Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[x_files]

yes, i agree, he saw them dropped off, or somehow otherwise knew they were alone. they are not of driving age and he would have likely needed to know they were unescorted and not with another adult nearby and out of sight.

Did Libby have FB App on her phone? If so anyone on her FB friend's list can look up Who is Near Me. It's a feature that's been around at least two years. It lets you know who is around you! I'd assume LE would know about this feature. If her FB account was public anyone with an account can see who is Near By.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

So........ it was The Hoff right?

Nooo! Then I would have fainted!

 

[Cutiekitty]

I disagree with you completely. I don't feel she was in any way irresponsible. I am posting the video so you can see her exact comment in the proper context. @1:45

You should disagree with me. I do too. I rescind my comment reference Maureen and apply it to the lady in red. She is the one that actually made the irresponsible comment.

I don’t think commentators need to be LE cheerleaders, LE does mess up sometimes. I do think if former/current LE is going to comment on national TV it should be constructive unless criticism is actually warranted. Saying if they don’t arrest in certain amount of time isn’t constructive, responsible, or warranted in this case IMO. The lady has no clue what is has been going on in the investigation nor does she know what investigative strategy is currently being employed going forward.

I know people on here and other sites comment and make predictions, but for the most part we aren’t LE, pretty sure we haven’t seen any case evidence, we aren’t getting paid for our opinions and we aren’t going on national TV . That is okay with me.

 

[tresir2012]

MOO Compliance is proportional to the proximity and how likely is is to be able to dodge the weapon.
That is why I see GBs "gait issues" as the initiation of a sprint.
Left foot turns out, next frame, right leg crosses over, MOO, then series quick steps along the edge to cut off Abby from reaching end by Libby.

Frightening and possible. But weren't they already off the end by this stage? ( 2.30 vs SC pic 2.07) Then this was perhaps followed by " Guys, this is private property so you need to go down the hill."

He could even have also said " I'll show you the way across the creek to short cut back to the trail". What option would they have had really rather than do what the adult is telling them? AJMOO

 

[Cutiekitty]

Well.. in my opinion, he HAD TO HAVE some kind of weapon to control/kill 2 girls. I still think given the place he ended up leaving them, that this assault had to be very well planned out.

What I scratch my head about: A creek crossing doesn't make sense to me at all. Unless they were killed on the south side of the creek and then dragged one by one across to the other side. That doesn't sound very likely either.

So, I agree he had a plan.. may have been seen there multiple other days when someone alone (or two young people) were not around to trap. The situation had to be right. A week day. Nobody within sight on the north or south end of the bridge.

So much does not make any sense. Once the guy gets caught, I hope there is a full confession so they can not put the family thru a trial). Maybe then, we will get details.

BBM - me either.

 

[Cutiekitty]

1:35 approx Abby and Libby dropped off at trail head across from M residence.

2:07 SC Photo

mention of a man they noticed behind them

the trail ends here, we can’t go any further.

2:30 BG Video

Guys...Down the hill

3:15 DG Arrives

Do I have this in the right order? Who wants to chime in?

I’m pretty sure no one on here wants to hear my thoughts on the times (with the exception of when DG arrives).

 

[Thelastleg]

I agree there’s no reason to assume anything given lack of factual information. What we do best is toss around theories!

RLs property consists of 40 acres and looking at google map, the house appears to be the furthest distance possible on the opposite corner of his land. Accordingly to his interview, the land slopes steeply downward as well, possibly why it’s not all cultivated. However the home at the end of the private drive was very close to the crime scene, as well as a couple others although we don’t know if they were occupied at the time of the murders.

This is my very rough and amateurish attempt to highlight a google map of the area, the SE portion of the bridge (yellow), the road (green) the appx location where the bodies were found (red), along with white circles indicating other residences. RLs is likely the furthest, up top. Google maps can also be deceptive in proximity as the landscape is definitely not flat.

View attachment 188808

Interesting. Can you tell me whereabouts the cemetery is in relation to the crime scene on your map please?

 

[tresir2012]

I was thinking today, how close do I need to be to provide for a tight alibi?

To leave my car at the parking lot and leave through the back door and use another car (or maybe the guy was driving a motorcycle? even a bike would do) is not a problem.

But the traffic in our area is horrible, so I could not drive 15 miles without being hopelessly stuck for 30 minutes. So for myself, I gave "no more than 5 miles from my work".

However, rural Indiana is not that congested. 10 miles could be easy. I think he might have used a motorcycle and parked the car at the front of (whatever building was supposed to provide the alibi). Or vise versa.

And, I think he is somewhat known to the people of Delphi. One thing I know, if a total stranger appears in a small rural area, he would draw attention. So he has to have been there and is not totally unknown to people, either lives there, or visits someone, anyhow, it is not an unknown face.

I even wonder if the assumed mistake that the police had made was too predictable, too common. Maybe they believed a too-believable alibi and checked it ("did you see such-and-such at work on February 13th? Oh, he was at work... Fine, thank you"). And perhaps they even saw the video showing the person entering the building at 8 AM and leaving it at 5 pm... from the front camera. And maybe there was a camera in the back of the building, and no one checked it, as the situation looked totally believable. And now the recording is long gone.

Or, the person says, "I was in the library, writing a paper", and they check the computer, and there is evidence of the paper being written, but the person changed the clock? I am thinking it could have been something like "playing game with my friends on my computer” (because to me he looks like he likes gaming), and it looks ok, but later they realized that he reset the clock? Or it was set for a different time zone? Something like it. Just an idea. MOO.

(When I post on some forums, the time always comes wrong, and I wonder if it could make or break my potential alibi. Probably the FBI would know, but the local police may not immediately think of it if their suspicion index re. me is low to start with).

I don't know if we can assume. In the country like that a small caliber gun such as a .22 or a .25 would not have drawn that much attention. Even a larger caliber would not draw that much attention as folks would assume someone was shooting a varmint.

That also may be the reason he walked the girls away from the trails - assuming being across the creek was planned. A gunshot away from the trails may be assumed to be from one of the nearby farms. My problem with that is, if RL was at home he would have heard and possibly knew it was on his property. Did the killer scout out the property ahead of time and knew there were no cars at the homes near the cemetery? He either scouted this out in advance or he got VERY lucky.

I think he knew RL was gone and that the property at the end of the bridge was empty and he had an alibi sorted in some way (left his phone at home?). He then acted officious and got them away from the bridge via a ruse or by force or both. Moo

 

[tresir2012]

I’m pretty sure no one on here wants to hear my thoughts on the times (with the exception of when DG arrives).

Yes I do please.

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting. Can you tell me whereabouts the cemetery is in relation to the crime scene on your map please?

The cemetery is indicated on the map, near the top and a bit to the left.

 

[acutename]

the time is so short that this killer is not torturing or assaulting so much as just killing ASAP. maybe some psych expert has some insight into that scenario.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m pretty sure no one on here wants to hear my thoughts on the times (with the exception of when DG arrives).

I’m interested! I’m not sure the 2:30 time of the video is a variable as the family mentioned it on Dr Phil and I can’t think of a good reason why they’d get it wrong. Sgt Carter was also present, along with the family. 2:30pm also appeared on the early billboards with the photo of the suspect.

But the 2:07 SC could certainly vary as I think the only source was the media who found it in somebody’s FB. LE, having Libby’s cellphone and access to cellphone data activity, obviously are aware of the correct time but I suppose as it’s not key to identifying the suspect, I don’t recall they ever really talked about it.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yes I do please.

Drop off around 1:35

Snapchat of AW taken between 1:45 and 2:07. You know I’m not sold on the 2:07 time due to the fact that the only source I’ve seen for that time is a FB post and media running with it. No LE verification that I can find so far. I wont clog up the thread with my explanation for this because it is long and technical.

Don’t know where the 2:30 time came into play other than it was posted on billboards shortly after the crime and mentioned on Dr. Phil (I didn’t see this episode, but people on WS said it was stated), however, it is not anymore. I wonder if it has been determined that the time is not accurate.

3:11 DG calls and it’s not answered

3:14 DG calls and it’s not answered

That’s all I’ve got really.

 

[FleurQualia]

I think he knew RL was gone and that the property at the end of the bridge was empty and he had an alibi sorted in some way (left his phone at home?). He then acted officious and got them away from the bridge via a ruse or by force or both. Moo

Refresh my memory - they were actually found ON the private property, correct?

I wonder if BG knew it was, or just happened to take them there because of proximity?

 

[MistyWaters]

Drop off around 1:35

Snapchat of AW taken between 1:45 and 2:07. You know I’m not sold on the 2:07 time due to the fact that the only source I’ve seen for that time is a FB post and media running with it. No LE verification that I can find so far. I wont clog up the thread with my explanation for this because it is long and technical.

Don’t know where the 2:30 time came into play other than it was posted on billboards shortly after the crime and mentioned on Dr. Phil (I didn’t see this episode, but people on WS said it was stated), however, it is not anymore. I wonder if it has been determined that the time is not accurate.

3:11 DG calls and it’s not answered

3:14 DG calls and it’s not answered

That’s all I’ve got really.

Oddly IndyChannel is going with the SC photo at about 2:15pm.

“Libby posted a photo of Abby walking across the railroad tracks on the bridge on Snapchat around 2:15 p.m. That haunting image was the last known photo of either girl alive and is the only clue we have about when exactly things might have taken a turn.”
One Year Later: Why the Delphi case isn't cold

Just guessing, if the SC time of 2:07pm is not correct I think it was closer to when Libby recorded the video of the suspect. Otherwise if neither of the girls left the bridge for the next 23 minutes, I don’t know but standing on the old bridge sure doesn’t seem to me like an ideal location for idle chit chat.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I’m interested! I’m not sure the 2:30 time of the video is a variable as the family mentioned it on Dr Phil and I can’t think of a good reason why they’d get it wrong. Sgt Carter was also present, along with the family. 2:30pm also appeared on the early billboards with the photo of the suspect.

But the 2:07 SC could certainly vary as I think the only source was the media who found it in somebody’s FB. LE, having Libby’s cellphone and access to cellphone data activity, obviously are aware of the correct time but I suppose as it’s not key to identifying the suspect, I don’t recall they ever really talked about it.

You replied before I could post my reply!

The 2:30 time puzzles me. I want to see when the Dr Phil show was taped and compare it to when the 2:30 time was removed from the billboards. It’s possible that LE thought the video was recorded at that time and they’ve since determined that it was incorrect. LE may have applied the same logic GH did in his videos using the 2:07 time. LG may have recorded the video with SC. You don’t have to post everything you record. You can just save it to SC memories. This is something I’m still thinking about. Will post when I come up with an answer I’m comfortable with. I feel like my technical SC answers are boring.

I’d really like to know how they recorded the video/audio and the version of iPhone she had (a 6?). I’d also like to know if LG had her SC set to public.

 

[MistyWaters]

You replied before I could post my reply!

The 2:30 time puzzles me. I want to see when the Dr Phil show was taped and compare it to when the 2:30 time was removed from the billboards. It’s possible that LE thought the video was recorded at that time and they’ve since determined that it was incorrect. LE may have applied the same logic GH did in his videos using the 2:07 time. LG may have recorded the video with SC. You don’t have to post everything you record. You can just save it to SC memories. This is something I’m still thinking about. Will post when I come up with an answer I’m comfortable with. I feel like my technical SC answers are boring.

I’d really like to know how they recorded the video/audio and the version of iPhone she had (a 6?). I’d also like to know if LG had her SC set to public.

The Dr Phil show was aired Dec/17 and was not taped long in advance iirc because somewhere the media reported the families heading out for the taping.

Apr/17 it was announced it was the Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce that obtained the photo/video and audio from Libby’s cellphone. I’d presume they, rather than LE, have the means to also determine exact timing of all the cellphone activity as part of that work but I don’t know for sure.

The clip begins @ 1:35

 

[HockeyMom330]

the time is so short that this killer is not torturing or assaulting so much as just killing ASAP. maybe some psych expert has some insight into that scenario.

The following excerpt is taken from a Psychology Today article:

The victims of a thrill killer are generally strangers, although the killer may stalk them for a period of time before the attack in order to fuel the excitement of the hunt. As explained by Peter Vronsky in his book Serial Killers: The Method and Madness of Monsters, thrill killers derive intense satisfaction from the process of murder—that is, the acts leading up to it—rather than the killing itself. They come to crave the euphoric adrenaline rush provided by stalking and capturing their victims. The primary motive of thrill killers is to induce pain or terror in their victims prior to killing them which provides intense stimulation and excitement (2). Stalking and hunting their prey becomes an addiction for them much like a narcotic drug.

Normally, the attack of a thrill killer is swift and there is generally no sexual aspect to the murder. Once the victim is dead, a thrill killer typically loses interest in him/her almost immediately. Therefore, postmortem mutilation or necrophilia is rarely engaged in by this type of serial killer.

Perhaps BG is this type of killer?

 

[BradB]

I believe so hockeymom. I believe it didnt matter who he came across that day. They would have been murdered.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Where can I see a YouTube video that shows the path the girls would have been ordered down? I'd like to see a walk beginning at "down the hill" and ending where the bodies were found. I know there's one out there but too many to wade through and I know a few of you probably have one bookmarked. Thanks.