Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[MistyWaters]

Kelsi German states that in the Infamous Indy podcast. It’s a great podcast and well worth the listen.

The Delphi Murders
Mixes — Infamous Indy

This is a very descriptive podcast, I agree it’s well worth listening to.

At about 19:00 KG says during the search somebody yelled out about finding a shoe. She was asked to identify the colour so you’re exactly right about that. This puts the shoe debate to rest

 

[rosesfromangels]

We’ve been talking a lot about the psychological profile of this killer. I just finished watching interviews of killers describing their crimes in graphic detail.

It’s very very difficult to listen to, and extremely disturbing. However, one thing jumps out. Every killer describes horrific scenes as calmly as if they were talking about washing their car. It’s very striking.

We are looking for that guy devoid of emotion. You know, that guy.

Amateur speculation and opinion only

 

[Blueberry2720]

We’ve been talking a lot about the psychological profile of this killer. I just finished watching interviews of killers describing their crimes in graphic detail.

It’s very very difficult to listen to, and extremely disturbing. However, one thing jumps out. Every killer describes horrific scenes as calmly as if they were talking about washing their car. It’s very striking.

We are looking for that guy devoid of emotion. You know, that guy.

Amateur speculation and opinion only

Reminds me of the YT video of Dennis Rader's full confession in court. He is asked about each murder he committed and he just goes through the "steps" of each one as though he was telling you how he prepared a recipe, e.g. Well, first I peeled the potatoes, and then I filled a pot with water . . . completely devoid of emotion as you say. Very creepy.

 

[Boxer]

And actually a really interesting question, IMO. I don't know anything about law, though.

So let's say they could take a dead suspect's DNA for positive ID purposes only, but can't add to CODIS. Are there other means to look at past crimes in relation to him, for example, if a family member is willing to submit DNA?

Was't he under arrest but resisting?
If he was then DNA seems legally obtainable with no further issue.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This likely means they were, in fact, on RL's property, too, correct? If the creek access that is now not labeled as his, was at the time.

An overnight search effort eventually led crews to their bodies on a piece of Ronald Logan's property, less than a mile from the place where the girls were dropped off.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention

 

[JudgeJudi]

BP only agreed they could go if they arranged a lift back because she told Libby she was busy and couldn't pick them up. Libby said my Dad will pick me up and BP said in the interview she knew he would and explained DG was on an errand for her so she left it up to Libby to arrange the pick up, which Libby did when she was in the car at the trail head. I think this is all in the one interview - probably the Grey Hughes one, perhaps someone else remembers it exactly, but that was how we got more exact times.

From my transcription of Gray Hughes' interview with Becky Patty:

Part 1 Excerpt

Monday morning
They slept in ‘cause they were up late. When they got up it was, I don’t know, maybe 10:00 or so and Derrick made them pancakes. They had pancakes, and of course Libby always wants to be on the go and she was wanting to do something but Kelsi had to work that day.
...

So they came out and were doing some filing – they were out with the file cabinets, filing and stuff – and Kelsi came out – see, I don’t know the exact time of that, you know, why would we have paid attention to that – but she came out – it was probably close to 1:00 and said, “Hey, I work at 4:00. I’m going to go to a friend’s house for a little bit and then, then I’m going on to work. Well, as soon as Libby heard that, Libby jumped up and said, “Hey, will you take us to the bridge?” and Kelsi said, “I don’t care”. And she looked at me and said, “Grandma, can I go?” and I said, “Well, you’ve got to have a ride home ‘cause I’m working and I can’t stop to pick you up, you know, until quitting time and I’m not – I just don’t have the time to do it”. So she said, “Well, I’ll just call my Dad”. Well, I assumed that she called her Dad. I didn’t specifically say, “Libby, did you call your Dad?” I assumed it was done.
...

I assumed that everything was okay when she came and said, “Hey, we’re leaving”. She called her Dad on the way but it’s because she knew that he would never tell her “No”. He ne…, Derrick never told her “No” for anything, not that she ever asked for anything unrealistic but if she asked him to do something, he just, he did it. It’s just that – and if he would have said, “No”, I guess she would have come back home – Kelsi would have just brought her home – but there was no reason for him not to. He was taking these pictures, about 3 miles out of his way to swing by and pick her up. So it wasn’t big deal for him to swing by and pick her up. And they did. That’s when they left.

Part 2 excerpt
So they left here right around – give or take a couple of minutes – they left here right around 1:30. What I do know is Kelsi had said that she was talking on the phone to her boyfriend when she dropped them off, and I looked at phone records and it shows that she called or the call came in from her boyfriend at 1:38. So she was talking to her boyfriend at 1:38 when she dropped them off. That’s when the phone call started. So I don’t know how long she talked to him and I don’t know how many minutes it was to get there, but she dropped them off and she watched them. She said she watched them until they got to the, into the trailhead and then she pulled on out and went on to her friend’s house.

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

Part 2 appears on the same page

 

[tresir2012]

From my transcription of Gray Hughes' interview with Becky Patty:

Part 1 Excerpt

Monday morning
They slept in ‘cause they were up late. When they got up it was, I don’t know, maybe 10:00 or so and Derrick made them pancakes. They had pancakes, and of course Libby always wants to be on the go and she was wanting to do something but Kelsi had to work that day.
...

So they came out and were doing some filing – they were out with the file cabinets, filing and stuff – and Kelsi came out – see, I don’t know the exact time of that, you know, why would we have paid attention to that – but she came out – it was probably close to 1:00 and said, “Hey, I work at 4:00. I’m going to go to a friend’s house for a little bit and then, then I’m going on to work. Well, as soon as Libby heard that, Libby jumped up and said, “Hey, will you take us to the bridge?” and Kelsi said, “I don’t care”. And she looked at me and said, “Grandma, can I go?” and I said, “Well, you’ve got to have a ride home ‘cause I’m working and I can’t stop to pick you up, you know, until quitting time and I’m not – I just don’t have the time to do it”. So she said, “Well, I’ll just call my Dad”. Well, I assumed that she called her Dad. I didn’t specifically say, “Libby, did you call your Dad?” I assumed it was done.
...

I assumed that everything was okay when she came and said, “Hey, we’re leaving”. She called her Dad on the way but it’s because she knew that he would never tell her “No”. He ne…, Derrick never told her “No” for anything, not that she ever asked for anything unrealistic but if she asked him to do something, he just, he did it. It’s just that – and if he would have said, “No”, I guess she would have come back home – Kelsi would have just brought her home – but there was no reason for him not to. He was taking these pictures, about 3 miles out of his way to swing by and pick her up. So it wasn’t big deal for him to swing by and pick her up. And they did. That’s when they left.

Part 2 excerpt
So they left here right around – give or take a couple of minutes – they left here right around 1:30. What I do know is Kelsi had said that she was talking on the phone to her boyfriend when she dropped them off, and I looked at phone records and it shows that she called or the call came in from her boyfriend at 1:38. So she was talking to her boyfriend at 1:38 when she dropped them off. That’s when the phone call started. So I don’t know how long she talked to him and I don’t know how many minutes it was to get there, but she dropped them off and she watched them. She said she watched them until they got to the, into the trailhead and then she pulled on out and went on to her friend’s house.

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

Part 2 appears on the same page

Thanks JJ.

 

[rosesfromangels]

As you may know from my previous posts, I'm a bit obsessed with the use of the word "guys". "Guys, down the hill". We've had debates back and forth about how frequently people use the term "guys" to speak to people; regardless of gender or level of familiarity. I still think it's noteworthy.

That aside, I want to amplify the use of the word "guy" supposedly caught on audio in reference to one of the girls referencing BG following them. (I can not find a direct source to verify the girls captured on audio saying "creepy guy"). Anyone know if this is verifiable?

Now *if* it is, and *if* the girls used the term "creepy GUY" to describe BG lurking around them, it does suggest a younger male. "Guy" is a younger male, taking the age of the girls in to context. If he were over 30-ish, given the girls age, I think they would have said "creepy MAN", or "creepy OLD MAN".

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

I need the help of the locals on this speculation.
Which local schools (high, Jr. College, or Universities), use this Monon Bridge/Park area as a learning tool? Meaning they take field trips there to study the ecosystem of the park, etc?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[JudgeJudi]

Has anyone ever figured out where BG is exactly on the bridge in Libby's video?

Gray Hughes’ friend, Julie Melvin, made this video for him. For those who don’t want to watch it in its entirety, I have it start at the relevant portion showing BG’s location when Libby filmed him. It’s only 1:30 long. I’ve added some of his comments and a few of mine before you start watching it.

His theory is that BG saw the girls on the trail and followed them at a distance. By so doing, he was able to ensure that nobody had preceded the girls on the trail and he was also able to look back and see if anyone was behind him. When he saw them walking on the bridge, he waited until they were about half way across before he started hustling towards them. GH had some friends who were able to cross the bridge in 4-5 minutes, but obviously the girls weren’t in a hurry and were taking pictures so it would have taken them longer.

He shows the exact location where each of the photos and video were taken using vines on the railroad ties, trees and other distinguishing features. Distances are also given. He then lines up the video with Libby’s photo of the bridge (7:35). It’s interesting to note that distances look much greater in the photos compared to the video which is due to Libby’s phone having a wider angle lens. The second photo she took is the one of Abby wearing the red top and jacket posted on SC at 2:07, and he shows the exact railroad tie that her right foot is on (8:43).

Libby was off the end of the bridge when she filmed him. That was the only place where she could have captured the angle that you see in her video. GH points out a white “nodule” which can be seen near BG’s right foot. BG is 60’ before the end of the bridge. LE released one image that shows a tiny piece of Abby’s clothing, and this was subsequently cropped when they released the 3 frames of BG walking. BG was starting to catch up. At 15:00 GH points out the white “nodule” as Libby filmed him at the angle that correlates with the video.

The video continues down the hill and on to the crime scene where the crime scene tape is visible.

I’m a huge admirer of GH’s work and his incredible attention to detail.

 

[JudgeJudi]

That aside, I want to amplify the use of the word "guy" supposedly caught on audio in reference to one of the girls referencing BG following them. (I can not find a direct source to verify the girls captured on audio saying "creepy guy"). Anyone know if this is verifiable?

Now *if* it is, and *if* the girls used the term "creepy GUY" to describe BG lurking around them, it does suggest a younger male. "Guy" is a younger male, taking the age of the girls in to context. If he were over 30-ish, given the girls age, I think they would have said "creepy MAN", or "creepy OLD MAN".

Grey Hughes the word "creepy" in one of his live streams but IIRC he wasn't quoting one of the girls.

 

[TL4S]

Gray Hughes’ friend, Julie Melvin, made this video for him. For those who don’t want to watch it in its entirety, I have it start at the relevant portion showing BG’s location when Libby filmed him. It’s only 1:30 long. I’ve added some of his comments and a few of mine before you start watching it.

His theory is that BG saw the girls on the trail and followed them at a distance. By so doing, he was able to ensure that nobody had preceded the girls on the trail and he was also able to look back and see if anyone was behind him. When he saw them walking on the bridge, he waited until they were about half way across before he started hustling towards them. GH had some friends who were able to cross the bridge in 4-5 minutes, but obviously the girls weren’t in a hurry and were taking pictures so it would have taken them longer.

He shows the exact location where each of the photos and video were taken using vines on the railroad ties, trees and other distinguishing features. Distances are also given. He then lines up the video with Libby’s photo of the bridge (7:35). It’s interesting to note that distances look much greater in the photos compared to the video which is due to Libby’s phone having a wider angle lens. The second photo she took is the one of Abby wearing the red top and jacket posted on SC at 2:07, and he shows the exact railroad tie that her right foot is on (8:43).

Libby was off the end of the bridge when she filmed him. That was the only place where she could have captured the angle that you see in her video. GH points out a white “nodule” which can be seen near BG’s right foot. BG is 60’ before the end of the bridge. LE released one image that shows a tiny piece of Abby’s clothing, and this was subsequently cropped when they released the 3 frames of BG walking. BG was starting to catch up. At 15:00 GH points out the white “nodule” as Libby filmed him at the angle that correlates with the video.

The video continues down the hill and on to the crime scene where the crime scene tape is visible.

I’m a huge admirer of GH’s work and his incredible attention to detail.

Thank you for this. It helps so much!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Im confused about where Libby's father had arranged to pick them up. Was it on the side of the creek that they were found near the cemetery? Is part of the trail on that side of the bridge too.

Libby's father, Derrick, had arranged to pick them up at the drop-off point which is on the opposite side to the cemetery. Their bodies were found on the cemetery side.

 

[MistyWaters]

Libby's father, Derrick, had arranged to pick them up at the drop-off point which is on the opposite side to the cemetery. Their bodies were found on the cemetery side.

High Bridge access changes, parking will no longer be allowed off of 300 North

By the article mentioning M’s private property and the same sign appearing in GH’s videos indicating the drop off and pick up location, it appears this now-closed trail access wasn’t through the cemetery.

Anybody feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but also by watching GH’s videos the same access appears to have been directly to the left of the Mary Gerard Nature Reserve. A trail from that point formed a “T”, adjoining the main trail to the bridge, identified by the very faint visible path through the trees on this google map.

 

[JudgeJudi]

So sorry- can someone direct me to the transcript of LE saying the girls definitely crossed the creek? (The video posted a couple pages back is not syncing up for me.).

I checked for a while in the media thread but my tired brain has given up after searching multiple pages. TIA.

Lead Detective Sgt. Holeman said at 10:50

“Obviously they had to go through some pretty steep terrain and wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it’s – and then to cross the creek. The creek – I mean obviously it’s February – it’s probably not the warmest – it was a warm day that day, but still, the water temperature was probably cooler than the air temperature”.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[zoricaj1]

Iirc, in the 2018 crimecon chat, Sgt Riley says he and LE believe some of the early sketches or witness descriptions included ones describing Himself and MP amongst others!

link??

 

[zoricaj1]

This is the first I've heard of this. This witness went public with what she saw?

how do you know???

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

link??

<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="The Delphi Murders: The Families Speak from Red Seat on Vimeo" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


ETA ....Was Holeman not Riley.

 

[Boxer]

how do you know???

MOO this is rumor, original post about this has been deleted due to TOS.

 

[sunshineray]

how do you know???

I don't know, I was asking the poster who said it the same as you just asked me.