Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[tresir2012]

Again, I am just offering my perspective as are you. I am just looking to brainstorm and add perspective from my experience. Perspective is just that. And until the file is released, if ever, no one will truly know. This case has had a direct affect on the place I call home. I just want to help. If you want to have a constructive conversation with me, I'm willing. I'm curious as to where you are from. Seems just close enough to identify with the area.... But not perhaps actually in the area. I'm starting to think that perhaps what you really want to achieve is not necessarily inline with the spirit of this thread.

I am not from anywhere near the area at all but assure you I only want the same as you. The killer caught. You are mistaken about my aims completely. I won't be apologising for asking questions for sure.
Were you at the PC? Do you think the perp was at the PC. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It makes you wonder. Do you think ISP Carter saying "could be in this room" narrows the meaning of the word "local" in this case? Where I live I wouldn't consider anyone outside my town of 55,000+ local but then my county's population is huge as we have the biggest city in our state within it.

I took "could be in this room" to mean something along the line of:

Could be pumping gas next to you at the gas station, behind you in the grocery store line, 3 seats down at the high school football game.

JMO

 

[tresir2012]

It makes you wonder. Do you think ISP Carter saying "could be in this room" narrows the meaning of the word "local" in this case? Where I live I wouldn't consider anyone outside my town of 55,000+ local but then my county's population is huge as we have the biggest city in our state within it.

I dunno. I don't live there and don't know what LE means by saying he is local. I'm just asking dumb questions apparently. My local interpretation is different from yours and LE's I am sure but I am just going by the case map showing where search warrants have been executed as an example. I mean how far did people travel to be at that PC could give some idea maybe.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I think you should probably drop the topic now as being OBE IMO.

I never got the answer the first time so am trying to be more diplomatic. I'm just asking questions.

And I'm sorry, but idk what OBE means. Out of Body Experience?

 

[tresir2012]

Charlot don't you think it kinda does fit? The sherriff commented in December 2018, albeit to Radar Online, that DNA was sent away to the FBI to do "DNA testing research" and four months later the April PC and the language stating an investigative strategy change happens, the two year old sketch is tanked for an early done sketch never released. The police state the killer is local and in plain site. All those actions have to have a cause. It seems the simplest and most logical cause came about from the DNA testing undertaken in those previous months to the April PC.

So who the heck is he if they have done research? I sure hope they have got somewhere with that.

 

[tresir2012]

I never got the answer the first time so am trying to be more diplomatic.

Oh well join the club. My questions often get ignored too. Don't take it personally - I try not to.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Oh well join the club. My questions often get ignored too. Don't take it personally - I try not to.

What does OBE mean? Just curious. Sorry...some of these acronyms I can figure out, but some no.

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting approach. Grandparents would likely be in USA if he is young end of the age range.

Grandparents might be in the US, but if no one did ancestry, downloaded into Gedmatch and made it open to LE, he might be "unseen". If he is from a "good" family, his grandparents/parents/cousins are not in CODIS. Look up the states that don't take felon's swabs - if he moved from WA, or NY, it is almost hopeless.
So to find him through his Irish/English/German/whatever relatives might be easier. It would be a strike of luck if he were Finnish, as they have a wonderful tree for basically the whole country.

One more idea - I would not check his looks through parabon or any other system. If they really have his DNA, I would, if I were LE, check his blood group through Promethease.

Blood group might be rare. And, he might be registered in blood banks, or maybe he served in the army? Both would keep place of residence/blood groups.

AB negative is very rare. 0 Rh+, of course, would not give much. Depending on what he has, that could narrow down the population.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think you maybe don't want to answer then. That's ok. Searches were conducted in Peru and Lebanon, they are on the case map, that is fact. Etter, someone who LE are looking into, killed himself in Lebanon, so I am interested in what LE mean by local, not necessarily what locals mean by local.

While Etter killed himself in Lebanon, he was from Lafayette and committed a crime there. It's 20 miles from Delphi, give or take. That's very much a local area. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Charlot don't you think it kinda does fit? The sherriff commented in December 2018, albeit to Radar Online, that DNA was sent away to the FBI to do "DNA testing research" and four months later the April PC and the language stating an investigative strategy change happens, the two year old sketch is tanked for an early done sketch never released. The police state the killer is local and in plain site. All those actions have to have a cause. It seems the simplest and most logical cause came about from the DNA testing undertaken in those previous months to the April PC.

Oh I don't think it fits now. Two days ago, I had doubts that he were local, and doubts they had good DNA. It was one of the theories because I ran out of any. And I don't have a POI because I am far from Indiana, and I try not to compare faces to a sketch because I am not sure the sketch is true.

I might compare gaits/faces to the video, though. I have a very strange feeling about the video, but can't explain. In short, my feeling is, he is not quite in plain sight, but someone living at a farm with a grandma, spending a lot of time on a computer, and being nerdy, is my intuitive feeling about the guy.

I hope they have good DNA, but having good DNA and no criminal in two years is somewhat strange, you know?

 

[CSIDreamer]

They sure are. I think I am the only one in Indiana who loves looking for them but absolutely hates eating them.

I'll be happy to take them off your hands.

 

[sunshineray]

I dunno. I don't live there and don't know what LE means by saying he is local. I'm just asking dumb questions apparently. My local interpretation is different from yours and LE's I am sure but I am just going by the case map showing where search warrants have been executed as an example. I mean how far did people travel to be at that PC could give some idea maybe.

I don't think you're asking dumb questions. I understand the need for clarity. We have land in a rural area of VT and our neighbors, way down the road, I know they consider over the mountain a good 10 miles away as local to them. But I'm not sure they'd expect those same folks over that mountain to be too interested in their side to travel for a PC that can be viewed on TV or online while it's happening. Unless of course they were close friends or family to the victims. JMO

 

[FinePrint]

I think the town of Delphi should encourage everyone to do the DNA kit thing and allow it to be Gedmatched. They should have 23andme or some group like that set up a booth in front of the court house and offer free test kits...

Just trying to think out of the box folks!!!!

 

[Justice101]

following

 

[Rossymom]

I dunno. I don't live there and don't know what LE means by saying he is local. I'm just asking dumb questions apparently. My local interpretation is different from yours and LE's I am sure but I am just going by the case map showing where search warrants have been executed as an example. I mean how far did people travel to be at that PC could give some idea maybe.

I consider Delphi local because it's a small town (like mine) and only a couple of counties from me. It takes me about 40 minutes to drive there. Between Indianapolis and Chicago, our state is littered with little towns separated by bean and corn fields. I make the drive to Carroll County often because we have a child that lives there. I've stated before, I was in Carroll County on 2/13/17 because I was delivering Valentine's Day chocolates to our son to surprise his wife the following day. I remember the drive so well because it was beautiful on that day. It reminded all of us that Spring would be here

 

[FinePrint]

I consider Delphi local because it's a small town (like mine) and only a couple of counties from me. It takes me about 40 minutes to drive there. Between Indianapolis and Chicago, our state is littered with little towns separated by bean and corn fields. I make the drive to Carroll County often because we have a child that lives there. I've stated before, I was in Carroll County on 2/13/17 because I was delivering Valentine's Day chocolates to our son to surprise his wife the following day. I remember the drive so well because it was beautiful on that day. It reminded all of us that Spring would be here soon.

Same, about 30-35 minute drive to Delphi from here!!

 

[MingyMoo]

I agree. No need to apologise for language. I have many other more colorful words to use. And again agreed. While I respect LE, there is something to be said for releasing at least a bit more information. One, I could definitely go into more detail here and that discussion could possibly help end this. Two, human nature is to speculate. With so little to go on, speculations can actually be more damaging to the family than the truth released. That was certainly the case here for quite awhile. I know folks involved in the search, etc. And it is quite difficult for them to not correct all of the speculators. It's just down right complicated.

I am literally watching every word I say. I am by no means an expert, and I am only trying to help. I've already learned a few lessons in just a few hours. You all are very thorough, and pick up on even small nuances. I have to be very careful about every word, and apologize in advance for anything I have said or will say that may be perceived out of the context it was intended. I am merely a very concerned citizen, trying to do what I consider to be my responsibility as not only a citizen of Delphi, but if the world. If everyone cared as much as the folks on here, the world would be a very different place. Kudos to you all.

Very often small Nuances is all we have to go on, which in turn causes speculation and discussion.Agreement and disagreement so message is be careful of small Nuances. Before they turn from personal opinion in to fact always quote IMHO or any other derivative. I for one appreciate you being here.

It makes you wonder. Do you think ISP Carter saying "could be in this room" narrows the meaning of the word "local" in this case? Where I live I wouldn't consider anyone outside my town of 55,000+ local but then my county's population is huge as we have the biggest city in our state within it.

I actually think he means local as in City /town of Delphi or surrounding area. Flora. Lafayette etc and probably 25 miles circumference of Delphi Just a personal opinion.

MingyMoo

 

[400bones]

What if the perps DNA is not back yet? The recent murder of a young mother involving 5 perps, the DNA is not expected back till November - that's 7 months. (See my signature case)

Welcome to WS BTW. So good to have local knowledge on here.

I'm not quoting the specific post that I want to but the general thread... this is my first post -- go easy!
I was researching this today as I was curious as to if the lack (so far) of a DNA match collected from the alleged sample left by the suspect would mean he didn't have a criminal history. Stumbled upon an article that explained Indiana would begin sampling DNA from all felony arrests as of January 1st, 2018, whereas previously only felony convictions warranted this. I'm not from the US, let alone Indiana (I wish!), so other members will be better able to explain what this means in terms of significance (state charges vs federal?).
I just thought the timing of these proposed changes was interesting relative to the case, but that's just me reading into things, I'm sure.

New Indiana law requires DNA samples be collected following all felony arrests

 

[sunshineray]

So who the heck is he if they have done research? I sure hope they have got somewhere with that.

I think they can only narrow it down to a family, some of which live local and some don't maybe only visiting. That witness that generated the NBG sketch may be the only one to see BG...and maybe the witness who saw someone leave by way of the cemetery but at too great a distance for facial recognition. I think there may be multiple men in this DNA gene pool that favor the trail witness's description so maybe they cannot positively identify them out of that family group. That could be why the vehicle info was so important for LE to confirm. I don't know, just some thoughts.

 

[Justice101]

For what its worth (probably about nothing), here is my "profile" on the guy.. .the way he looks and the way he talks and maybe what happened.

The way this guy dressed just looks to me like any 30-40 year old guy who is a farm laborer or a construction day laborer that makes very little money. He's had these pants for 30 years...these are straight legged before it became cool again. Just enough money to get by (you can tell by his clothes and his general look). He may live in a small farm house that he either inherited from a parent or uncle or maybe rents an small apartment on the back of a house of some woman that sectioned off to charge rent to help make ends meet.

He is very much a loner. He loves guns and knives but can't afford many of them. Maybe the sort of person who also reads gun and knife magazines and maybe even True Detective magazine....but he has not committed a major crime before. He blends in. Never hardly speaks. But works mostly alone...like in a barn shoveling out manure.

He's wandering on the trail and the girls giggle when they walk by each other and he mistakenly thinks they are laughing at him. He soars into a rage to teach them a lesson. Waits to see that the coast is clear in both directions and then goes back to scare them.

He has a weapon concealed in his jacket pocket. He is so angry (maybe he hates girls from back in school when they wouldn't talk to him) and now he goes to teach them a lesson for laughing at him now. It gets out of hand and before he realized it he has actually forced them to go down beside the bridge. He sees the terror in their eyes and then he realizes that he has done something that will get him in trouble. and they can identify him. he is screwed.

He then kills them and leaves the area quickly. He has read enough crime magazines to know not to change the way he looks and to come up with an alibi.

Anyway, sorry for the post that is 99% speculation... but I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would attack girls like this out on a trail and I am looking at the guy's photo and trying to imagine how these murders could possibly have happened from this guy.