Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[Spy Versus Spy]

Totally agree. A couple of days ago you mentioned the "elephants" in the room, an expression I too once used here. I'd like to add there are numerous monkeys doing a dance around those elephants and the fact that we cannot discuss those "FACTS" leaves us rehashing points that will lead us no closer to the truth of why these murders happened. I have no doubt LE are aware of all of this pertinent info, but perhaps they don't know exactly who did it or are unable to make a case against anyone with the evidence they have. We here are figuratively handcuffed which prevents us from discussing pertinent, factual info and they are handcuffed due to possible lack of evidence and/or cooperation by those who know what happened. Many refer to FB as the "Snake Pit" and I agree, but I'm beginning to see Delphi as the "Circus".

SusiQ!
Are you high on Metaphorphetamine?

 

[susiQ]

SusiQ!
Are you high on Metaphorphetamine?

Why yes, now that you bring it up Certainly a better "fix" than the stuff the rest of them are high on

 

[tresir2012]

"Probably not a madman in the classical sense"
I have used a quote from BNA's post upthread.
I am posting quite a disturbing article about the murders of the Platte County sisters, because I am seriously wondering if something like this has happened here.

It's the only explanation for this murder IMO.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/crime/article24733156.html

 

[JnRyan]

On the age, when I look at the video I can see a possibility this guy is in the 30 to mid 40's range. But the image is very poor when magnified in that manner. When I look at the sketch it appears this guy could be as young as 16 or 17. The problem with that young a person is that they would likely be someone who should be in school. If the nearby high schools were out that day as well, then of course he would be out of school but residing very close to the trail. I would imagine someone that young would not as likely be from as far away as 150-200 miles. (Some school systems might still have vocational education programs where students can leave school early for jobs in the workplace. Such a student could have been off that day and those students are more likely to own or have easy access to a vehicle. I don't know what IN has in the way of such programs, but we had such a program in my high school.) Otherwise this could be someone as young as 18 going by the sketch.

LE doesn't seem to state an age as young as I'm stating, preferring to state that he could look young for his age. It makes me wonder how they come up with that scenario. I don't see it being the video or the still images from it. I believe LE finds it in the best interest to provide the best image possible and those images are the result of their best efforts to enhance the image - i.e., they are not holding back with the images. And yet looking at those images I don't see how LE can come up with an age other than ruling out a 12-13 year old or 70+ year old man. I wonder if the age range is based on an FBI or other such criminal profile as well as witness accounts.

 

[JnRyan]

On another point. The DNA. 1st Sgt Holeman seemed to allude to the possibility that they have DNA, but may not have identified the killer's DNA. If that is true and if they can narrow down the DNA profiles they have a half dozen or less, can they use a company such as Parabon Labs to 'back into the killer's DNA'? IOW, send the DNA profiles to Parabon and determine which projected images are the closest to the sketch. Of course, this assumes the DNA profiles they have are complete enough for Parabon to do this. This also assumes the 2nd sketch we have is the killer. It doesn't appear we got it right the first time, why is this 2nd sketch any better?

 

[Jamie737]

If someone were murdered and dumped in my backyard by you, but you were a part time gardener here with full run of the place, I think your DNA might be here there and everywhere.

I would need something else to connect you to that someone. Perhaps someone else saw you here that day when the murder took place and you didn’t have an alibi to confirm you were somewhere else.

Or a ping off your cellphone - but hard to use if there are only two towers around here,

Or a motive. A believable one.

That’s why, I think, a tip can start the snowball, but it needs momentum to roll forward.

 

[TL4S]

Those few seconds we have of video and audio aren't enough to formulate an opinion, but my first impression of BG is not one of a tweaker. The multiple clothing layers, the hands in the pockets, the walking over a high bridge, the relatively calm manner of speaking... JMO. Like I said though, I would never swear by what I can see or hear in the tidbit we have. It's not enough to tell.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It doesn't appear we got it right the first time, why is this 2nd sketch any better?

That is the $ 225.000 question, I think.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Those few seconds we have of video and audio aren't enough to formulate an opinion, but my first impression of BG is not one of a tweaker.

bbm

Nevertheless he could have been in the area to buy something "for a friend". IMO, perhaps.

 

[susiQ]

"Probably not a madman in the classical sense"
I have used a quote from BNA's post upthread.
I am posting quite a disturbing article about the murders of the Platte County sisters, because I am seriously wondering if something like this has happened here.

It's the only explanation for this murder IMO.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/crime/article24733156.html

@tresir2012 You nailed it with this article! The only question that remains is WHICH addict/dealer/maker was there that day, whether they "imagined" something that "set them off" or did they see the opportunity to take revenge on "someone" that put them in prison by murdering these two innocents.

Someone can say a person is so kind and sweet and wouldn't hurt a spider, but the truth is found deeper in the darkness of a world they may know little of. Those who produce/deal Meth are murderers too but just aren't publicly perceived that way and unfortunately, Delphi has it's fair share. Revenge is a powerful motive. Informants regrettably experience "blowback". IMHO.
ed:sp

 

[TL4S]

bbm

Nevertheless he could have been in the area to buy something "for a friend". IMO, perhaps.

That's true, he could have been there to buy/sell/use. I guess my main thought is that I don't think he was on anything at the time of the crimes. I could be totally off track, but because he crossed the high bridge, and then controlled the two girls through the woods (maybe the creek), I don't see him being too messed up. Although I wish he had been that day - probably would have fallen off the bridge before he got them.

 

[susiQ]

If someone were murdered and dumped in my backyard by you, but you were a part time gardener here with full run of the place, I think your DNA might be here there and everywhere.

I would need something else to connect you to that someone. Perhaps someone else saw you here that day when the murder took place and you didn’t have an alibi to confirm you were somewhere else.

Or a ping off your cellphone - but hard to use if there are only two towers around here,

Or a motive. A believable one.

That’s why, I think, a tip can start the snowball, but it needs momentum to roll forward.

So, let's look at RL's property. He himself in an MSM interview tells us how his kids used to play down there when they were young. Who else was playing down there in 2016/17? I'm convinced they have DNA, maybe loads of DNA but not necessarily that of the killer. BG was by all accounts dressed from top to bottom, and if the murder was not SA motivated, but revenge or a psychotic break due to meth abuse, there may be very little BG DNA to be had that cannot easily be ruled out for other reasons. Even cell tower data. What if BG had a girlfriend or family that lived very close by? Plausible deniability. RL is a friend of the family and my gf lives but a mile away. JMHO

 

[BNA]

That's true, he could have been there to buy/sell/use. I guess my main thought is that I don't think he was on anything at the time of the crimes. I could be totally off track, but because he crossed the high bridge, and then controlled the two girls through the woods (maybe the creek), I don't see him being too messed up. Although I wish he had been that day - probably would have fallen off the bridge before he got them.

I am thinking he is along the lines of a functional alcoholic.

 

[TL4S]

I am thinking he is along the lines of a functional alcoholic.

That's also possible. My thought, though, is that it's impossible to tell from the audio/video. And probably we all see something different, just like we do the sketch.

 

[Jamie737]

So, let's look at RL's property. He himself in an MSM interview tells us how his kids used to play down there when they were young. Who else was playing down there in 2016/17? I'm convinced they have DNA, maybe loads of DNA but not necessarily that of the killer. BG was by all accounts dressed from top to bottom, and if the murder was not SA motivated, but revenge or a psychotic break due to meth abuse, there may be very little BG DNA to be had that cannot easily be ruled out for other reasons. Even cell tower data. What if BG had a girlfriend or family that lived very close by? Plausible deniability. RL is a friend of the family and my gf lives but a mile away. JMHO

Exactly. The coincidence is simply out of the world. Circumstantial is one thing, conviction another

 

[TL4S]

Delphi murders: Abby & Libby’s families brace for 2nd anniversary, pray 'today is the day'

This is an article from February but it had some info that I had not heard before.

On Saturday, two mystery camera memory cards marked with Libby’s name fell out of a photo album. Becky Patty said she has thousands, probably tens of thousands, of photos of her granddaughter – “Libby and Kelsi were so into photography and just doing these photo shoots everywhere,” she said – but she was still anxious to see what was hidden on cards that date themselves by their 1GB capacity, relatively tiny by standards of 2017, the last time Libby would have used them.

“You’d have thought that we would have found everything by now, after she’s been gone,” Becky Patty said. “Things like that just pop up. … She’s still here.”

Williams said she’s had to get better at tuning out some of the true-crime online discussions dedicated to the Delphi murders that hash and re-hash theories and then try to draw her in. Over the weekend, one rumor getting replayed had her particularly frustrated – that Abby had been alive when the girls were found.

“They run out of things to talk about, so they run through the whole list of rumors,” Williams said. “You have to realize most of them mean well. Others of them, I just don’t know what to say.”

Thanks for this article. I hadn't seen it, either. Here's the line that struck me:

"“I say, ‘Morning,’” Mike Patty said. “Then I spend time thinking for a while about the last 30 minutes of her life. Of Abby’s life, too. Of those girls’ lives. Every morning, that’s what I think about. …"

I wonder if that's how long it lasted, from BG approaching them, to the end. 30 minutes?

 

[Dayday7]

Yeah, I remember seeing it months ago and staring at the time and date because I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And if I am reading it right. And then felt very confused for hours, like I just fell through a wormhole or something and landed in an alternate universe. So I am not surprised that this led to rumors or to people being just as confused as I was. Or still am. But if we saw it, then LE saw it too. But like I said before, it must be one of the weirdest coincidences ever.

how do i find the "song lyrics" that keep getting brought up? I am just so curious but must suck at google because I can't find anything. Is it againd the rules to post it so I can see?

 

[Cutiekitty]

If someone were murdered and dumped in my backyard by you, but you were a part time gardener here with full run of the place, I think your DNA might be here there and everywhere.

I would need something else to connect you to that someone. Perhaps someone else saw you here that day when the murder took place and you didn’t have an alibi to confirm you were somewhere else.

Or a ping off your cellphone - but hard to use if there are only two towers around here,

Or a motive. A believable one.

That’s why, I think, a tip can start the snowball, but it needs momentum to roll forward.

This is a good. Pretty much what I’ve been thinking is going on.

 

[IQuestion]

Okay, tried the multi-quote thing... but probably still haven't gotten it. (Pleeez don't give up on me it took 3 years to learn how to copy and paste!) @BNA had me in a quandary with reference to PEDS, (little socks, pediatric medicine, or another Social Media trap designed to "pass classroom notes" without parents or teachers being aware?) Performance Enhancing Drugs...I got it!! And yes I agree, anabolic steroids abuse among young men... we call it "ROID RAGE" here. I have seen contrite, fun and normal size young men turn into "short-fused, confrontational, angry, muscle bound galoots." I am aware it has great uses in medicine when administered by a doctor for a specific problem. But unregulated....it can turn abusers into monsters.
"Aggression is the No. 1 reported symptom among anabolic steroid users. In animal studies, anabolic steroids dramatically increase aggression in doses and combinations that mimic street use."
So, if perp is a "user" of PEDs....then yeppers, he is on the younger side of 35. Hmmm wonder if the DNA /blood samples also tested positive for steroids?? IE....could look younger?

***Dang, it didn't work...ugh I can't do it!...I give up and no more tutorials, it is hopeless.

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks for this article. I hadn't seen it, either. Here's the line that struck me:

"“I say, ‘Morning,’” Mike Patty said. “Then I spend time thinking for a while about the last 30 minutes of her life. Of Abby’s life, too. Of those girls’ lives. Every morning, that’s what I think about. …"

I wonder if that's how long it lasted, from BG approaching them, to the end. 30 minutes?

Good spot there. That would mean it was over by 3pm and would explain DG not getting an answer when he called just after 3. We often theorized but that does now seem to confirm it doesn't it? Hope LE are closing in so the families can grieve properly.