Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[tresir2012]

One of my thoughts has always been that if the DNA sample is minute, it could be consumed within one testing. I’ve seen LE talk about this aspect in other cases before, where it’s a hard decision whether or not to:

A) Risk running the minute sample right away, which means it would be consumed, preventing further future testing to check for cross matches against CODIS as new persons’ samples are inputted in the system, as well as preventing any chance of running that sample in the future when technology improves, if the sample is one which potentially can not be definitively isolated at this time due to its quality or size.

vs.

B) Wait until technology has approved (which it always is) so that if the sample is potentially too degraded or small at this time, it might not be in the future.

I can’t think of the exact quote right now, but I’ve mentioned the above a few times in relation to something I potentially inferred imo by something LE said somewhere...I’ll try to remember.

—

BBM:


Can you please refresh my memory about that. Source? I can’t remember if I remember that or not. Thank you. The more time that passes, the hazier my recollection becomes...

Kelsie lent them both sweatshirts. Abbey is pictured on high bridge wearing it. Presumably Libby had on one too so there could be Kelsies DNA, Kelsie's BF DNA etc.

 

[margarita25]

I can only speculate but it's def a possibility. Even good girls go boy crazy.

I'm only saying if you wanted to meet up with a boy without your parents knowledge, even for innocent reasons, a teen would think of that place. A local parent could not just drive by and rat you out like other local parks, gathering spots.

There are some other very good theories that are also innocent reasons for them to be there. I just can't stop thinking that's a perfect spot for a predator to meet up with someone who believes they are a handsome young man. He could even have portrayed himself as a homeschool kid, or from a neighboring school, or even someone they kinda know. Fake profiles are a real problem.

This idea has been followed, but with the tight lipped nature of the investigation, at this point there is no way to say it's been ruled out. Hell, not much has been.

Again, all I am saying is if I was a teen and wanted to meet up with someone without getting ratted out that would certainly be a spot I would consider. My daughter complains because you can't get away with anything here lol. Which is ideal as a parent

The problem I have with this scenario is that LE would be able to determine if the girls were communicating with anyone via their electronic footprints, unless they were so technically savvy to do hide this, or perhaps were groomed by an individual in advance (given a burner phone, given technical directions for secret app, etc)... LE has no doubt scoured the SM angles, etc.

Also, we haven’t really gotten any potential indicators about this being the case that I can think of off the top of my head, other than LE’s initial and early statement to “know what your kids are doing”. Perhaps there are other comments I can’t think of atm.

(ETA: Let ya not forget the best quote of all which is “draw your own conclusions..” Yeah don’t get me started on that again. That bothered me then and it still bothers me now, moo.)

Secondly, if this is the case, a “catfish” type of scenario, then how does this potentially correlate with statements made in the latest PC re: this person having ties to Delphi, etc.? Local IP address analysis?

Idk, imo if there was an electronic angle I would think LE would know about it. Of course there is the chance they may suspect this as a possibility if there was indeed some indication of communication, and they tried to track that person but he may have successfully covered his electronic trail.

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Kelsie lent them both sweatshirts. Abbey is pictured on high bridge wearing it. Presumably Libby had on one too so there could be Kelsies DNA, Kelsie's BF DNA etc.

Thank you, what is the source of this information? I’ll admit I didn’t get a chance to watch KG’s “debunking video”, so I’m guessing it may be from that? Tia.

 

[Charlot123]

That was definitely poor wording on my part - I didn't mean to imply that a lack of a match necessitates that the suspect and/or source of alleged DNA profile doesn't have a criminal history, only that no prior history could be of many reasons why no match has come back.

And you're right - if it truly is only trace/touch DNA, it has mainly been used to rule out suspects rather than to paint a picture of the perp.

So here are different laws concerning DNA collection from arrestees

So if the relatives of BG moved from KY, IA or IL, or live there, even if they were arrested, chances are, they are not in CODIS.

 

[margarita25]

So here are different laws concerning DNA collection from arrestees

Wow, I feel like I need to frame that or something...could come in handy in a plethora of cases here. Marking and tagging “DNA Collection Laws By State” so I can pull that up later, thanks.

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While Etter killed himself in Lebanon, he was from Lafayette and committed a crime there. It's 20 miles from Delphi, give or take. That's very much a local area. JMO

Yeah I think the term “semi-local” is a good word that has been used here quite a bit. I’m not local of course, but I would consider places like Lafayette, Kokomo, etc perhaps as “semi local”.

 

[zoricaj1]

i just don't believe they communicated with someone online and that's how this happened... IMO they would have been caught already if that was the case!

 

[Charlot123]

I'm still not giving it up willingly.

Hey, it is a free country!

I think there was a psychological mistake that the companies using Gedmatch to catch criminals have made. Many of us spend time and money making our trees and testing out DNAs. Yes these genealogy companies charge police a lot for their work. Predictably, the work is hard.

Maybe - just maybe - if they “donated” the trees they made when catching the criminal to the “critical relative” (the one who was in Gedmatch, and the one who was the “matching cousin” for the perp) for free, as recognition of the person’s “civil responsibly”, more people would agree to open their trees for the police. No one wants to do something for free, and then someone else is making money on it. Human nature.

Same with 23@me that sells its bulk DNAs to pharmaceutical companies. (I opted out of their research, but I still use 23@me because they are very good for Promethease). I could have opted into research, but the thought that 23@me makes a lot of $$ for out DNAs, and we have to pay for tests, is unpleasant.

 

[Charlot123]

One of my thoughts has always been that if the DNA sample is minute, it could be consumed within one testing. I’ve seen LE talk about this aspect in other cases before, where it’s a hard decision whether or not to:

A) Risk running the minute sample right away, which means it would be consumed, preventing further future testing to check for cross matches against CODIS as new persons’ samples are inputted in the system, as well as preventing any chance of running that sample in the future when technology improves, if the sample is one which potentially can not be definitively isolated at this time due to its quality or size.

vs.

B) Wait until technology has approved (which it always is) so that if the sample is potentially too degraded or small at this time, it might not be in the future.

I can’t think of the exact quote right now, but I’ve mentioned the above a few times in relation to something I potentially inferred imo by something LE said somewhere...I’ll try to remember.

—

BBM:


Can you please refresh my memory about that. Source? I can’t remember if I remember that or not. Thank you. The more time that passes, the hazier my recollection becomes...

If they have little DNA, they can amplify it by PCR, make “copies” of it. Even “pieces” they can amplify, although it still will be pieces, only more.

 

[margarita25]

If they have little DNA, they can amplify it by PCR, make “copies” of it. Even “pieces” they can amplify, although it still will be pieces, only more.

Hmmm...perhaps my comment above then refers to outdated episodes of Forensic Files, LOL. I’m sure you’re right and I’d be interested in seeing the latest data and articles on this. Care to please elaborate or provide any links? I’ll take a peek as well. Thanks. Because I could’ve sworn sometimes you only get one shot, that sometimes a DNA sample can be totally consumed in one testing. But this area of DNA is advancing dramatically and immensely as we know. I know there’s cloning, etc...

(O/T, not sure if you’ve seen this thread, but you may find it of interest (I might have already said this before, deja vu)

DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match. )

 

[tresir2012]

Thank you, what is the source of this information? I’ll admit I didn’t get a chance to watch KG’s “debunking video”, so I’m guessing it may be from that? Tia.

No I think it was earlier than that but she has done a few. Two Renner interviews, Gray Hughes interviews, Dr. Phil. and I can't remember which it was in. It was probably the same one where she misspoke and said 10-20 were at the trails when she dropped them off. Probably that one - the GH one possibly.

 

[margarita25]

No I think it was earlier than that but she has done a few. Two Renner interviews, Gray Hughes interviews, Dr. Phil. and I can't remember which it was in. It was probably the same one where she misspoke and said 10-20 were at the trails when she dropped them off. Probably that one - the GH one possibly.

(Thanks, that helps a lot, NOT! Just kidding!

Source anyone? Tia.

 

[susiQ]

Hmmm...perhaps my comment above then refers to outdated episodes of Forensic Files, LOL. I’m sure you’re right and I’d be interested in seeing the latest data and articles on this. Care to please elaborate or provide any links? I’ll take a peek as well. Thanks. Because I could’ve sworn sometimes you only get one shot, that sometimes a DNA sample can be totally consumed in one testing. But this area of DNA is advancing dramatically and immensely as we know. I know there’s cloning, etc...

(O/T, not sure if you’ve seen this thread, but you may find it of interest (I might have already said this before, deja vu)

DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match. )

I recall in the KB case there was an item that was classified as "consumptive", meaning it would be destroyed during testing and they only had one shot at it, and is the reason the defence was allowed to be present during that test.
eta: as the defence could not have it independently tested.

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks, that helps a lot, NOT! Just kidding!)

Source anyone? Tia.

There was also an infamous Indy podcast she did. We should get these all on the media thread if they are not on there. There are 10 separate Renner interviews, and the others I mentioned.

 

[tresir2012]

I recall in the KB case there was an item that was classified as "consumptive", meaning it would be destroyed during testing and they only had one shot at it, and is the reason the defence was allowed to be present during that test.

I don't really get this because once they have the DNA genomes in a computer all they need is the perps sample to load up those genomes and visibly compare them on a computer. The physical tests wouldn't be necessary anymore surely would they?

 

[susiQ]

I don't really get this because once they have the DNA genomes in a computer all they need is the perps sample to load up those genomes and visibly compare them on a computer. The physical tests wouldn't be necessary anymore surely would they?

Well, I'm not a genetics expert, I'm merely relaying what has happened on another very recent case in which they have the monster in custody. It's the Kelsey Berreth case on WS.

 

[PaulaDC]

If they have DNA, then why no match? He is maybe not already in Codis, he may not be in the ancestry sites either. Or they are bluffing that they have DNA at all or it can only be traced to a maternal line. Are there other possibilities?

I believe I've posted this before, my hubby, 61 yrs old, dna test thru 23 and GED and not 1 paternal match in almost 2 years. So very possible.

 

[margarita25]

I recall in the KB case there was an item that was classified as "consumptive", meaning it would be destroyed during testing and they only had one shot at it, and is the reason the defence was allowed to be present during that test.
eta: as the defence could not have it independently tested.

Thank you, susiQ! (“Baby I love you, Suzie Q...”....sorry can’t help it)

I have followed KB’s case only from a distance so was not aware that that was a factor there I don’t think so thank you very much. This in fact proves then that IS a possibility here, considering KB’s case is happening virtually in “real time”.

So it’s seems then @Charlot123 that perhaps this technology of multiplying, etc that you were referencing is not necessarily applicable when it comes to “consumptive samples”, as indicated by the KB case? I would think they would have tried to do this if they could?

Perhaps that’s an area in the works of development and advancement, what we are currently speaking of..(If not, let’s suggest a program, call it BGID...).

 

[zoricaj1]

Mystery surrounds death of 20-year-old woman found in New Albany home


i know it says southern IN but its weird how no information is given at all

 

[IceIce9]

Mystery surrounds death of 20-year-old woman found in New Albany home

I know it says southern IN but its weird how no information is given at all

Look who is from New Albany and released from prison on Thursday, the day before this woman’s body was found.

Last of four charged with murder, torture of New Albany teen in 1992 released

 

[kc1023]

Mystery surrounds death of 20-year-old woman found in New Albany home


i know it says southern IN but its weird how no information is given at all

WOW! Is there a thread for that yet?!

 

[Yemelyan]

"whether you're a carrier for certain genetic conditions like cystic fibrosis, people should be especially careful."

True. What if a young woman carries the gene for CF? And she is dating. I think it is an immensely positive find, because once she finds "Mr. Right", he has to be tested for CF carrier. And if no, then they are safe, and if yes, sadly, they should consider having kids.

There are always two sides to any gene.

Personal opinion, I don't really consider it a positive to know this...perhaps a perspective born out of the uniquely American problems with our healthcare system. There is a very real fear that if insurance companies could find out whether you carried genes for Parkinson's or colon cancer, let's say, that they could refuse to insure you at all. If you read the linked article above, you would see a major reason why forensic genealogy, IF it has been employed in this case, may have failed to reveal a familial match. Many people discover after doing these tests that their parentage is not what they thought it was. And it happens much more commonly than most people think. So it's definitely possible that genealogy has been done but the perp is not tied in any meaningful way to his actual paternal parentage, for example.