Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[Boxer]

Where did the killer park his vehicle?

If he parked at the Freedom Bridge area over the Hoosier Highway wouldn't he have been seen by the "flannel shirt guy" when he walked back to his vehicle?

If he parked at the area where Kelsi German dropped off Abby and Libby, wouldn't police have questioned Kelsi about any other vehicles that may have been parked in the parking lot that day?

If he parked at the cemetery, wouldn't his pants be wet from first crossing the creek to get to the Monon High Bridge? The picture on Liberty German's phone looks like the person is wearing dry blue jeans. I guess there is the possibility the killer could have parked at the cemetery, then walked down to the entrance where Abby and Libby were dropped to gain entrance to the trails.

So where the killer parked while he committed the crime is a very good question.

MOO I don't think he parked at the cemetery, but if he did, it is possible to walk from the back of the cemetery over to the north end of the bridge. This route would be jumping over the wire fence marked no trespassing at the back of the cemetery then along a informal trail.

 

[TL4S]

Where did the killer park his vehicle?

If he parked at the Freedom Bridge area over the Hoosier Highway wouldn't he have been seen by the "flannel shirt guy" when he walked back to his vehicle?

If he parked at the area where Kelsi German dropped off Abby and Libby, wouldn't police have questioned Kelsi about any other vehicles that may have been parked in the parking lot that day?

If he parked at the cemetery, wouldn't his pants be wet from first crossing the creek to get to the Monon High Bridge? The picture on Liberty German's phone looks like the person is wearing dry blue jeans. I guess there is the possibility the killer could have parked at the cemetery, then walked down to the entrance where Abby and Libby were dropped to gain entrance to the trails.

So where the killer parked while he committed the crime is a very good question.

I think he could have parked at the cemetery and walked the woods to the north side of the bridge. From there he crossed the bridge(Liberty's video), forced the girls down the hill and across the creek, then walked 600 feet back to the cemetery afterwards. It's only my current guess because it's the simplest route.

 

[Ibiz]

That sketch one and sketch two are connected in some way doesn’t quite follow the tone of Carter’s comments.

BBM

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we'd shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power for you, and you want to know what we know," Carter said. "One day, you will."....”
‘We also believe this person is from Delphi’: Police release new sketch, additional information in Delphi murder investigation

I would assume both sketches were drawn from this photo.



It just seems that whoever made the first sketch thought the guy was wearing a hat. I really dont think ether is probably very accurate. The only thing that seems for sure is the guy has something(s) stuffed in his jacket, and he may not be as tall or heavy as to what is being speculated.

 

[HockeyMom330]

I would assume both sketches were drawn from this photo.

View attachment 189797

It just seems that whoever made the first sketch thought the guy was wearing a hat. I really dont think ether is probably very accurate. The only thing that seems for sure is the guy has something(s) stuffed in his jacket, and he may not be as tall or heavy as to what is being speculated.

BBM
JMO but I certainly think the first sketch, which was said to be a composite, was heavily influenced by the image on Libby's phone. I believe the second sketch was based exculsively on a tip from one witness and is not a composite. This is why I think it is possible that BG may turn out to look like a 'combination of the two' sketches as Carter so confusingly told the public. Remember that Carter said something along the lines of 'a sketch is not a photograph'. The second sketch is a drawing based on a witness and artists interpretation (so probably on target with some characteristics but not exact). The first sketch includes details from an actual photograph/video but it is so pixilated that it is hard to discern the finer details of his face. So some elements from both sketches should be accurate but neither one 100%.

 

[tresir2012]

That sketch one and sketch two are connected in some way doesn’t quite follow the tone of Carter’s comments.

BBM

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we'd shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power for you, and you want to know what we know," Carter said. "One day, you will."....”
‘We also believe this person is from Delphi’: Police release new sketch, additional information in Delphi murder investigation

WADR I think it does, in the sentence in your quote above "we likely have interviewed you or someone close to you"

In another post I elaborated on the possible scenarios as follows:-

2 scenarios where 1 he is known and 2 he is unknown.

1. Maybe they did identify him and rule him out, so then they would know who that is, but he had an alibi. They have gone back to him now and are trying to disprove the alibi.

2. The other possibility is they have several sketches from witnesses, who differ from each other. This is one they discarded earlier because he looks too young but now they are going back to it.

I believe we have scenario 1 in play in this case IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I would assume both sketches were drawn from this photo.

View attachment 189797

It just seems that whoever made the first sketch thought the guy was wearing a hat. I really dont think ether is probably very accurate. The only thing that seems for sure is the guy has something(s) stuffed in his jacket, and he may not be as tall or heavy as to what is being speculated.

According to LE neither sketch was drawn from the photo. Both sketches were reportedly a result of different witness sightings.

But there was no eye witness to the murders and nobody noted anything suspicious enough to alert LE when the town was still searching for the missing girls that same evening when foul play wasn’t suspected. So at times I admit I question the strength of either sighting. It’s disappointing the photo and audio didn’t result in an early arrest rather than possible misplaced trust in the accuracy of sketches IMO.

 

[TL4S]

I think he could have parked at the cemetery and walked the woods to the north side of the bridge. From there he crossed the bridge(Liberty's video), forced the girls down the hill and across the creek, then walked 600 feet back to the cemetery afterwards. It's only my current guess because it's the simplest route.

To add to this, I also wonder if he first went to the north side of the bridge because he a) didn't know if the girls were going to cross, and b) his original plan was to force them down the hill on the north side, never to cross the creek, but the girls started over the bridge before he had the chance?

 

[tresir2012]

However we have no way of knowing if the aerial video captured from the helicopter included the body recovery site. I’m thinking it’s highly possible it didn’t, with respect of the victims, their families, also protecting the integrity of the investigation.

I disagree. It is quite clear to me that the helicopter is over the crime scene area, which we also have shown in other photos of RL's land. That's how we know, by comparing all reports.

 

[MistyWaters]

I disagree. It is quite clear to me that the helicopter is over the crime scene area, which we also have shown in other photos of RL's land. That's how we know, by comparing all reports.

I’m not insisting, just thinking of what might’ve become a “fact” which LE indicates is false information, gleaned by the news.

The video of RL showing the reporter the area surrounded by yellow police tape “in his backyard” didn’t offer any indication of major forensic analysis at all and still appeared leaf strewn. Have you watched that particular video? If not I’ll try to find it.

 

[tresir2012]

I personally think the "new strategy" is looking directly at the person who gave them the first sketch, or at least one of the people who corroborated the info that led to the first sketch. The perp would never believe LE changed their strategy bc he is (one of) the one(s) who shone the light on the first sketch, and thought he had power over the investigation, directing attn away from himself. MOO.

"What, precisely is the 'new strategy' they are using...? There's this sketch....but what else?
They also say they 'know' it's about power for him....why? & why would they say he would believe they would 'never' use a new strategy...?"

Your first paragraph is what I think is happening and the strategy is to pysch him out. So that he wants to know what they know. It seems to be a mind game.

 

[Jax49]

I’m unable to find any other proof the bodies were found on RL’s property except his own interview with IE, pointing toward yellow police tape at the bottom of his property. In fact, I don’t recall LE ever mentioning one word connected to “on the other side of the river” or “crossing the river” or asking anyone for sightings of “a man who might have wet pant legs”. Maybe the girls were found somewhere along the river but on the same side as the bridge???

There are multiple MSM sources identifying RL as the owner of the property where they were located. Here is one.

ETA another source.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention

The man who owns the property in Delphi where two young girls were found dead last year will serve the remainder of his sentence on unrelated charges on home detention.

bbm

 

[MistyWaters]

WADR I think it does, in the sentence in your quote above "we likely have interviewed you or someone close to you"

In another post I elaborated on the possible scenarios as follows:-

2 scenarios where 1 he is known and 2 he is unknown.

1. Maybe they did identify him and rule him out, so then they would know who that is, but he had an alibi. They have gone back to him now and are trying to disprove the alibi.

2. The other possibility is they have several sketches from witnesses, who differ from each other. This is one they discarded earlier because he looks too young but now they are going back to it.

I believe we have scenario 1 in play in this case IMO.

Two years after the fact, I agree Carter can probably make that statement with a great deal of confidence. It’s actually not the first time it’s been mentioned and so I think doesn’t guarantee the suspect is known. They may not have the case wrapped up quite yet as Carter also said something about this was just the beginning.

March 14, 2017
“....Carroll County Prosecutor Robert Ives told FOX59 the law of averages favors that of the thousands of tips that have poured in and the hundreds of doors police and FBI agents have knocked on in connection with the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.

Investigators say they’ve possibly met the killer or killers, or may have the clue that will wrap up the case. They just don’t know it yet.

“I think there’s an excellent chance that in these tips, somebody has named the right person,” said Ives of the more than 13,000 submissions that have come in to investigators. “When you ask me, ‘Is it possible some police officer has talked to him?’ I think it’s extremely likely that’s happened.

“I think that’s possible, yes.”....”
Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

 

[tresir2012]

I’m not insisting, just thinking of what might’ve become a “fact” which LE indicates is false information, gleaned by the news.

The video of RL showing the reporter the area surrounded by yellow police tape “in his backyard” didn’t offer any indication of major forensic analysis at all and still appeared leaf strewn. Have you watched that particular video? If not I’ll try to find it.

Yes I have seen it thanks. I have also read that the bodies were found 50 feet from the waters edge and I can see the 36 minutes of action in the |RTV6 helicopter video. Then I have an opinion. Where have LE indicated false information about any of this? I don't follow you on that.

 

[tresir2012]

And this might be annoyingly nitpicky of me, but where the creek dips south, just southeast of the cemetery, the northern creek bank (well over 50 feet in) does not appear to belong to RL, which if the girls were literally found on his property, puts them either east or west of that dip, barely. It's hard to explain, but I don't know if Beacon photo snips are allowed through TOS.

Considering the statement about the girls being killed within minutes of the video (IIRC), I don't think BG walked them to the far east bank. Plus, once you get on RL's eastern creek access, the bank just doesn't look the same as in the crime scene photos (much more open, wider, sandy, and angled southeast). That's why I suspect (and could be WAY WRONG) they were near the creek directly south of the cemetery, which is about 600 ft from the cemetery.

They were found on RL land, south of the cemetery, 50 feet from the waters edge, many MSM sources documented this and they are in the media thread. The land has recently changed on Beacon Schneider I have noticed. (Link is also in the media thread page 38). It can be seen there is now a section that has been designated with no owner, but that was RL's land at the time of the crime.
HTH

 

[BNA]

Two years after the fact, I agree Carter can probably make that statement with a great deal of confidence. It’s actually not the first time it’s been mentioned and so I think doesn’t guarantee the suspect is known. They may not have the case wrapped up quite yet as Carter also said something about this was just the beginning.

March 14, 2017
“....Carroll County Prosecutor Robert Ives told FOX59 the law of averages favors that of the thousands of tips that have poured in and the hundreds of doors police and FBI agents have knocked on in connection with the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.

Investigators say they’ve possibly met the killer or killers, or may have the clue that will wrap up the case. They just don’t know it yet.

“I think there’s an excellent chance that in these tips, somebody has named the right person,” said Ives of the more than 13,000 submissions that have come in to investigators. “When you ask me, ‘Is it possible some police officer has talked to him?’ I think it’s extremely likely that’s happened.

“I think that’s possible, yes.”....”
Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

The question I have is: What constitutes and interview?

I am going to guess that an interview (as officially defined in LE circles) includes any verbal contact between LE and another party, no matter who initiated that contact, and no matter the substance of that contact. And, for me, that means not necessarily contact with those thought to be witnesses or suspects. Could be anybody who insinuated themselves into the case for any reason.....reporting, offers of assistance of any kind, and so on.

 

[Jabarn]

Two years after the fact, I agree Carter can probably make that statement with a great deal of confidence. It’s actually not the first time it’s been mentioned and so I think doesn’t guarantee the suspect is known. They may not have the case wrapped up quite yet as Carter also said something about this was just the beginning.

March 14, 2017
“....Carroll County Prosecutor Robert Ives told FOX59 the law of averages favors that of the thousands of tips that have poured in and the hundreds of doors police and FBI agents have knocked on in connection with the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.

Investigators say they’ve possibly met the killer or killers, or may have the clue that will wrap up the case. They just don’t know it yet.

“I think there’s an excellent chance that in these tips, somebody has named the right person,” said Ives of the more than 13,000 submissions that have come in to investigators. “When you ask me, ‘Is it possible some police officer has talked to him?’ I think it’s extremely likely that’s happened.

“I think that’s possible, yes.”....”
Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

Just thinking about the law of averages... at the same time thinking why there isn’t an arrest. Also, it’s important (at least to me) to think about the motive. That could narrow the leads and prior interviewees down.

Do you think it’s as simple as the motive isn’t understood?

 

[MistyWaters]

There are multiple MSM sources identifying RL as the owner of the property where they were located. Here is one.

ETA another source.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention



bbm

Oh no, I’m not denying it’s been widely reported the bodies were found on RL’s land. But as much as I can find, LE only disclosed the bodies were found on private land near the river. No doubt RL believes the bodies were found on his property but does he know that for sure or did he assume so, based on an area marked off by yellow police tape? (Police tape was placed in how many different areas?)

Below refers to “news” “out there” that is not accurate.
BBM

“And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

It appears it was the media who found RL, they were not directed to him through anything LE said. This is why I mentioned possibility that the “news” of the bodies discovered on RL’s property is what LE is referring to, in not being true. I’m just guessing....putting forth an idea out of the box as LE has never confirmed who is the property owner that I’ve been able to find.

“News 18 has been in Delphi all day talking with residents of the town. With less than 3,000 people, it's your typical place where everybody knows everyone else. But as hard as this situation has been, the town is trying to make the best of it by coming together.

"Who would have thought someone would have been murdered in my backyard," said Delphi resident Ron Logan, the owner of the property where the bodies were discovered...”
Delphi property owner speaks to News 18 after bodies found in backyard

 

[FinePrint]

It’s really not that far from the cemetery road to the edge of the water. It’s about .15 miles 241 feet or about a little over 1/2 a lap on a track. That is just a straight line though. I made a path from the end of the bridge going partway on the service road and across the creek at the sand bar to the estimated location of the scene and it was pretty much the same distance.

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106
Post 1156

I measured on google maps this morning as shown, from the south road of the cemetery to the water edge is 716 feet, but that’s google maps, maybe it’s not calculating correctly.

 

[k-mac]

This is my best estimated position:
Google Maps

thanks Jethro for all your informative posts.
I get so much out of them

a lot of posters point to the connection of the cemetery and get away etc as to the location of the crime scene.
imo I don't believe the location had any relevance to his escape route per say.
from a murderous perspective I reckon he simply wanted them to cross the creek as everybody knows the scent of a crime gets lost at the waters edge.
I think he knew the trails were relevant the other side of the water and he had a secluded place where no walkers would be coming by.
but I also don't think it was perfectly thought out and that's why just getting them across the creek would bide him time. that's all I see him concerned about.
no matter which direction he exited all he had to do was stay off the trails and hike through the scrub in the direction he was heading.
any which way...…

moo

 

[Cutiekitty]

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106
Post 1156

I measured on google maps this morning as shown, from the south road of the cemetery to the water edge is 716 feet, but that’s google maps, maybe it’s not calculating correctly.

You are right I was wrong - I meant meters. Sorry! It’s easier to visualize for me if the distance is meters. A track is about 400 meters so the distance is a little over 1/2 a track.

Edit: I measured from the right corner of the cemetery to where Jethro estimated the crime scene was.