Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[Backabeyond]

I agree, it seems unlikely he could have gained control without a visible weapon. I think it shows that at least upon setting foot on the trail, he had bad intentions. Prior to then, IDK.

But yes, crossing the creek is perplexing. That's the one and only piece of evidence (that we are given) which supports the idea of an attempted abduction, IMO. That's not a theory I've put much credence into, but the creek crossing does make me wonder.

Otherwise, as other posters have said, maybe the other side of the creek offered more privacy, or was less visible from the bridge? It's a quandary.

If it was an attempted abduction then it begs the question of where he was going to take them. The most likely spot seems the cemetery, so perhaps he was parked there? Though I don’t think was that. Isn’t there a path at the bottom of the hill not far from the creek? If so, then crossing the creek for privacy would make sense.

It’s likely he needed a weapon, but it is very common for adults to freeze up and be compliant when in danger, it’s not unbelievable that two little girls felt threatened and didnt react. Perhaps in part to a kind of diffusion of responsibility. If one doesn’t act or is compliant then maybe the other just follows suit. This is just speculation of course

 

[MistyWaters]

1:35 approx Abby and Libby dropped off at trail head across from M residence.

2:07 SC Photo

mention of a man they noticed behind them

the trail ends here, we can’t go any further.

2:30 BG Video

Guys...Down the hill

3:15 DG Arrives

Do I have this in the right order? Who wants to chime in?

Yes, for what it’s worth -
3:11pm Call to Libby from her dad goes unanswered.
3:14pm Libby’s dad arrives at the p/u location across from the M residence, calls again, still no answer.

 

[MistyWaters]

If it was an attempted abduction then it begs the question of where he was going to take them. The most likely spot seems the cemetery, so perhaps he was parked there? Though I don’t think was that. Isn’t there a path at the bottom of the hill not far from the creek? If so, then crossing the creek for privacy would make sense.

There’s also a small road directly under the SE end of the bridge. One direction, it becomes a private drive, the other it’s joins N 625W, a county road where the county Dump also happens to be located, only a very short distance away.

Carroll County Transfer Station

Coincidently, the Transfer Station is also reportedly where RL drove while disqualified that same day of the murders. How did LE find out I wonder? My imagination has me wondering if RL’s the witness who “saw something” that day at the dump and as a result he was forced to admit he was driving. But LE didn’t take him seriously and initially discounted his sighting because earlier he hadn’t been 100% truthful. JMO

 

[Backabeyond]

There’s also a small road directly under the SE end of the bridge. One direction, it becomes a private drive, the other it’s joins N 625W, a county road where the county Dump also happens to be located, only a very short distance away.

Carroll County Transfer Station

Coincidently, the Transfer Station is also reportedly where RL drove while disqualified that same day of the murders. How did LE find out I wonder? My imagination has me wondering if RL’s the witness who “saw something” that day at the dump and as a result he was forced to admit he was driving. But LE didn’t take him seriously and initially discounted his sighting because earlier he hadn’t been 100% truthful. JMO

Is the dump close enough to walk from and in the same direction from which BG approached? I also thought the witness was a woman. Also seems like they are more excited about a current witness, rather than someone they were talking to at the beginning of the investigation.

 

[tresir2012]

There’s also a small road directly under the SE end of the bridge. One direction, it becomes a private drive, the other it’s joins N 625W, a county road where the county Dump also happens to be located, only a very short distance away.

Carroll County Transfer Station

Coincidently, the Transfer Station is also reportedly where RL drove while disqualified that same day of the murders. How did LE find out I wonder? My imagination has me wondering if RL’s the witness who “saw something” that day at the dump and as a result he was forced to admit he was driving. But LE didn’t take him seriously and initially discounted his sighting because earlier he hadn’t been 100% truthful. JMO

He went to the dump around midday IIRC. Then to Lafayette to buy tropical fish returning around 6.30 supposedly unaware of anything till the neighbour
told him about the missing girls.

 

[cody22]

I mean it’s as valid as any other possibility, but it just seems to be more of a random encounter. Though even believing that i have to admit that he could’ve been hunting and finally got lucky in just a rural area. But if it’s a normal hunting ground, then he’s been seen there before.

That would work out well for "a BG" who lived in that immediate Park area.....moo

 

[TL4S]

If it was an attempted abduction then it begs the question of where he was going to take them. The most likely spot seems the cemetery, so perhaps he was parked there? Though I don’t think was that. Isn’t there a path at the bottom of the hill not far from the creek? If so, then crossing the creek for privacy would make sense.

It’s likely he needed a weapon, but it is very common for adults to freeze up and be compliant when in danger, it’s not unbelievable that two little girls felt threatened and didnt react. Perhaps in part to a kind of diffusion of responsibility. If one doesn’t act or is compliant then maybe the other just follows suit. This is just speculation of course

I also think the cemetery makes sense. IMO, if he was planning an abduction, he was leading them to a vehicle there. And if the plan was only murder, than crossing the creek put him very near the cemetery for a quick and easy getaway. JMO

 

[tresir2012]

Is the dump close enough to walk from and in the same direction from which BG approached? I also thought the witness was a woman. Also seems like they are more excited about a current witness, rather than someone they were talking to at the beginning of the investigation.

No it is more than a mile, possibly 2 from that end of the bridge and is approx south west of the SE end of the bridge where the girls were. BG is approaching from the NW end of the bridge in the video.

ETA it is also on the other side of the creek from RL's so a much longer distance by car.

 

[PoppyJune]

I think he has not been found because he has a very tight alibi. I can imagine someone looking at the video and saying. “You once had such a coat, remember?”, and the person would laugh and say, “luckily you all saw me that day (in the library? In the workshop? With my GF? Whatever), otherwise I would be in a tight bind now”. And the people would laugh, too.

I think he came, stayed for a while looking for the victim, killed them fast, and drove back to (wherever). “He was moving around quickly” to maintain his alibi, the mistake being that someone saw him not in the library, but in the yard, re-entering it, for example.

“He has to be local” only means that he could not drive far. I am thinking of leaving his car at the entrance of the place he was supposed to be in, so that people saw it, and taking another car, his GF’s one, for example. Which he would park at the back entrance and use.

He had to get rid of the clothes somewhere along the way, or left them somewhere and returned to pick up and wash. By the time the video emerged. they were long gone. I honestly think they were donated.

So whoever might recognize him (“sounds like my boyfriend’s voice”), immediately in her mind gives him alibi (“oh, but that day he had food poisoning/hangover/court date), not realizing that it was not as bad as she thinks. It is really about the visible tightness of the alibi and one breach that the person has not realized yet (or maybe did, and the LE just need someone to support it).

There are also rest stops on I-65 that would be easily accessible upon leaving Delphi to dump evidence, clothes, etc.
Again, “local” is open to interpretation here because there are several larger cities in this area that are not a far drive. We have Lafayette and Indianapolis or head north towards Chicago.
Although as I’ve said before, I do believe that he was familiar with the bridge area, at least in some capacity; From childhood or from traveling through the area and stopping by to stretch his legs.

 

[Backabeyond]

I also think the cemetery makes sense. IMO, if he was planning an abduction, he was leading them to a vehicle there. And if the plan was only murder, than crossing the creek put him very near the cemetery for a quick and easy getaway. JMO

I’d considered the possibility that maybe he saw them dropped off, so he went to the cemetery, walked through the woods and emerged onto the path at the bridge.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the whole 'car to get around quickly' statement is letting the suspect know that his alibi is not airtight

You may be very right, but one thing may be different: I think, they (LE) meant, he got around very quickly even without using the car and that is the whole dilemma. Where was the BG when and how did he get there and how did he manage to get his car at the end? In addition: when was he wearing what clothing? Did he change the clothing one time or two times or even three times and where did he change it? Where did he hide the clothing before changing and after changing? Where did he get rid of his murder tools?
"He got around quickly" - he was zig-zagging through the area like a bunny, using the car and on foot and it seemed, he was at the same time at more than one place. Like that perhaps.

 

[MsBetsy]

I still have trouble believing that only one person like BG could control two young girls in an open area like that .
Maybe the girls followed him because they knew him or were supposed to meet someone else there?He could have said he would bring them to meet so and so “ down the hill .”
The “guys” saying to me conveys familiarity between them.
IMO he could have walked them to the crime scene area where other accomplice(s) were waiting ?
If it was murder and no SA then there had to be another motive ? Just another unknown.. ugh.

I don't think one person would have difficulty controlling two young teenage girls, especially if he had a weapon, which I believe he did.
I think he said the word guys to get their attention before telling them what to do, whether he knew them or not. I don't think the girls recognized him since they did not seem to indicate that when they mentioned him.

I do think the crime could have been sexually motivated although that doesn't necessarily mean there was actual SA.

Either way I think the motive was just the thrill of killing them.
He has no respect for human life and I doubt he has any remorse at all.

I look forward to the day of his arrest. Imo

 

[TL4S]

I’d considered the possibility that maybe he saw them dropped off, so he went to the cemetery, walked through the woods and emerged onto the path at the bridge.

Yes, IMO, that's the path of least resistance. Park at back of cemetery, walk through woods to the north side of bridge (in case the girls weren't going to cross), then follow and corner them on south end of bridge. I think it's possible he killed them where he did simply because he could get back to his vehicle quickly and unseen. Just my current thinking.

 

[Backabeyond]

Yes, IMO, that's the path of least resistance. Park at back of cemetery, walk through woods to the north side of bridge (in case the girls weren't going to cross), then follow and corner them on south end of bridge. I think it's possible he killed them where he did simply because he could get back to his vehicle quickly and unseen. Just my current thinking.

Makes more sense than many other theories.

 

[MistyWaters]

Wasn't it reported that the witness who "saw something" was a woman? I can't keep track of witnesses...

No, just “a person”. It was first sighting which reportedly involved a female. I know what you mean, I have a hard time remembering what is what too.

“But this sketch is not new. The sketch released on Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported.”
Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

 

[MistyWaters]

You may be very right, but one thing may be different: I think, they (LE) meant, he got around very quickly even without using the car and that is the whole dilemma. Where was the BG when and how did he get there and how did he manage to get his car at the end? In addition: when was he wearing what clothing? Did he change the clothing one time or two times or even three times and where did he change it? Where did he hide the clothing before changing and after changing? Where did he get rid of his murder tools?
"He got around quickly" - he was zig-zagging through the area like a bunny, using the car and on foot and it seemed, he was at the same time at more than one place. Like that perhaps.

As LE did not state the reason they were looking for the driver of the car, we can’t assume it to have been the murderer. I think that’s an unlikely scenario given Carter asked the driver to please contact the officers at the Delphi command post.

 

[Boxer]

If it was an attempted abduction then it begs the question of where he was going to take them. The most likely spot seems the cemetery, so perhaps he was parked there? Though I don’t think was that. Isn’t there a path at the bottom of the hill not far from the creek? If so, then crossing the creek for privacy would make sense.

It’s likely he needed a weapon, but it is very common for adults to freeze up and be compliant when in danger, it’s not unbelievable that two little girls felt threatened and didnt react. Perhaps in part to a kind of diffusion of responsibility. If one doesn’t act or is compliant then maybe the other just follows suit. This is just speculation of course

MOO if abduction I would say his car was around the bend out of sight from the bridge, east towards snow birds house.
CR 625 essentially terminates at their house.

 

[Boxer]

If it was an attempted abduction then it begs the question of where he was going to take them. The most likely spot seems the cemetery, so perhaps he was parked there? Though I don’t think was that. Isn’t there a path at the bottom of the hill not far from the creek? If so, then crossing the creek for privacy would make sense.

It’s likely he needed a weapon, but it is very common for adults to freeze up and be compliant when in danger, it’s not unbelievable that two little girls felt threatened and didnt react. Perhaps in part to a kind of diffusion of responsibility. If one doesn’t act or is compliant then maybe the other just follows suit. This is just speculation of course

MOO Compliance is proportional to the proximity and how likely is is to be able to dodge the weapon.
That is why I see GBs "gait issues" as the initiation of a sprint.
Left foot turns out, next frame, right leg crosses over, MOO, then series quick steps along the edge to cut off Abby from reaching end by Libby.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think one person would have difficulty controlling two young teenage girls, especially if he had a weapon, which I believe he did.
I think he said the word guys to get their attention before telling them what to do, whether he knew them or not. I don't think the girls recognized him since they did not seem to indicate that when they mentioned him.

I do think the crime could have been sexually motivated although that doesn't necessarily mean there was actual SA.

Either way I think the motive was just the thrill of killing them.
He has no respect for human life and I doubt he has any remorse at all.

I look forward to the day of his arrest. Imo

I agree. I doubt many victims would complacently allow themselves to be assaulted or abducted especially if it was two against one. And in this era with knowledge of DNA and what not, I think the type of evidence ridden SAs that occurred in the 70s and 80s are far less common. Plus physical contact is not always a prerequisite of a SA motivated killing.

 

[MistyWaters]

Is the dump close enough to walk from and in the same direction from which BG approached? I also thought the witness was a woman. Also seems like they are more excited about a current witness, rather than someone they were talking to at the beginning of the investigation.

The county road, continuing north, turns into a private road which runs directly beneath the SE portion of the bridge.

If LE were excited about a current witness I think they wouldn’t still be appealing for that “one tip” to lead to the identification of the suspect.