Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[BNA]

One opinion is that this person is prominent. Which would explain alot. Has that theory been discussed here?

In a way, yes. Sometimes those suggestions (some of which I have made myself) have been cut or thinned by the mods...due to TOS. Not supposed to discuss individuals who have not been named as POIs.

But, yes, my personal POI is a prominent individual in the state of Indiana.

 

[heartgoesout]

For what its worth (probably about nothing), here is my "profile" on the guy.. .the way he looks and the way he talks and maybe what happened.

The way this guy dressed just looks to me like any 30-40 year old guy who is a farm laborer or a construction day laborer that makes very little money. He's had these pants for 30 years...these are straight legged before it became cool again. Just enough money to get by (you can tell by his clothes and his general look). He may live in a small farm house that he either inherited from a parent or uncle or maybe rents an small apartment on the back of a house of some woman that sectioned off to charge rent to help make ends meet.

He is very much a loner. He loves guns and knives but can't afford many of them. Maybe the sort of person who also reads gun and knife magazines and maybe even True Detective magazine....but he has not committed a major crime before. He blends in. Never hardly speaks. But works mostly alone...like in a barn shoveling out manure.

He's wandering on the trail and the girls giggle when they walk by each other and he mistakenly thinks they are laughing at him. He soars into a rage to teach them a lesson. Waits to see that the coast is clear in both directions and then goes back to scare them.

He has a weapon concealed in his jacket pocket. He is so angry (maybe he hates girls from back in school when they wouldn't talk to him) and now he goes to teach them a lesson for laughing at him now. It gets out of hand and before he realized it he has actually forced them to go down beside the bridge. He sees the terror in their eyes and then he realizes that he has done something that will get him in trouble. and they can identify him. he is screwed.

He then kills them and leaves the area quickly. He has read enough crime magazines to know not to change the way he looks and to come up with an alibi.

Anyway, sorry for the post that is 99% speculation... but I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would attack girls like this out on a trail and I am looking at the guy's photo and trying to imagine how these murders could possibly have happened from this guy.

Crime magazines? Is that still a thing? and if he has little money he's spending it on True Crime magazines?
I don't want to profile someone as having little money based off a blurry sketch because then we may miss someone who was dressed down for the day.
Is 30-40 but had pants for 30 years?
I hate to pick apart your profile, I really do, but I think some of it is off. I don't think reading crime magazines would truly help someone know how to get away with double murder in broad daylight. Sorry to pick it apart.

 

[BNA]

Good questions.

Being embarrassed like that can happen to all of us. If you are insecure and can't handle people laughing at you, you fall apart.

I'll give you an example of myself when I was laughed at: I took my bicycle on vacation about 2 years ago. I was in my (tightly fitting) cycling jersey and to be honest, I weigh about 6'1" and a whopping 280 lbs... so I am NOT the typical skinny Tour de France looking cyclist. So, I had to stop for a red light. I was in the turn only lane in the left lane and these two young women pull up in a car next to me. I paid little attention but when I looked to my right at them, they were laughing uncontrollable and one was actually pulling back her arm after she had apparently pointed at me. It was about 10 seconds of very awkward embarrassment on both of our parts.

I'm sure they thought I was the fattest looking cyclist they had ever seen and what race could I possibly be in and that I was going to squash that poor bicycle. I was embarrassed for a little bit.. but I realized I am enjoying myself and don't care diddly about what other people think (to an extent). But then again, I am (pretty sure) that I am not an insecure psychopath.

I also think that is the tendency if someone suddenly starts laughing when you walk by, that may have set the guy off since there was nobody else around. He would not be grounded in the knowledge that teenage girls laugh at absolutely everything.

For some reason, I just don't think this abduction/murder was really planned much. But I certainly could be 100% wrong.

Very true. Personal example: Years after I had graduated from college, I took a trip to attend a college football bowl game. I was lodged in the same hotel as the marching band. While using an elevator in the hotel....an elevator which was crammed with members of the band plus myself....I made a comment (I cannot remember what it was....not being a big deal to me) that was met with total silence. So, I added something like: "I guess I am getting too old." One of the kids piped up: "times 3." LULZ. I can see how that might have set of somebody with an fragile ego.

 

[heartgoesout]

Is this theory one that is taken seriously by the community? Does the idea of the killer being a prominent figure not imply a coverup of some sorts? I've been curious about this, and seen the idea floated, but it hasn't been something I've personally waded too deep into because of the possible negative implications on LE and the community.
Forgive me if I've taken your words the wrong way, however.

Welcome 400bones. Glad to have you. Are you new to following the case?

 

[tresir2012]

Is this theory one that is taken seriously by the community? Does the idea of the killer being a prominent figure not imply a coverup of some sorts? I've been curious about this, and seen the idea floated, but it hasn't been something I've personally waded too deep into because of the possible negative implications on LE and the community.
Forgive me if I've taken your words the wrong way, however.

LE did actually say "hiding in plain sight" which would indicate he is a prominent individual so this is not speculation.
Not a low life criminal but someone in plain sight. Could mean LE, local businessman, public official, authority figure etc.
So why is BG not recognisable if he is in "plain sight" normally? This is how we must think about this to try and solve it.

 

[400bones]

Welcome 400bones. Glad to have you. Are you new to following the case?

Thank you for having me! I've been following the case on and off since it happened, primarily on Facebook.

 

[BNA]

LE did actually say "hiding in plain sight" which would indicate he is a prominent individual so this is not speculation.
Not a low life criminal but someone in plain sight. Could mean LE, local businessman, public official, authority figure etc.
So why is BG not recognisable if he is in "plain sight" normally? This is how we must think about this to try and solve it.

Maybe because he is not "local" to the Delphi region, but local with regards to the state of Indiana. JMO. Therefore, not easily recognizable to those truly local, plus his involvement being unimaginable to most folks.....like seeing somebody totally out of context in a strange place and not being able to place them. ...almost seeming like a tin foil hat type of theory. (And, I share it.)

 

[400bones]

LE did actually say "hiding in plain sight" which would indicate he is a prominent individual so this is not speculation.
Not a low life criminal but someone in plain sight. Could mean LE, local businessman, public official, authority figure etc.
So why is BG not recognisable if he is in "plain sight" normally? This is how we must think about this to try and solve it.

I always interpreted that as simply blending in as usual with the community, IMO "hiding in plain sight" could mean anyone, not necessarily someone of any stature. However, this is certainly interesting and does make sense in context with other statements from the press conference.

 

[Charlot123]

I personally get the willies over the idea of giving up a DNA sample.

The truth is, you might have already given it. You shed your DNA - your hair, your skin cells, your saliva, your sweat - everywhere you go. So if someone wants your DNA, they got it.

It is another question what people would do with it. As of today, I can think only of organ donation, but easier to deal with cloning... or go the route of stem cells.

As to the police "framing you" for the crime you did not commit, well, put yourself in their shoes. They need to find the serial killer and possibly, something else, who killed the two Delphi teenagers.

If they arrest someone else for it, and later the killings continue, and then someone, somewhere, catches this guy and they find out someone was framed with DNA...god saves them, because the LE is really in a tough bind. With the whole state of Indiana, because I can't imagine the sum of the lawsuit. OMG. So, I doubt that DNA will be used to frame anyone.

I made all my kits open for LE in Gedmatch, except for people who did not consent (very few). I did not fight with them, I said, OK. I wonder what happens if one day, one of my relatives, matches some profile... but put it like this, if my relative is able to kill two kids, or be the serial killer, I am unsafe under the same roof with such a person, too, because he would clearly be psychotic.

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe because he is not "local" to the Delphi region, but local with regards to the state of Indiana. JMO. Therefore, not easily recognizable to those truly local, plus his involvement being unimaginable to most folks.....like seeing somebody totally out of context in a strange place and not being able to place them. ...almost seeming like a tin foil hat type of theory. (And, I share it.)

So a prominent person statewide, yet LE say he is from Delphi or works or travels there. This is hard to fathom without specifics isn't it?

 

[Charlot123]

Very true. Personal example: Years after I had graduated from college, I took a trip to attend a college football bowl game. I was lodged in the same hotel as the marching band. While using an elevator in the hotel....an elevator which was crammed with members of the band plus myself....I made a comment (I cannot remember what it was....not being a big deal to me) that was met with total silence. So, I added something like: "I guess I am getting too old." One of the kids piped up: "times 3." LULZ. I can see how that might have set of somebody with an fragile ego.

... and someone without the sense of humor.

But it might have reverberated in his mind, reminding him of being bullied at school. I bet he was, and I bet he was socially excluded, and very angry, and maybe taking his anger on animals. And maybe, just maybe, these girls, giggling and making big eyes, reminded him of his ex-classmates who were bullies.

This is another thing. One way we can try to prevent senseless murders and mass killings is to deal with school bullies.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Crime magazines? Is that still a thing? and if he has little money he's spending it on True Crime magazines?
I don't want to profile someone as having little money based off a blurry sketch because then we may miss someone who was dressed down for the day.
Is 30-40 but had pants for 30 years?
I hate to pick apart your profile, I really do, but I think some of it is off. I don't think reading crime magazines would truly help someone know how to get away with double murder in broad daylight. Sorry to pick it apart.

Personal profiles IMO are just that.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The truth is, you might have already given it. You shed your DNA - your hair, your skin cells, your saliva, your sweat - everywhere you go. So if someone wants your DNA, they got it.

It is another question what people would do with it. As of today, I can think only of organ donation, but easier to deal with cloning... or go the route of stem cells.

As to the police "framing you" for the crime you did not commit, well, put yourself in their shoes. They need to find the serial killer and possibly, something else, who killed the two Delphi teenagers.

If they arrest someone else for it, and later the killings continue, and then someone, somewhere, catches this guy and they find out someone was framed...god saves them, because the LE is really in a tough bind. With the whole state of Indiana, because I can't imagine the sum of the lawsuit. OMG.

I made all my kits open for LE in Gedmatch, except for people who did not. I did not fight with them, I said, OK. I wonder what happens if one day, one of my relatives, matches some profile... but put it like this, if my relative is able to kill two kids, or be the serial killer, I am unsafe under the same roof with these people, too, because they are clearly psychotic.

I'm still not giving it up willingly.

 

[400bones]

The truth is, you might have already given it. You shed your DNA - your hair, your skin cells, your saliva, your sweat - everywhere you go. So if someone wants your DNA, they got it.

It is another question what people would do with it. As of today, I can think only of organ donation, but easier to deal with cloning... or go the route of stem cells.

As to the police "framing you" for the crime you did not commit, well, put yourself in their shoes. They need to find the serial killer and possibly, something else, who killed the two Delphi teenagers.

If they arrest someone else for it, and later the killings continue, and then someone, somewhere, catches this guy and they find out someone was framed...god saves them, because the LE is really in a tough bind. With the whole state of Indiana, because I can't imagine the sum of the lawsuit. OMG.

I made all my kits open for LE in Gedmatch, except for people who did not. I did not fight with them, I said, OK. I wonder what happens if one day, one of my relatives, matches some profile... but put it like this, if my relative is able to kill two kids, or be the serial killer, I am unsafe under the same roof with these people, too, because they are clearly psychotic.

A fear that people have is what will be done with their personal information. IMO Most folks don't worry about LE having access, but a lot worry about having their health information being sold to the highest bidder and how that could impact their healthcare, insurance, etc. etc. The fears aren't unfounded.

 

[sunshineray]

LE did actually say "hiding in plain sight" which would indicate he is a prominent individual so this is not speculation.
Not a low life criminal but someone in plain sight. Could mean LE, local businessman, public official, authority figure etc.
So why is BG not recognisable if he is in "plain sight" normally? This is how we must think about this to try and solve it.

Or if he is recognizable by some, why have they not given the information that can seal his fate for doing these murders? Do they not realize a murderer is in their midst or are they in denial. Then there's always the chance whomever may know are afraid to tell.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

I hope the perp gets hurled howling into h^ll. if he hasn't already made that journey.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm
And I'm sorry, but idk what OBE means. Out of Body Experience?

What does OBE mean? Just curious. Sorry...some of these acronyms I can figure out, but some no.

( @oceanblueeyes ? Hi OBE )

—-

I'm not quoting the specific post that I want to but the general thread... this is my first post -- go easy!
I was researching this today as I was curious as to if the lack (so far) of a DNA match collected from the alleged sample left by the suspect would mean he didn't have a criminal history. Stumbled upon an article that explained Indiana would begin sampling DNA from all felony arrests as of January 1st, 2018, whereas previously only felony convictions warranted this. I'm not from the US, let alone Indiana (I wish!), so other members will be better able to explain what this means in terms of significance (state charges vs federal?).
I just thought the timing of these proposed changes was interesting relative to the case, but that's just me reading into things, I'm sure.

New Indiana law requires DNA samples be collected following all felony arrests

Welcome 400bones. Great first post. Thank you for bringing forward that important article. This is something we certainly have talked before and imo, could be a huge reason why he may not be in the database.

 

[tresir2012]

I never got the answer the first time so am trying to be more diplomatic. I'm just asking questions.

And I'm sorry, but idk what OBE means. Out of Body Experience?

LOL. Overtaken by events. But I like your suggestion.

 

[Charlot123]

A fear that people have is what will be done with their personal information. IMO Most folks don't worry about LE having access, but a lot worry about having their health information being sold to the highest bidder and how that could impact their healthcare, insurance, etc. etc. The fears aren't unfounded.

"whether you're a carrier for certain genetic conditions like cystic fibrosis, people should be especially careful."

True. What if a young woman carries the gene for CF? And she is dating. I think it is an immensely positive find, because once she finds "Mr. Right", he has to be tested for CF carrier. And if no, then they are safe, and if yes, sadly, they should consider having kids.

There are always two sides to any gene.

 

[margarita25]

I read @momma_k ’s posts and thought, my theory of the Monon bridge being the place of spy rendezvous, goes up in ashes, lol. Because the Delphians think it is the local person. However, with Google maps, one can find the bridge, and get there, if someone needs it for whatever reason.

I still can’t imagine that if the LE have enough DNA, they can’t find the person. There are lots of things one can do with DNA alone to narrow down the perp. And if Gedmatch doesn’t have the person’s relatives, there are similar sites in other countries, all the LE need is ask for collaboration. No one wants a killer to stay free. And if the guy was that stupid as @momma_k implies, to leave ample DNA, something doesn’t fit.

One of my thoughts has always been that if the DNA sample is minute, it could be consumed within one testing. I’ve seen LE talk about this aspect in other cases before, where it’s a hard decision whether or not to:

A) Risk running the minute sample right away, which means it would be consumed, preventing further future testing to check for cross matches against CODIS as new persons’ samples are inputted in the system, as well as preventing any chance of running that sample in the future when technology improves, if the sample is one which potentially can not be definitively isolated at this time due to its quality or size.

vs.

B) Wait until technology has approved (which it always is) so that if the sample is potentially too degraded or small at this time, it might not be in the future.

I can’t think of the exact quote right now, but I’ve mentioned the above a few times in relation to something I potentially inferred imo by something LE said somewhere...I’ll try to remember.

—

BBM:

All of the above leads to complications. Plus they were wearing borrowed sweatshirt tops.

Can you please refresh my memory about that. Source? I can’t remember if I remember that or not. Thank you. The more time that passes, the hazier my recollection becomes...