Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[tresir2012]

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106
Post 1156

I measured on google maps this morning as shown, from the south road of the cemetery to the water edge is 716 feet, but that’s google maps, maybe it’s not calculating correctly.

Some reports said a mile East of Freedom bridge, and some said 5o feet from the waters edge, so plotting all that could also help.

 

[Jabarn]

thanks Jethro for all your informative posts.
I get so much out of them

a lot of posters point to the connection of the cemetery and get away etc as to the location of the crime scene.
imo I don't believe the location had any relevance to his escape route per say.
from a murderous perspective I reckon he simply wanted them to cross the creek as everybody knows the scent of a crime gets lost at the waters edge.
I think he knew the trails were relevant the other side of the water and he had a secluded place where no walkers would be coming by.
but I also don't think it was perfectly thought out and that's why just getting them across the creek would bide him time. that's all I see him concerned about.
no matter which direction he exited all he had to do was stay off the trails and hike through the scrub in the direction he was heading.
any which way...…

moo

So it seems with two young girls, you would expect SA as the motive, but nothing has been shared from that angle. If it was the motive, then BG may have assault intentions and a place to carry his (in FBI profiling lingo is “fantasy”) out. Maybe it was under the bridge and they ran across the creek. Maybe he had a spot on the other side of Deer Creek. Not hearing anything about it, one way or the other.

That’s why I think the motive is important to share (if known) because it might help the public help the investigators. All MO.

Edited to add... thanks for all of you working to figure the way BG got there and how he got out. It’s important and hope the investigators have a clear path on both. Not sure they do, though.

 

[k-mac]

also just wanted to bring up....
in the last presser about the vehicle. he says when referring to the car in the car park as 'the abandoned car.'
doesn't that mean they would have the car???in their possession??
if someone drive it away it wouldn't be abandoned...would it?

it was really late when I was listening to this so not confident about what was said, I will do it again and link when I have lunch.

moo

 

[FinePrint]

And this might be annoyingly nitpicky of me, but where the creek dips south, just southeast of the cemetery, the northern creek bank (well over 50 feet in) does not appear to belong to RL, which if the girls were literally found on his property, puts them either east or west of that dip, barely. It's hard to explain, but I don't know if Beacon photo snips are allowed through TOS.

Considering the statement about the girls being killed within minutes of the video (IIRC), I don't think BG walked them to the far east bank. Plus, once you get on RL's eastern creek access, the bank just doesn't look the same as in the crime scene photos (much more open, wider, sandy, and angled southeast). That's why I suspect (and could be WAY WRONG) they were near the creek directly south of the cemetery, which is about 600 ft from the cemetery.

You know you may be right on this. I can’t acess it on this device I’m on but I think it was Tuesday I posted Carroll County records with the associated map.

When you click on the parcel numbers it shows what I call an easement along the embankment. If you click on that area there is no ownership information available yet the properties north of that easement are recorded to RL

 

[TL4S]

thanks Jethro for all your informative posts.
I get so much out of them

a lot of posters point to the connection of the cemetery and get away etc as to the location of the crime scene.
imo I don't believe the location had any relevance to his escape route per say.
from a murderous perspective I reckon he simply wanted them to cross the creek as everybody knows the scent of a crime gets lost at the waters edge.
I think he knew the trails were relevant the other side of the water and he had a secluded place where no walkers would be coming by.
but I also don't think it was perfectly thought out and that's why just getting them across the creek would bide him time. that's all I see him concerned about.
no matter which direction he exited all he had to do was stay off the trails and hike through the scrub in the direction he was heading.
any which way...…

moo

From the bridge, the direction he took them really does seem the best way to get out of sight from the bridge, the roads, the trails, and the houses. He either knew the back woods well, or he simply took them in a direction that seemed out of view.

The creek did offer some privacy, but at the cost of possibly getting cold and wet himself.

You're right, his parking location may not have anything to do with where he committed the crimes. Or it could have everything. I guess it's impossible to say at this point.

 

[Jabarn]

also just wanted to bring up....
in the last presser about the vehicle. he says when referring to the car in the car park as 'the abandoned car.'
doesn't that mean they would have the car???in their possession??
if someone drive it away it wouldn't be abandoned...would it?

it was really late when I was listening to this so not confident about what was said, I will do it again and link when I have lunch.

moo

As memory serves, it wasn’t the car that was abandoned per se, but the building where it was parked was abandoned.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just thinking about the law of averages... at the same time thinking why there isn’t an arrest. Also, it’s important (at least to me) to think about the motive. That could narrow the leads and prior interviewees down.

Do you think it’s as simple as the motive isn’t understood?

I strongly agree, I think it’s very important too - LE exploring all possible motives is typically what leads to a suspect and arrest. The odds always strongly lean toward the murderer knowing the victim and yet only recently has the focus been placed back on people with a strong connection to Delphi.

In my heart I sincerely hope LE didn’t get caught up in the excitement of a nation-wide manhunt along with the high profile media sensationalism that goes along with it....meanwhile overlooking suspects literally on their own doorstep.

 

[Jax49]

Oh no, I’m not denying it’s been widely reported the bodies were found on RL’s land. But as much as I can find, LE only disclosed the bodies were found on private land near the river. No doubt RL believes the bodies were found on his property but does he know that for sure or did he assume so, based on an area marked off by yellow police tape? (Police tape was placed in how many different areas?)

Below refers to “news” “out there” that is not accurate.
BBM

“And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

It appears it was the media who found RL, they were not directed to him through anything LE said. This is why I mentioned possibility that the “news” of the bodies discovered on RL’s property is what LE is referring to, in not being true. I’m just guessing....putting forth an idea out of the box as LE has never confirmed who is the property owner that I’ve been able to find.

“News 18 has been in Delphi all day talking with residents of the town. With less than 3,000 people, it's your typical place where everybody knows everyone else. But as hard as this situation has been, the town is trying to make the best of it by coming together.

"Who would have thought someone would have been murdered in my backyard," said Delphi resident Ron Logan, the owner of the property where the bodies were discovered...”
Delphi property owner speaks to News 18 after bodies found in backyard

Interesting thoughts, but I have no doubt they were found on RL's property. No doubt whatsoever. moo

 

[Jabarn]

I strongly agree, I think it’s very important too - LE exploring all possible motives is typically what leads to a suspect and arrest. The odds always strongly lean toward the murderer knowing the victim and yet only recently has the focus been placed back on people with a strong connection to Delphi.

In my heart I sincerely hope LE didn’t get caught up in the excitement of a nation-wide manhunt along with the high profile media sensationalism that goes along with it....meanwhile overlooking suspects literally on their own doorstep.

I do wonder about that, because if it wasn’t a SA type crime, other motives should, and probably are, being considered.

 

[FinePrint]

Some reports said a mile East of Freedom bridge, and some said 5o feet from the waters edge, so plotting all that could also help.

That all sounds about right. Monday on the thread I posted a map with locations marked, sounds about right that Freedom Bridge is about a mile from the waters edge south of the cemetery as I measured to the CPS building which isn’t far from the Freedom Bridge to be just a little over a mile.

50 feet from the waters edge is probably close to be about right, I estimated about 100 feet but that was just my best estimate .

 

[Cutiekitty]

I do wonder about that, because if it wasn’t a SA type crime, other motives should, and probably are, being considered.

I’m thinking the same.

 

[FinePrint]

You are right I was wrong - I meant meters. Sorry! It’s easier to visualize for me if the distance is meters. A track is about 400 meters so the distance is a little over 1/2 a track.

Edit: I measured from the right corner of the cemetery to where Jethro estimated the crime scene was.

Well your much brighter than I am....55 years old and still can’t figure out the metric system! Lol!

 

[Cutiekitty]

Well your much brighter than I am....55 years old and still can’t figure out the metric system! Lol!

Lol! I said 200 or so feet then used the example of 1/2 a track. Not so bright.

I was really shocked when I realized the distance. Basically stand in the middle of the curve on the outside lane on a track and get a friend to stand in the middle of the opposite curve and go 15 feet off the track and that’s the distance.

The total outside lane is actually 450ish meters and the total inside is 407ish meters. Now everyone knows I am full of useless knowledge and use weird ways to visualize distances.

 

[oksooner]

I do wonder about that, because if it wasn’t a SA type crime, other motives should, and probably are, being considered.

I definitely think there was a motive and not a random crime

 

[k-mac]

deleted by me

 

[MistyWaters]

Here I have no idea what RL was talking about but maybe he just got caught up in the media frenzy because there were no photographs of “the girls” taken where the bridge meets land.

BBM

“The high bridge is right across the creek here, and it runs all the way down across the creek and the land joins together. The spot where they join together is the last area where there were photographs of the girls. They would have had to come over through this territory…not an easy trip," said Logan.”
Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies

 

[Jabarn]

Lol! I said 200 or so feet then used the example of 1/2 a track. Not so bright.

I was really shocked when I realized the distance. Basically stand in the middle of the curve on the outside lane on a track and get a friend to stand in the middle of the opposite curve and go 15 feet off the track and that’s the distance.

The total outside lane is actually 450ish meters and the total inside is 407ish meters. Now everyone knows I am full of useless knowledge and use weird ways to visualize distances.

Oh my, a track is a very helpful analogy on understanding land covered, especially for us in America where track running is measured in meters. So just to be sure, FinePrint and you are talking about the distance from where the girls were found to the cemetery?

Could prob look it up, but does anyone have a pic of the parking lot at the cemetery?

 

[kkdj]

listen from 1.30.

he definitely states specifically looking for the driver of an abandoned car

But they're only looking for a time frame between 12 and 5. So a driver took the abandoned car? Did he steal it?

 

[MistyWaters]

listen from 1.30.

he definitely states specifically looking for the driver of an abandoned car

Yeah he asks could they please contact officers at the Delphi command center. Thats why I don’t think he was referring to the suspect given the harsh tone of his later comments directed toward him.

 

[Jethro4WS]

You know you may be right on this. I can’t acess it on this device I’m on but I think it was Tuesday I posted Carroll County records with the associated map.

When you click on the parcel numbers it shows what I call an easement along the embankment. If you click on that area there is no ownership information available yet the properties north of that easement are recorded to RL

Those property changes occurred after the murders - many months and likely a year or two after - not before. The attached image is what Beacon had shown back at the time of the murders.