Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Charlot123]

Of course there is a possibility they could have been saved. When was sunset that day do we know (I'll look it up) I think maybe a few minutes before 5pm.

So it Derrick is there at 3:15 and the family arrives soon after, that is a good hour of sunlight right there. It takes a while for it to get completely dark. LE arrived sometime after 5pm. The girls were within less than a mile from where they were dropped off. Actually I think they were like 1/2 mile from the drop off. That is not a huge area.

These are modern times, we have high powered flashlights. Sure there is some danger but who is going to be running through the woods when they are searching. You can shine a flashlight in front of you to see what the terrain is to avoid any problems.. come on!! I was in the Army and spent most of the time on field maneuvers. We never had such excuses!! And then not to return until 10 am is just insane.

Who could sleep??? If they thought the the girls might have ran away don't people have cell phones these days? In a matter of minutes you could make all the calls to those known people they may have ran away to. Maybe a call to the mom in Kentucky would eliminate that scenario. I'm sure she would be able to figure out if they were headed her way by vibes given off in recent conversations. They didn't have a car or couldn't even drive.

By 4:30 they should have had a pretty good idea something was really wrong and that they needed to get all resources out there in those woods to find those girls. Who calls their dad and asks them to pick them up and then stands him up... doesn't make any sense at all. If your planning on running away why would you bother calling him and asking to be picked up. Just simply get your ride to the trail and you can take off from there if your planning to run away! Where is common sense here....

Truly a real failure in MOO!!!

Absolutely. And here is another thing, so what if they ran away? If a young pretty girl runs away, the first thing I think about that young beautiful women on the streets can be raped, assaulted, abused, that they are a commodity and can be used by some adults, sorry to say. Unless I call their friends and find out that the girls are in their friend's house and talk to the person's mom, I'd be very concerned with the teenagers being on the run! And if I don't find the girls, if their cellphone is off, I'd be unable to go to bed.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Add to own idea. Detective Lazenby has to scratch his memory.

Did he do a renovation in his house? Did he hear the foreman talking to his crew, like, “guys”...?

I doubt he ever went to Indiana packers, but if he remembers the voice and does not remember, where, he has to look at services (we tend not to notice people but hear them), restaurants, bars, trace his own steps/life. I think he might remember.

It could be someone he interviewed or arrested previously. Even years back.

 

[moonlessnight]

what's weirder is the shadow of sasquatch in the trees above the bridge.

OMG I forgot this one as well, Yep I can see the two posts that are meant to be there behind Abby but I do actually see something else I am really finding it very difficult to un-see and now put it down to old age and vivid imagination. I am not about to highlight point or put circles around it if you see it you see it if you dont you dont however what I see is a figure to the right of the two posts on the footpath very pixulated. I have put it down to a trick on the eyes and shadows too much zooming in

MM

 

[moonlessnight]

exactly. runaways are more likely to be exploited and trafficked. just bc they are escaping (usually) abusive homes doesn't mean they deserve to be crime victims.

I could never sleep - I'd be out all night myself.

Absolutely. And here is another thing, so what if they ran away? If a young pretty girl runs away, the first thing I think about that young beautiful women on the streets can be raped, assaulted, abused, that they are a commodity and can be used by some adults, sorry to say. Unless I call their friends and find out that the girls are in their friend's house and talk to the person's mom, I'd be very concerned with the teenagers being on the run! And if I don't find the girls, if their cellphone is off, I'd be unable to go to bed.

 

[moonlessnight]

oh - so she saw BG first and was suspicious and then saw the girls?

Only one of the witnesses who wished she had warned them apparently IIRC.

 

[moonlessnight]

I know LE and family were there searching, but it wasn't an organized grid, search and rescue search - it was kids and neighbors and friends who apparently contaminated the CS.

I agree they should have searched formally that day, but I dunno if the girls were still alive past 3:30pm.

Of course there is a possibility they could have been saved. When was sunset that day do we know (I'll look it up) I think maybe a few minutes before 5pm.

So it Derrick is there at 3:15 and the family arrives soon after, that is a good hour of sunlight right there. It takes a while for it to get completely dark. LE arrived sometime after 5pm. The girls were within less than a mile from where they were dropped off. Actually I think they were like 1/2 mile from the drop off. That is not a huge area.

These are modern times, we have high powered flashlights. Sure there is some danger but who is going to be running through the woods when they are searching. You can shine a flashlight in front of you to see what the terrain is to avoid any problems.. come on!! I was in the Army and spent most of the time on field maneuvers. We never had such excuses!! And then not to return until 10 am is just insane.

Who could sleep??? If they thought the the girls might have ran away don't people have cell phones these days? In a matter of minutes you could make all the calls to those known people they may have ran away to. Maybe a call to the mom in Kentucky would eliminate that scenario. I'm sure she would be able to figure out if they were headed her way by vibes given off in recent conversations. They didn't have a car or couldn't even drive.

By 4:30 they should have had a pretty good idea something was really wrong and that they needed to get all resources out there in those woods to find those girls. Who calls their dad and asks them to pick them up and then stands him up... doesn't make any sense at all. If your planning on running away why would you bother calling him and asking to be picked up. Just simply get your ride to the trail and you can take off from there if your planning to run away! Where is common sense here....

Truly a real failure in MOO!!!

 

[Boxer]

The more I think about it, the stranger it seems. (Maybe I should stop thinking about it?)

Because, it scares me to think that these two girls were thrown away because of something something....that their well-being was devalued because of something something.

MOO Police wanted it not to be a big deal
and it would all work out to be teenage non-communication issue. MOO Parents knew. Anna is crushing her hysteria down in the one snip of video I saw if her that night.

 

[moonlessnight]

What I am remembering was from an interview on TV with Mike, Becky, and Anna. I think it was Mike who actually said "runaway" when they were discussing their frame of mind and perspective at the time they arrived at the trails. It could have been a Renner youtube interview. I will try to find that link later. I barely saw anything on Abby's g'father so I don't believe what I am remembering came from him.

We should be careful about which grandfather we're referencing, probably best to add initials.

The article quotes Dennis B., whom Liberty did not live with.

Mike P. was not quoted as saying they would've run away, etc. He knew Abby very well from all quotes he's made publicly.

Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[tresir2012]

oh - so she saw BG first and was suspicious and then saw the girls?

Apparently so.

 

[Boxer]

MP is actually Libby's step Grandfather not her Grandfather. But it is clear in the article that it is her maternal Grandfather who says this, but he also clarifies at the end that if Libby said she would be somewhere, then she would be there so that clearly shows her good character to be there as arranged IMO.

They were A students good kids, sports, playing instruments etc.

 

[moonlessnight]

right. but "thousands" of volunteer searchers were out, so it was not - not a big deal at all. I don't think that many people would be searching so soon if no one thought it was a big deal. LE thought it was not a big deal, but others thought it was.

MOO Police wanted it not to be a big deal
and it would all work out to be teenage non-communication issue. MOO Parents knew. Anna is crushing her hysteria down in the one snip of video I saw if her that night.

 

[SilentRogue]

Any theories on what could bring someone from outside of Delphi/Carrol County to the area, specifically Monon High Bridge?

I know LE are working on the theory that the individual is local, but what if he isn't?

Are there any websites or links (i.e. best birdwatching locations, atlas obscura, low-traffic hikes, old bridges, etc...) that directly link Monon High Bridge?

 

[moonlessnight]

and maybe the guy who saw "a couple" under the bridge. no one else mentioned a couple being there, so what was it a couple of? a couple under the bridge at the time the murders were allegedly occurring? I don't necessarily believe the statements about the murders happening within minutes of the video. they won't release TOD which may mean they need info from the killer to nail it down. I mean, minutes is vague - 24 hours can be measured in minutes.

Yes I think it is strange no one else saw or heard them at all. This was from 1:40 to around 2:30/3.00. DG arrived at 3.11 approx and the girls were nowhere to be seen or heard by this time. So was nobody on the trails between 1:40 and 3.11 except that one person who saw BG and the girls?

 

[FinePrint]

I know LE says they didn’t use search dogs because so many people were out there but that just doesn’t make sense.

LE could have had dogs out there by 5:30. Yes there may have been a lot of people but there are a lot of people in airports too and the dogs can still figure out who is concealing drugs out of hundreds of people.

Most counties have search dogs and if not ISP does.

 

[moonlessnight]

I was stunned by the words people were using at that time, with no commensurate sense of urgency. I think they were all in shock, suspecting the worst but working within denial.

MOO Police wanted it not to be a big deal
and it would all work out to be teenage non-communication issue. MOO Parents knew. Anna is crushing her hysteria down in the one snip of video I saw if her that night.

 

[Boxer]

right. but "thousands" of volunteer searchers were out, so it was not - not a big deal at all. I don't think that many people would be searching so soon if no one thought it was a big deal. LE thought it was not a big deal, but others thought it was.

Right. Everyone in the country listening to the news 2/13/17 knew it was a big deal, and were dismayed by its being called off.

On 2/13/17 thought maybe they police thought the girls were in the hands of a kidnapper in the woods and they "called it off" to encourage the criminal to try and get away, while they had covert officers at every possible exit from the area since criminals follow police activity. They follow their own crime on their smart phones in real time. But sadly it looks like they did not do that.

 

[moonlessnight]

I don't think the killer is someone in LE, but if it were, would they have somehow dismissed serious concerns and directed the response away from a search?

Not sure if the failed LE response was due to small town implicit bias, or conspiracy.

I know LE says they didn’t use search dogs because so many people were out there but that just doesn’t make sense.

LE could have had dogs out there by 5:30. Yes there may have been a lot of people but there are a lot of people in airports too and the dogs can still figure out who is concealing drugs out of hundreds of people.

Most counties have search dogs and if not ISP does.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

< modsnip> Justice shall be implacable and grim

 

[Yesiamapirate]

So I have followed this all along but rarely post. Anyways, can someone tell me this: Where were the girls found in relation to the initial search? It just seems like they would have been found that first night? Did they miss them or is it a bigger area than what they initially looked in?

 

[rainwaterstill]

What strikes me as very important and a bit eerie is Sheriff Leazenby saying he's heard BG's voice before. For him to even mention that to an interviewer means he's pretty certain and wracking his brain about it. Otherwise he would never have said that. IMO

I wonder if hypnotizing the Sheriff might help him place or recall when/where he heard BG's voice before. Maybe hypnotize to recall 2016, 2015, or 2014. Or if that has already been done and LE isn't saying.......