Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[EarthtoMel]

This whole thing is confusing to me. Maybe I am slow today, but how is it no one heard any of this? The leaves weren't on the trees...sound must have traveled further. Just walking on the dead leaves would have made a lot of noise. I know when I am walking through the woods in winter, I hear all kinds of animals, etc.
Even if he had told them to be quiet or else, they would have made some kind of noises....I can't understand how he flew under the radar like this.

 

[mtnlites]

But was the find site the site of the murders? Or were they taken there, perhaps by ATV or even on horseback?

I still don’t see how and why he would cross the creek to kill there.

I really don't think so. LE has stated that the whole crime went down quickly. Horses and ATVs leave trails that can be followed and both would stand out in that park because they're very uncommon there. LE has asked the public about a vehicle parked at the old family services' building and, earlier in the case, about hitchhikers. This leaves me to believe that he was not on a horse or ATV. Also, people were out searching the park all night long. Returning their bodies would be very risky. Why would he take them someplace else, kill them, and then chance being caught as he brought them back? Why not take their bodies to someplace that was easier to access, less likely to be noticed, and further away?

 

[tresir2012]

MOO Where he came from and how he left:

Theae are the only times I think are established in public media, scattered.

2:07 Girls on bridge
2:30 ?? LG video of BG
2:42-2:44+- CE arrives at MHB starts to walk across, hears and sees nothing.
2:47 FSG sees BG ?
2:49 CE on south side of MHB takes photo of bridge.
2:55/3:00+- FSG arrives at north end of MHB. Hears couple arguing?
3:11 DG call to LG rings but is not answered.

Where did the times 2:42 to 2:55 come from ?

 

[Boxer]

Where did the times 2:42 to 2:55 come from ?

CE was taking a picture at the south end of the MHB at 2:49. she would need 5-10 to cross.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Why would he take them someplace else, kill them, and then chance being caught as he brought them back? Why not take their bodies to someplace that was easier to access, less likely to be noticed, and further away?

Respectfully snipped for focus, and BBM.
Because he wanted to display their bodies in a horrific manner, to be found as they were.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[ab01]

I really don't think so. LE has stated that the whole crime went down quickly. Horses and ATVs leave trails that can be followed and both would stand out in that park because they're very uncommon there. LE has asked the public about a vehicle parked at the old family services' building and, earlier in the case, about hitchhikers. This leaves me to believe that he was not on a horse or ATV. Also, people were out searching the park all night long. Returning their bodies would be very risky. Why would he take them someplace else, kill them, and then chance being caught as he brought them back? Why not take their bodies to someplace that was easier to access, less likely to be noticed, and further away?

Agreed bringing them back to an area that was an active search scene would have been the complete opposite of BG's main objective of not getting caught IMO

Theres just no way that happened, As if it did this case would have been solved very quickly IMO

ETA

Additionally the fact that this crime has gone so long without being solved leaves me to believe strongly in a few almost certain things

1 BG likely had no meaningful connection to the victims, likely a complete stranger

2 BG likely committed the crimes within a very short time frame, He was likely long gone before anybody even knew the girls were missing

 

[MsBetsy]

I would be surprised if the person who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German was someone they knew. The killer in this case appears to be a stranger.

In the December 2017 Dr. Phil interview, Abby's mother said that Abby's hair was messed up while put in a bun, wearing blue jeans, her mother's old shirt, and Abby had Libby's sweatshirt on.

I think there is a tendency to overanalyze a case when the killer appears to be a stranger, because that means the killer could be anyone. Until there is some new information or police finally get that "right" tip that leads them to a name, I think this case is not going to get any closer to being solved than it was 2 years ago. I think this case will get solved eventually but eventually could be tomorrow or 20 years from now.

It must be so disappointing to the family that it has not been solved yet. I really thought after the last PC that it would not be much longer.

Since this is all about control, I would think the killer is very satisfied with himself right now. Even with the new information LE does not seem to be closer to an arrest. If he was nervous after the release of the new sketch, I would think he is gaining back his confidence right now. He may even have the urge to kill again.

I hope it does not take another brutal murder before this case is finally solved. Imo

 

[BNA]

They needed some excuse for the press conference. I’ve always thought it was a play on the conscience of those that could provide actual information and no more.

It will be interesting to learn the real reason for the several days notice before that event.

 

[FinePrint]

IMO, the location they were found is the location they were killed.

And I also don't see why he would cross the creek to kill there, which is why I've taken so much thread space trying to figure out an alternate way to put them all in that location.

@TL4S I'm loving your different scenarios. Some I feel are really plausible. I think your frustrated because you think logically like a rational person.

BG is not “right” obviously. I think a lot of this was part of the thrill for him. I really believe it was a little cat and mouse game to him....moo

Sometimes things just don’t make sense to us normal minded people. A lot of crazies out there. I sure wouldn’t want to be in LEs shoes. So many creepy things they have to see! Things of nightmares!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

RIP 155etta's inbox

Sorry...I need to inject a LMAO.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Delete.
Quote messed up.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Yes that’s right, we have no idea why Libby began filming but there must’ve been a reason. When confronted with the unexpected it’s normal for our human minds to attempt to rationalize what we see. Fear is not always the initial reaction.

BBM
I totally agree with this statement.

 

[margarita25]

( :lurk: )

 

[tresir2012]

CE was taking a picture at the south end of the MHB at 2:49. she would need 5-10 to cross.

I thought she saw DG in his car when she arrived so it had to be after 3 p.m. IMO. Have you a link for the times?

 

[Boxer]

I really don't think so. LE has stated that the whole crime went down quickly. Horses and ATVs leave trails that can be followed and both would stand out in that park because they're very uncommon there. LE has asked the public about a vehicle parked at the old family services' building and, earlier in the case, about hitchhikers. This leaves me to believe that he was not on a horse or ATV. Also, people were out searching the park all night long. Returning their bodies would be very risky. Why would he take them someplace else, kill them, and then chance being caught as he brought them back? Why not take their bodies to someplace that was easier to access, less likely to be noticed, and further away?

MOO he knew of and really liked the flat place they were found.
Since I believe he is a local young man, I think he had a geeky epiphany at some point that the flat could not be seen from bridge, but he could see the bridge, like a hunting blind. Then he also noted prevailing afternoon winds come from the west, carrying sound away to the east. He is now not just hiding in plain sight, MOO he also murdered in plain sight.

MOO MOO Look for someone with a well to do background that offsets his social deficits. Too tightly wound, who has difficulty being natural, someone people are made uneasy by. Someone with off sense of humor, a startling or strange quickness in retorts or movements. Someone who never really connects, but really wants friends and approval. Someone who would kill over being passed over, rejected for a date or being excluded.

 

[MsBetsy]

It will be interesting to learn the real reason for the several days notice before that event.

Since LE believes he has told someone or someone close to him knows what he did, I've always thought they chose the holiday because so many families are together during that time.
The killer may have been acting nervous and anyone suspecting him would have their suspicions confirmed, or felt pressured to do the right thing. Imo

 

[Jabarn]

In my amateur opinion, too risky. She may say things that will serve the defense in the future. Communications to the public should be well orchestrated and approved by LE, not some well intended young woman’s live YouTube. Very bad idea.

Let’s hear from any criminal or defense attorneys please. Set me straight if I have this wrong.

Amateur opinion and speculation

In fairness not being a DA, that would assume she (KG) knows something or is in the acquaintence of someone who does. I don’t think that is the case here. She seems to be putting herself out there to find the killer. Even if it does turn out the crime is closer to home. IMO.

Agreed bringing them back to an area that was an active search scene would have been the complete opposite of BG's main objective of not getting caught IMO

Theres just no way that happened, As if it did this case would have been solved very quickly IMO

ETA

Additionally the fact that this crime has gone so long without being solved leaves me to believe strongly in a few almost certain things

1 BG likely had no meaningful connection to the victims, likely a complete stranger

2 BG likely committed the crimes within a very short time frame, He was likely long gone before anybody even knew the girls were missing

Yes, that is important. The crime did happen quickly, per media links earlier. So when you look at the distance from the drop off parking lot, there is a longish stretch of trail to get to the bridge itself, and as many have pointed out here, another trail perpendicular and possibly even a deer stand where the girls might have been watched the whole way. He had to have at least a hunch they were going to cross the bridge all the way to where it ends on the south end, where the crime tape was photographed. Not sure, but it makes some sense he was a stalker... IMO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Since LE believes he has told someone or someone close to him knows what he did, I've always thought they chose the holiday because so many families are together during that time.
The killer may have been acting nervous and anyone suspecting him would have their suspicions confirmed, or felt pressured to do the right thing. Imo

Yes, Valentines is very significant, IMO. Probably some hatred of woman tied to his mother.

Amateur speculation and opinion

 

[TL4S]

@TL4S I'm loving your different scenarios. Some I feel are really plausible. I think your frustrated because you think logically like a rational person.

BG is not “right” obviously. I think a lot of this was part of the thrill for him. I really believe it was a little cat and mouse game to him....moo

Sometimes things just don’t make sense to us normal minded people. A lot of crazies out there. I sure wouldn’t want to be in LEs shoes. So many creepy things they have to see! Things of nightmares!

Frustrated? Me? Never! (Please ignore the "WTF" in my later post)

 

[Boxer]

I thought she saw DG in his car when she arrived so it had to be after 3 p.m. IMO. Have you a link for the times?

Ok - I have to withdraw anything of CE as only the Heavy article seems findable now and that does not state times. I really thought I read in MSM that she took a picture at 2:49. Can't even find anything about seeing DG either.


2:07 Girls on bridge
2:30? LG video of BG on bridge
2:47 FSG sees BG on trail
2:55? FSG gets to MHB hears couple
3:15 DG and FSG talk at trail near parking