Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

[Boxer]

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[Boxer]

Charlot123

Such a good point about Libby's phone!


To me, with a younger suspect, everything points to something on line leading to these murders.
The girls may not have been meeting him- but he was after them.

 

[Charlot123]

Tobe Leazenby first used it in an interview with Michael Stroup, IIRC.

OK, that was March of 2017. At that time, there was a photo released and the word “guys”. Not sure about the first sketch.

Very important - at that time there was a possibility of two people being involved. DNAs were fast-tracked, so somewhere there is that DNA...

The twist could be about the full recording, where Libby documented that horrible story. Or that there might have been two people involved. Or maybe, that the girls were set up? Or that the reports of the witnesses were at such huge variance that they had two different sketches?

I think the latter, they had two portraits of one suspect from the get go.

Here is something about Carter’s phrase “how he has changed” from the last PC.

The FBI leaflet distributed at that time.

Information Sought in Investigation into Deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams — FBI

“On Monday, February 13, the individual or individuals responsible for these crimes may have been absent from work, missed or cancelled appointments or social engagements, or been unavailable or unresponsive during the afternoon period. They may have been a “no-show” or offered a plausible excuse for their absence or tardiness such as, illness, death in the family, car trouble, etc.

Since that time, the individual or individuals may have exhibited some of the following:

• A change in the daily routine(s), such as their sleep patterns or use of alcohol or drugs
• A change in their physical appearance (e.g., growth or removal of facial hair, change in length or color of hair
• Cleaned or disposed of clothing and/or shoes worn on Monday afternoon
• A change in normal routine which might include missing work or other engagements
• Anxiety, nervousness, or irritability
• Paid attention to the investigation, media coverage, or had discussions pertaining to the deaths

So what do you think the beloved ones of the BG have noticed as the change?

(My guess would be, he has not changed. He is so shallow... maybe he is nicer outwardly, but IRL, he has not changed his clothes, looks, nor is he more anxious. He denies own guilt. But maybe I am wrong.)

 

[margarita25]

Hair/beauty salons are another possibility. Many are closed on Mondays.

There is also the possibility that he worked these murders into his job schedule, say if he’s a truck driver, delivery driver or had a local job gig. Often this is the case, that they are in the area for work. So, if he was delivering something, hauling something, he could have squeezed this in as part of his trip.

 

[SilentRogue]

Oh @SilentRogue. Don't be a Negative Nancy Never is a very strong word. I agree 2 1/2 years later it doesn't look promising, but Carter said in April, they "are just NOW beginning." And THAT gives some hope that "what they were onto early on," may yet pan out. Keep the faith!

There's no faith to be kept. For whatever reason (skill or luck), this killer has clearly evaded arrest.

They've gone nowhere slowly.

 

[Charlot123]

Charlot123

Such a good point about Libby's phone!


To me, with a younger suspect, everything points to something on line leading to these murders.
The girls may not have been meeting him- but he was after them.

It might have been even a simpler situation. Abby did not have a cellphone; she was math-smart but could not be tech-savvy due to lack of experience. Easier to set up.

But Libby was tech-savvy plus went through criminology classes. She could have tracked the person, or maybe started tracing him. She probably did not know how he looked but she could be sleuthing him. She was guessing something.

This is exactly the situation when I could imagine the family member of the young adult participating in the crime, too. So there could be two people involved, not just the alibi case. Especially if they are related. Mental illness runs in families. To protect the younger adult’s life, career, image, future everything, a relative can partake...especially if the young adult is sobbing and scared. It was 2017, the year of “I am unafraid to say”, the beginning of anti-harassment movement.

 

[Charlot123]

There's no faith to be kept. For whatever reason (skill or luck), this killer has clearly evaded arrest.

They've gone nowhere slowly.

I wonder if he evaded arrest because someone really helped him, to kill, or to “clean up”. Not just lied for him.

 

[Boxer]

I wonder if he evaded arrest because someone really helped him, to kill, or to “clean up”. Not just lied for him.

MOO sadly nearly half of murders are never solved, these are just unsolved.
I don't think someone helped, but I do think someone crushed their suspicions, and the police distributing the wrong age and appearance of the suspect allowed them to do that. Now...they might need a push from a re-interview to talk.

 

[Charlot123]

MOO sadly nearly half of murders are never solved, these are just unsolved.
I don't think someone helped, but I do think
someone crushed their suspicions, and the police distributing the wrong age and appearance of the suspect allowed them to do that. Now...they might need a push from a re-interview to talk.

Do you remember one of the police officers saying, “We were onto something in the very beginning”.


Slain Indiana Teen Recorded Man Suspected of Killing Her, Friend on Hike; Police Release Audio Clip


Here is what they were posting in the beginning,

“They said it's possible the voice in the recording is that of the man in the photo. They also acknowledged that it's possible more than one person may be involved. The man in the photo is wearing blue jeans, a blue coat or jacket, and a hoodie.

"We are actively looking for this person. This person is our suspect," Slocum said.

Police said they are withholding some information in the case for investigative purposes.

Investigators believe the girls met the suspect in a chance encounter or the person knew they were going to be there. Liberty German's decision to make a recording provided police with their best information.
......
......

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter became emotional when he spoke during the news conference.
.....
.....

He and other investigators again appealed to the public to continue to send in tips. He believes someone knows the man in the photograph.

"Libby and Abby need you. Please don't rationalize tips away," he said.

So what happens, they suspected someone in the vicinity. Maybe even two people. And then the LE did exactly the same they implored witnesses to not do. They ...rationalized their correct suspicions away.

“ errare humanum est”

 

[Boxer]

Do you remember one of the police officers saying, “We were onto something in the very beginning”.


Slain Indiana Teen Recorded Man Suspected of Killing Her, Friend on Hike; Police Release Audio Clip

Yes. I thought Carter said it,
My recollection was they said they were "on to something early on"

 

[moonlessnight]

He also could have worked the murders into his job in that he had a role in searching, providing comfort to searchers, friends, family etc after the fact.

There is also the possibility that he worked these murders into his job schedule, say if he’s a truck driver, delivery driver or had a local job gig. Often this is the case, that they are in the area for work. So, if he was delivering something, hauling something, he could have squeezed this in as part of his trip.

 

[moonlessnight]

I thought they backed off thinking the killer knew they were going to be there. But maybe they think that again now.

Do you remember one of the police officers saying, “We were onto something in the very beginning”.


Slain Indiana Teen Recorded Man Suspected of Killing Her, Friend on Hike; Police Release Audio Clip


Here is what they were posting in the beginning,

“They said it's possible the voice in the recording is that of the man in the photo. They also acknowledged that it's possible more than one person may be involved. The man in the photo is wearing blue jeans, a blue coat or jacket, and a hoodie.

"We are actively looking for this person. This person is our suspect," Slocum said.

Police said they are withholding some information in the case for investigative purposes.

Investigators believe the girls met the suspect in a chance encounter or the person knew they were going to be there. Liberty German's decision to make a recording provided police with their best information.
......
......

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter became emotional when he spoke during the news conference.
.....
.....

He and other investigators again appealed to the public to continue to send in tips. He believes someone knows the man in the photograph.

"Libby and Abby need you. Please don't rationalize tips away," he said.

So what happens, they suspected someone in the vicinity. Maybe even two people. And then the LE did exactly the same they implored witnesses to not do. They ...rationalized their correct suspicions away.

“ errare humanum est”

 

[moonlessnight]

AS recognized the cross and confessed to his mom, knowing she would recognize it. He got her to arrange his surrender.

I just want to reiterate that in Jessica Ridgeway’s case, the perp left a cross with her body. The police released the image of the cross and it was recognized.

I just wonder if there’s something like that here going on. I would think, though, that if there was any item left behind which someone would recognize, LE would release the photo.

 

[Charlot123]

MOO sadly nearly half of murders are never solved, these are just unsolved.
I don't think someone helped, but I do think someone crushed their suspicions, and the police distributing the wrong age and appearance of the suspect allowed them to do that. Now...they might need a push from a re-interview to talk.

Remember how no one can understand how and why he needed the girls to cross the creek? How and why he crossed it? It can be easily explained if one person is the beater driving the girls as if during the hunt, and the other is waiting at the clearing.

The difference in the looks can be explained if there were two people, and different witnesses saw different ones. These strange things about the eyes, “definitely not blue” - does it mean that one witness described BG as having blue eyes, and the other one saw a different color, so when he/she was asked about blue eyes, said “definitely not blue”?

And now the police saying that “the real sketch is between the two”, does it mean that there were two people involved in the murders on the trail that day? And this huge age range, does it mean the LE is not sure who it was, or do they think that there were two similarly dressed people near the bridge on February 13th? And BG may have worn the mask, surely, but if he did not, both sketches are valid, they merely depict different people.

G.K. Chesterton or Agatha Christie would have said, yes, two people. I think, no matter if one covered for the other or was more actively involved, both are culpable.

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[moonlessnight]

thanks for posting that info from the book. It's like a play by play of the killer's family, IMO.

In regard to my post above about Abby and Libby being targeted...Please see the following. The following quote is from

bookrags.com/studyguide-the-shack-where-tragedy-confronts-eternity

"Mack had never had a close relationship with God. His alcoholic father was an elder in the church the family attended but it did not keep his father from beating his mother when he was drunk. It also did not keep Mack’s father from tying Mack to a tree and beating him off and on for two days after Mack told someone in the church about his father’s violent tendencies. Missy’s abduction and murder only caused more separation in the relationship between Mack and God."

I think when Doug Carter referenced this book/movie, he did it for a reason. I also wonder if this book was used in the school by teachers...or someone... for summer reading or for use during the school year to discuss/analyze and to review in let's say a language arts class, for example.

 

[moonlessnight]

I would agree that you don't kill 2 teens in public in daylight if you haven't done things quite like it in the past. You don't get away with it for 2.5 years without experience either.

You know last night I was talking about the celebration we are going to have when there’s an arrest...

I just remembered how I/we felt after the Watts case and when CW was sentenced...(“Now Bailiff, please take this man and escort him to the Department of Corrections for the rest of his life...(rewind)...”Now Bailiff, please take this man and escort him to the...”)—Of course we were all happy about this but ultimately it was all just SAD. The loss of those beautiful souls...All the lives affected...

I wonder again if he has a family of his own...wife, kids...

Or will he turn out to be one of these loner types like many of these mass shooters...

How has he gotten away with this... @MassGuy I really think he’s more than just lucky. He went in there, did his thing, came right back out and disappeared. Stealth...speed...man on a mission...
Came with a plan, found some victims..he knew there would be some...I think he’s done this before and I think he’ll do it again...in fact he probably already has...perhaps if we dig....the challenge is the crimes may not be that similar if he has different MOs or changed his approach...has he maybe gone (back) to targeting more “convenient” targets, say prostitutes...he may have chosen a new hunting ground in another state..near or far...he may want to avoid ISP...of course we know LE all over the country has eyes, and there’s the FBI but...

 

[moonlessnight]

that could be a motive for killing them on site and leaving them - he wants his MO to be known by LE. If he is showing off, he wants LE to know what happened to the girls.

I personally haven't ruled out Lizzy and Lyric's case as being related. One thing is different. In Abigail and Liberty he appears to have left the bodies where he killed them or at least close to the killing site. With Lizzy and Lyric, I believe their bodies were found a few miles from the apparent abduction site - he either killed them near where he met them and transported their bodies or he abducted them and killed them at the remote spot where they were found. Also, with Lizzy and Lyric there is the problem with the cause of death as I believe the bodies were too badly decomposed for LE to determine how they were killed. That cause of death may have been a possible commonality between the two sets of murders. Both cases likely involve a killer with a local knowledge of the area where the bodies were left.

 

[Charlot123]

I would agree that you don't kill 2 teens in public in daylight if you haven't done things quite like it in the past. You don't get away with it for 2.5 years without experience either.

Maybe an ex-military dude? Attending a college nearby now.

The DNA! I bet there is some. If you are a local, meaning, likely, Pennsylvanian German, how can you avoid LE finding a match in Gedmatch? Even a distant one? And how is this DNA good for ruling people out, but not in? Must be rare.

 

[Gumbeaux]

I wonder if he evaded arrest because someone really helped him, to kill, or to “clean up”. Not just lied for him.

Ah, washed his clothes and maybe his sins away?