Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Justice101]

Still following... hoping for the day this board it lit up!

 

[heartgoesout]

That may be the case however

1. No one physically saw them other than the obvious BG
2. They posted a picture whilst they were on the Bridge
3. DG could not raise them on the phone
4. No family member could raise them on the phone
5. They weren't dressed for a cold February night outside
6. I take it friends hadn't heard from them first thing you do check with friends and the friends parents
7. It was tricky terrain
8. It appeared to be out of character although quite willing to be corrected on that.
   • Unless there were problems at home that we the GP are unaware of that led LE to the assumption, They were with friends or simply runaway.

All that points to two vulnerable young ladies that no one had heard from on a winters evening.

LE should have hoped for the best case scenario with friends or runaway but acted on the worst case scenario, serious injury needing urgent medical attention or as they were to find out on 14th double homicide. It is only my personal opinion nothing more. It was a bad judgement call or better said Naive.

As I say just my personal opinion
MingyMoo

Edited to reword (Acted on)

This is one of my top questions. Who saw them there? Who. With all that is out there no one has said I saw the girls there.

 

[moonlessnight]

I believe it was family (Mike I think) who said that in an interview. Will try to find it. I was surprised family would offer that kind of info given the circumstances.

Did someone even say that? I don't remember reading that.

 

[tresir2012]

Did someone even say that? I don't remember reading that.

I just posted a link a few posts back here it is again.

From above article

"The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

'You don't know – a 14-year-old girl, she could have had an argument. Things like that go through your mind.

'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

'And then they'll get tired and come back tomorrow morning or they'll call. Something like that.'

However, Bridge said that his granddaughter was conscientious and he didn't believe that she would have simply lost track of time.

'If Libby said she was going to be back at three-thirty, she would have done that,' he said."

 

[tresir2012]

This is one of my top questions. Who saw them there? Who. With all that is out there no one has said I saw the girls there.

Only one of the witnesses who wished she had warned them apparently IIRC.

 

[MingyMoo]

Oh its a forget me not, spent 2+ years with a ? on this forum and wanted to make a point any picture you zoom in can look like anything such as this one which reminded me of WS? I soon after thought it in bad taste so I removed it.

MingyMoo

OMG I forgot this one as well, Yep I can see the two posts that are meant to be there behind Abby but I do actually see something else I am really finding it very difficult to un-see and now put it down to old age and vivid imagination. I am not about to highlight point or put circles around it if you see it you see it if you dont you dont however what I see is a figure to the right of the two posts on the footpath very pixulated. I have put it down to a trick on the eyes and shadows too much zooming in

MM

 

[heartgoesout]

Only one of the witnesses who wished she had warned them apparently IIRC.

You’re right! Is it strange just one person allegedly saw them?

 

[Boxer]

i h

Or a recorded greeting... is there a local church, hospital, Indiana packers switchboard, college, shop, etc, that detective would call and it would have the greeting with this voice? Pharmacy?

Hope the sheriff listened to his intuition and retraced his routines and revisited what he had done out of the ordinary in the prior year at least; checked into hotel, go to unfamiliar restaurant etc.

 

[sunshineray]

This is one of my top questions. Who saw them there? Who. With all that is out there no one has said I saw the girls there.

I'd say with a killer at large fear is probably the reason for that.

 

[sunshineray]

I believe it was family (Mike I think) who said that in an interview. Will try to find it. I was surprised family would offer that kind of info given the circumstances.

The grandfather said it in that article tresir just posted, an 18 year olid brother.

 

[FinePrint]

I will say there is no excuse that there wasn't a full LE search that evening. The runaway excuse is not justifiable. I know there was fog in the AM and that was dangerous to searchers, so they didn't have to allow the general public to search, but trained search and rescue should have been called in by 6pm on 2/13 and should have been out at first light. I suppose they have to stop at dark but can't they use gear to light the terrain? Tactical flashlights light up the local area like moonlight.

I've had outdoor jobs and rain, fog, and snow never stopped us.

I believe the family was in agreement with LE that the girls were probably fine, but that does not exonerate LE from responsibility. I don't care that it's a small town and safe. LE should know what's out there even if townspeople feel safe.

We don't know for sure the girls we not still alive at 6pm. probably they were not as LE stated, but without COD/TOD, who really knows. Could they have been saved? Who knows, but they had no chance since there was no official, professional S&R that night.

Of course there is a possibility they could have been saved. When was sunset that day do we know (I'll look it up) I think maybe a few minutes before 5pm.

So it Derrick is there at 3:15 and the family arrives soon after, that is a good hour of sunlight right there. It takes a while for it to get completely dark. LE arrived sometime after 5pm. The girls were within less than a mile from where they were dropped off. Actually I think they were like 1/2 mile from the drop off. That is not a huge area.

These are modern times, we have high powered flashlights. Sure there is some danger but who is going to be running through the woods when they are searching. You can shine a flashlight in front of you to see what the terrain is to avoid any problems.. come on!! I was in the Army and spent most of the time on field maneuvers. We never had such excuses!! And then not to return until 10 am is just insane.

Who could sleep??? If they thought the the girls might have ran away don't people have cell phones these days? In a matter of minutes you could make all the calls to those known people they may have ran away to. Maybe a call to the mom in Kentucky would eliminate that scenario. I'm sure she would be able to figure out if they were headed her way by vibes given off in recent conversations. They didn't have a car or couldn't even drive.

By 4:30 they should have had a pretty good idea something was really wrong and that they needed to get all resources out there in those woods to find those girls. Who calls their dad and asks them to pick them up and then stands him up... doesn't make any sense at all. If your planning on running away why would you bother calling him and asking to be picked up. Just simply get your ride to the trail and you can take off from there if your planning to run away! Where is common sense here....

Truly a real failure in MOO!!!

 

[sunshineray]

Of course there is a possibility they could have been saved. When was sunset that day do we know (I'll look it up) I think maybe a few minutes before 5pm.

So it Derrick is there at 3:15 and the family arrives soon after, that is a good hour of sunlight right there. It takes a while for it to get completely dark. LE arrived sometime after 5pm. The girls were within less than a mile from where they were dropped off. Actually I think they were like 1/2 mile from the drop off. That is not a huge area.

These are modern times, we have high powered flashlights. Sure there is some danger but who is going to be running through the woods when they are searching. You can shine a flashlight in front of you to see what the terrain is to avoid any problems.. come on!! I was in the Army and spent most of the time on field maneuvers. We never had such excuses!! And then not to return until 10 am is just insane.

Who could sleep??? If they thought the the girls might have ran away don't people have cell phones these days? In a matter of minutes you could make all the calls to those known people they may have ran away to. Maybe a call to the mom in Kentucky would eliminate that scenario. I'm sure she would be able to figure out if they were headed her way by vibes given off in recent conversations. They didn't have a car or couldn't even drive.

By 4:30 they should have had a pretty good idea something was really wrong and that they needed to get all resources out there in those woods to find those girls. Who calls their dad and asks them to pick them up and then stands him up... doesn't make any sense at all. If your planning on running away why would you bother calling him and asking to be picked up. Just simply get your ride to the trail and you can take off from there if your planning to run away! Where is common sense here....

Truly a real failure in MOO!!!

That's an excellent point. If the girl were planning to stay away for whatever reason, they probably would never have made that call to DG for a pick-up ride home. They would have just told Libby's Gram they did.

 

[MrBosox78]

I believe it was family (Mike I think) who said that in an interview. Will try to find it. I was surprised family would offer that kind of info given the circumstances.

The grandfather said it in that article tresir just posted, an 18 year olid brother.

We should be careful about which grandfather we're referencing, probably best to add initials.

The article quotes Dennis B., whom Liberty did not live with.

Mike P. was not quoted as saying they would've run away, etc. He knew Abby very well from all quotes he's made publicly.

Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Warm over:
Investigation of Indiana teens' murder enters 4th week; tips pour in, reward surges
Mar 6, 2017

 

[Imvp2]

This is one of my top questions. Who saw them there? Who. With all that is out there no one has said I saw the girls there.

The snapchat post puts them at the location

 

[gipsypup]

Did someone even say that? I don't remember reading that.

If my 14 year old was missing for even two hours I would be searching non stop-especially once it turned dark .It’s said the family was in agreement to stopping the search. That just really puzzles me.
Maybe the runaway scenario was part of the
“ steering LE in a different direction?” As mentioned in a post above, calling off the search that night would allow for BG and any “ helpers” to clean up or contaminate the crime scene. JMO

 

[BNA]

Of course there is a possibility they could have been saved. When was sunset that day do we know (I'll look it up) I think maybe a few minutes before 5pm.

So it Derrick is there at 3:15 and the family arrives soon after, that is a good hour of sunlight right there. It takes a while for it to get completely dark. LE arrived sometime after 5pm. The girls were within less than a mile from where they were dropped off. Actually I think they were like 1/2 mile from the drop off. That is not a huge area.

These are modern times, we have high powered flashlights. Sure there is some danger but who is going to be running through the woods when they are searching. You can shine a flashlight in front of you to see what the terrain is to avoid any problems.. come on!! I was in the Army and spent most of the time on field maneuvers. We never had such excuses!! And then not to return until 10 am is just insane.

Who could sleep??? If they thought the the girls might have ran away don't people have cell phones these days? In a matter of minutes you could make all the calls to those known people they may have ran away to. Maybe a call to the mom in Kentucky would eliminate that scenario. I'm sure she would be able to figure out if they were headed her way by vibes given off in recent conversations. They didn't have a car or couldn't even drive.

By 4:30 they should have had a pretty good idea something was really wrong and that they needed to get all resources out there in those woods to find those girls. Who calls their dad and asks them to pick them up and then stands him up... doesn't make any sense at all. If your planning on running away why would you bother calling him and asking to be picked up. Just simply get your ride to the trail and you can take off from there if your planning to run away! Where is common sense here....

Truly a real failure in MOO!!!

The more I think about it, the stranger it seems. (Maybe I should stop thinking about it?)

Because, it scares me to think that these two girls were thrown away because of something something....that their well-being was devalued because of something something.

 

[heartgoesout]

The snapchat post puts them at the location

My point is who saw them that’s not saying so. Lots of people there that day.

 

[tresir2012]

You’re right! Is it strange just one person allegedly saw them?

Yes I think it is strange no one else saw or heard them at all. This was from 1:40 to around 2:30/3.00. DG arrived at 3.11 approx and the girls were nowhere to be seen or heard by this time. So was nobody on the trails between 1:40 and 3.11 except that one person who saw BG and the girls?

 

[tresir2012]

We should be careful about which grandfather we're referencing, probably best to add initials.

The article quotes Dennis B., whom Liberty did not live with.

Mike P. was not quoted as saying they would've run away, etc. He knew Abby very well from all quotes he's made publicly.

Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

MP is actually Libby's step Grandfather not her Grandfather. But it is clear in the article that it is her maternal Grandfather who says this, but he also clarifies at the end that if Libby said she would be somewhere, then she would be there so that clearly shows her good character to be there as arranged IMO.