Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[sunshineray]

and my dog has a history of

this is what I’m talking about. One guy who saw a couple arguing under the bridge. I think we can all deduct that there were only 3 people under that bridge that day. Do we know who said this? Are police in touch with him now? “A couple arguing?” He hung around long enough to hear something and deduce it to arguing? Did one of the girls run and the other scream and fight? This has bothered me since day one. Then at the April PC LE says “you never thought we would change our strategy.” Is this who they are referring to? Did the arguing couple come forward? MOO

Didn't the other witness CE also mention seeing a couple while she was in the vicinity of the Monon Bridge?

 

[Torch Carrier]

His twin brother?

Yes we do have twin Bros locally/semi locally here... that could certainly twist things up!

 

[tresir2012]

In Libby’s/BP’s phone, and in DG’s phone, at least the fact of the call should have registered.

The fact DG turned up at 3.11 shows he had been notified to pick them up as well so that all indicates this disappearance wasn't a planned event.

 

[Torch Carrier]

I was of the same opinion however until very recently I can't help but notice there appears to be a different dynamic and way of discussing the case currently. May be I haven't participated for a while and just lurked.

MingyMoo

Ming your blue flower avatar is very nice! As is the recent discussion pulling in different points! Thanks to all who are contributing here! You inspire (and you don'the even know why, as DC said... )

 

[Charlot123]

The fact DG turned up at 3.11 shows he had been notified to pick them up as well so that all indicates this disappearance wasn't a planned event.

Yes, but here is the issue. Did anyone see him turn in at 3:11 at the pickup place? I heard about the FG, but I don’t know if he had been interviewed, or it is hearsay.

 

[sunshineray]

MOO the searchers, family and friends on 2/13/17 must have know who was there that day. Everyone had to walk in.

It was dark out, they couldn't have know everyone who had shown up to search, only the ones that crossed their path close enough to shine a light on them. It would have been very easy for a person to go unnoticed that night. Especially with no LE participating in the overnight search. JMO

 

[tresir2012]

Ming your blue flower avatar is very nice! As is the recent discussion pulling in different points! Thanks to all who are contributing here! You inspire (and you don'the even know why, as DC said... )

Yes I love forget me knots as they now always remind me of my mother. Many years ago she gave me a small antique container with "when this you see, remember me" with small painted forget me knots on the lid. So whenever I see them......

 

[TL4S]

I have never really been onboard with the retaliation/drugs/snitch idea, but I have to admit there is something that possibly points in that general direction, and it keeps bugging me. Robert Ives was the prosecutor in the 2014 and 2015 drug cases against DG. He's also the one who filed a Petition to Seal Autopsy Report for the girls on March 28, 2017. Then, as I understand it, he retired/stepped away? But at some point he said if there was ever a break in the girls' murder case, he'd come back? Is that correct? And he was back by the April PC.

Doesn't it seem like a conflict of interest for a prosecuting attorney to work a murder case, where one of the victims was the daughter of the man he once put in jail? Or is he there because there's a connection?

Or is this nothing?

 

[sunshineray]

That, and no one except for RL has been cleared, and mainly, there seem to be a lot of cousins of Libby and, as I have read yesterday, a brother of Abby, all these people are in the same DNA pool. Not suspicious of anyone in particular, merely pointing at the obvious. Many people providing the alibis to one another are relatives, so these are weak alibis. Again, not suspecting anyone, just the realities of a small town.

It was an 18 brother of Libby that her grandfather mentioned in that article. He lives in KY.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, but here is the issue. Did anyone see him turn in at 3:11 at the pickup place? I heard about the FG, but I don’t know if he had been interviewed, or it is hearsay.

His phone records would show his location, even if he wasn't seen because he made a call to Libby's phone at that time which wasn't answered.

 

[tresir2012]

I have never really been onboard with the retaliation/drugs/snitch idea, but I have to admit there is something that possibly points in that general direction, and it keeps bugging me. Robert Ives was the prosecutor in the 2015 drug case against DG. He's also the one who filed a Petition to Seal Autopsy Report for the girls on March 28, 2017. Then, as I understand it, he retired/stepped away? But at some point he said if there was ever a break in the girls' murder case, he'd come back? Is that correct? And he was back by the April PC.

Doesn't it seem like a conflict of interest for a prosecuting attorney to work a murder case, where one of the victims was the daughter of the man he once put in jail?

Or is this nothing?

Well I think a lawyer like @gitana1 could perhaps help with this. Does anyone else know the answer?

 

[Charlot123]

His phone records would show his location, even if he wasn't seen because he made a call to Libby's phone at that time which wasn't answered.

Do you remember how MP said that Libby’s phone was “pinging all over town”, and then we were explained that they have only two towers in Delphi, so the phone was pinging off either of them, and also in this case, with only two towers, triangulation is impossible? Shouldn’t it be true for all phones using the same provider in this town?

 

[tresir2012]

Do you remember how MP said that Libby’s phone was “pinging all over town”, and then we were explained that they have only two towers in Delphi, so the phone was pinging off either of them, and also in this case, with only two towers, triangulation is impossible? Shouldn’t it be true for all phones using the same provider in this town?

The two towers plus the phone make a triangle and somehow that will give a location somewhere in the triangle I believe that's how it works. MOO.

 

[PaulaDC]

It was an 18 brother of Libby that her grandfather mentioned in that article. He lives in KY.

Well he must have been local at one point because why else would Grandpa think she may head there? Interesting.

 

[sunshineray]

Logically speaking, it was not her phone. She did a factory reset of her phone, left it at home, and took BP’s phone. And this is already the first “twist”, by me. The info from her own phone is not available. Sometimes, if the phones are the same and on the same account, they might be “linked”, you can see what messages your kid gets, but I guess it was not the case in that situation.

That whole factory reset of her phone is an interesting subject. I wonder why and I'm sure LE has investigated this thoroughly by now. It's an anomaly, Libby not having her phone that day. It may not play into any of the course of actions taken that day by the girls...but then again it may hold a purpose that does. Anything done out of the ordinary could hold weight with the circumstances that followed. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

The two towers plus the phone make a triangle and somehow that will give a location somewhere in the triangle I believe that's how it works. MOO.

So why was Libby’s phone pinging all over town on the 13th and they could not locate her? Pinging or not, it should have worked for her phone.

 

[sunshineray]

BP said she left it to Libby to call her Dad and Kelsie said she wasn't dropping them off till Libby had phoned. She indicated Libby called while she was on the phone to her boyfriend as they sat at the trailhead in the car which is how they knew the drop of time quite accurately.

So KG argeed to drive them and took them to the trails before she even knew the girls had a definite ride home? That's news to me. I thought they told Libby's grandmother home that they had a ride home before they left home.

 

[tresir2012]

So why was Libby’s phone pinging all over town on the 13th and they could not locate her? Pinging or not, it should have worked for her phone.

Because LE wasn't on the case till 5.30 and BP had tried that with the phone company who would not help. By 5.30 the phone was no longer pinging. Also, sometimes the location is not exact and can be out by miles. Especially in rural areas.

 

[Charlot123]

That whole factory reset of her phone is an interesting subject. I wonder why and I'm sure LE has investigated this thoroughly by now. It's an anomaly, Libby not having her phone that day. It may not play into any of the course of actions taken that day by the girls...but then again it may hold a purpose that does. Anything done out of the ordinary could hold weight with the circumstances that followed. JMO

Yes, and if you forget the case and only think of the phones...no calls from Libby’s phone, allegedly a call from BP’s phone to DG’s phone, then DG calls BP’s phone that doesn’t answer, then silence, then they alert the PD at 5:30? And BP’s phone is pinging all around the town?

So when was the last time Libby’s own phone was active?

BTW, I think it is a tragic coincidence, but very unusual. It is unusual for the kids who are secretive at this age to take parents’ phones. Unless there was a reason. Was Libby afraid that her own cell would be traced?

 

[Charlot123]

Because LE wasn't on the case till 5.30 and BP had tried that with the phone company who would not help. By 5.30 the phone was no longer pinging. Also, sometimes the location is not exact and can be out by miles. Especially in rural areas.

Then it would be for miles for DG...