above to include it as well. Again, mods please remove if inappropriate.

I don’t think it’s inappropriate at all, but not sure it’s information that helps, since she might have only said truck as an aside. JMO. Thanks for sharing... there is so much information to pull together.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

True. The police know he probably has close ties, but are aware someone could scouted the area well in advance to fake that local knowledge.

BBM
Respectfully disagree, @Boxer: I don't think (based on the trail's location itself, and various ways to enter/exit it, plus the whole thing of zipping along a fairly high bridge-minus-railings) that the suspect "faked" that knowledge; he.is.a.local (or, at the very least has been a local in the fairly recent past, enough to know the trail, the layout, etc.). MOO

 

[moonlessnight]

I continue to believe that the tip they need must come from family. In my scenario, the vehicle and who was driving it will be the one piece they need. The family needs to identity which family member was driving the vehicle so they have probable cause to test the driver's DNA. What I don't understand is why they can't test DNA of all registered owners of all vehicles noted as being in the area (parked) at the time of the murders and/or during the search. There are very few people who can ID the person driving or sitting in the parked vehicle at the time of the murders, or before or after them. Those people would include family/other registered owners, and other people in the parking lots who may not realize what/who they saw.

Can they not interview everyone who used any of those lots that day (Trailhead lot, DCS, cemetary)?

No doubt WS-ers will recall Supt. DC's comment (an interesting one, I thought) that the suspect is (my paraphrase) "somewhere [in appearance] between..." [the older-looking suspect and the younger-looking suspect], and... that the sketches (again, my paraphrase here) are not a photographic representation of the suspect. Well! That's just a bunch of mush-mash (to quote @Cutiekitty) in my brain, that "between" language. Still... (just "me", again)... I believe (though I realize it's hugely unpopular) that the suspect is connected to Delphi, has all kinds of people he knows (perhaps works with, or is related to) there.

But "Delphians" (sorry) are terrified, should they/one of their friends/co-workers just spill.the.beans. And who wouldn't be? This is the "IRL" about which many people speak/write. Imagine yourself in their shoes -- knowing exactly who he is, yet...just not even sure what could transpire, were you to blow his cover? That's the stuff of "scary" and sleepless nights, I'm betting, for at least a few who live in that once-quiet little Indiana town.

In short: the suspect looks like neither the older-guy sketch or the younger-guy sketch (MOO); yet...the suspect does have certain (my words) "elements" of each of the two sketches. But which elements? (I can already imagine someone saying that right now, as they're reading this. ) Can't say for sure (and, for LE to reveal "which elements" would, IMO, jeopardize the investigation).

Why the locals have not "nailed" the suspect? FWIW, please go back to read my post of a few days ago on that topic. Succinctly: the ones who know are, very literally, shaking with fear -- especially (MOO) for their own lives, as well as for their futures. What good is "reward money" if you're not alive to spend it? (It's rather creepy, to even ponder the suspect's going after his own family/friends who might this moment so want to "tell all"...) All just my own ramblings.

 

[Cutiekitty]

MOO to all of what I say below. I have been following this case since the beginning and was among the very frustrated with the seemingly endless investigation that appeared to be fruitless.

I apologize if these things have been said, I can’t catch up with all of these threads so please forgive me. I just need to say it to someone.

I have a question: Correct me if I am wrong please, as news sites often provide misinformation. Is it a fact that RL is the only one who has been officially cleared by LE out of all of the people they’ve spoken to? (FTR, I never thought he was involved so my thoughts are not toward him in any way)

And some thoughts:

I have been watching the presser over and over trying to process what the words being said really meant...a moment ago things in my head just clicked, a lightbulb went off and my jaw dropped.

I really think the choice of words being used is the key here.

-From Delphi

-Hiding in plain sight

-In this room or very close but definitely watching (this to me was a very telling statement. I feel they do in fact believe he was there otherwise wouldn’t they have simply phrased it as “we know you’re watching” or “we know you’re close?” Or something similar? Very telling IMO.

-May have spoken to him or someone close to him

- “What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls?“

-“You never thought we’d change our strategy.”(hmmm)

-Advised to study his mannerisms and later stated to picture the body without a head—that someone will be able to ID him by his body which IMO pulls the focus completely off of his face.

One thing that stumps me is the odd mentioning of “The Shack”, in that book/movie, isn’t the little girl the victim of a serial killer? Could this mean something more than just a casual mention?

It didn’t seem to have any relevance to what he said immediately following mentioning “The Shack.”
I’m feeling like it was some type of strategic move. I’m unable to tie the serial killer angle to everything else that has been said/released though. Is it a common belief that these were not his first victims?

I know there are some parallels with other cases but I thought that theory was sort of pushed aside.

Yikes.....I think when all of this comes to light (and I truly think it will) that people will be absolutely dumbfounded.

If I’ve broken any of the rules that have likely changed since I last posted here...forgive me. I’ve been fighting Lymphoma the last year & a half & chemo brain is no joke.

This ^

 

[Deleted member 102539]

‘They Have A Tough Investigation Ahead:' Paul Holes On The Delphi Murders

Hello All, This was just posted on the Oxygen Network's website this morning. There is also a video. I'm hoping CrimeCon19 will broadcast the panel with Kelsi German today.

I wonder, what a "tough" investigation would be? An investigation against a respected citizen, who is perhaps protected from all angles? Or is it "tough", to search for the "lost" and now important witness statement/s within the thousand of tips from the early days of the investigation? - Maybe both.

 

[Boxer]

BBM
Respectfully disagree, @Boxer: I don't think (based on the trail's location itself, and various ways to enter/exit it, plus the whole thing of zipping along a fairly high bridge-minus-railings) that the suspect "faked" that knowledge; he.is.a.local (or, at the very least has been a local in the fairly recent past, enough to know the trail, the layout, etc.). MOO

I agree with that. I was thinking the person came 6 months earlier and scouted the location out.

 

[LuminiousVisions]

I continue to believe that the tip they need must come from family. In my scenario, the vehicle and who was driving it will be the one piece they need. The family needs to identity which family member was driving the vehicle so they have probable cause to test the driver's DNA.
(moonlessnight)

I agree 100%

 

[Angelcat13]

So I am going to be somewhat disruptive to the current thinking BG is a local and familiar to the bridge and the trails, and intimate with the city of Delphi itself, because he is either from there or visits on a regular basis. Carter said at the last press conference and there has to be some clues to back that up.

That’s why it’s so hard to not at least take a peak at the underbelly of the town and connections of a local sort.
But with time going by, why is it so hard to sort out the locals?

All that to say, what if he wasn’t a local at all, but a person driving through and had some time to kill? He figured out the bridge and the trails and waited. Not sure I really believe that, but am willing to consider all angles, and truly hope the FBI is helping out with the DNA (I know, I know, there may not be any of forensic use).

Hopefully, CrimeCon will get the great minds there stirring. https://www.crimecon.com/crimecon-2019-home

I DO think the Delphi killer is local. I was just mentioning the I-5 Killer to show that not all killers stick close to home.