Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[susiQ]

Don't be so shy next time @susiQ.
Tell us how you really feel!

Ah @bradfordsleuth, I did and you're just pulling my leg!! I just needed to get that off my chest. It wasn't meant to offend anyone, except perhaps GH
ed:sp

 

[Ion]

I'm relatively new to this board I've browsed it before but how much weight do you guys put into the Packers Plant being a potential theory? I've posted this information but I'll rehash it for this board.


The incident in question happened several days after the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid that was a coordinated effort by both the Carroll County Sheriff's department and the FBI. The incident happened specifically at 1:10pm on Feb. 22 when the police received a report of a bomb threat having been phoned in.

The bomb threat specifically isn't all that interesting, but there was rumors at the time the the bomb threat was a means to get LE into the door. I'm not all that interested in if that is the case or not. However, roughly forty minutes later there is a interesting tweet from a "emmy award winning news reporter" that I will link below. Note the comments in the tweet. They didn't allow people to evacuate the building which is standard producer during a bomb threat.

Alexis McAdams ABC-7 on Twitter

This tweet is interesting because if it is to be believed they confiscated a pair of boots from the Packer's plant raid.

Interesting enough, the following day in the morning ( roughly 10am I believe) Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby went on live TV to speak to news reporters specifically about DNA evidence which I will link below.

DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

The Sheriff later went back to rebuke certain things from this interview interesting enough as you can find here

Sheriff clarifies reports of DNA evidence

I haven't done enough research into the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid to know if the person targeted in that raid worked at the Packers plant nor do I encourage anyone else to do such things. I do wonder what those boots are and if they are related. There are other oddities I can elaborate further on if there is interest about this Packers Plant raid that remains unsolved.

I know it's all speculative and there is nothing definitively tying the two together. Also, the Sheriff department did state that they are unrelated. However, this still doesn't really explain why they apparently took physical evidence from a place with a history of bomb threats.

Hope to hear from you guys.

 

[FinePrint]

I'm relatively new to this board I've browsed it before but how much weight do you guys put into the Packers Plant being a potential theory? I've posted this information but I'll rehash it for this board.


The incident in question happened several days after the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid that was a coordinated effort by both the Carroll County Sheriff's department and the FBI. The incident happened specifically at 1:10pm on Feb. 22 when the police received a report of a bomb threat having been phoned in.

The bomb threat specifically isn't all that interesting, but there was rumors at the time the the bomb threat was a means to get LE into the door. I'm not all that interested in if that is the case or not. However, roughly forty minutes later there is a interesting tweet from a "emmy award winning news reporter" that I will link below. Note the comments in the tweet. They didn't allow people to evacuate the building which is standard producer during a bomb threat.

Alexis McAdams ABC-7 on Twitter

This tweet is interesting because if it is to be believed they confiscated a pair of boots from the Packer's plant raid.

Interesting enough, the following day in the morning ( roughly 10am I believe) Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby went on live TV to speak to news reporters specifically about DNA evidence which I will link below.

DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

The Sheriff later went back to rebuke certain things from this interview interesting enough as you can find here

Sheriff clarifies reports of DNA evidence

I haven't done enough research into the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid to know if the person targeted in that raid worked at the Packers plant nor do I encourage anyone else to do such things. I do wonder what those boots are and if they are related. There are other oddities I can elaborate further on if there is interest about this Packers Plant raid that remains unsolved.

I know it's all speculative and there is nothing definitively tying the two together. Also, the Sheriff department did state that they are unrelated. However, this still doesn't really explain why they apparently took physical evidence from a place with a history of bomb threats.

Hope to hear from you guys.

Interesting and confusing but something I’m sure I’ll put some thought into.

Welcome aboard!!

 

[Suthrnqt]

Yeah, I have no idea how PIs work. I know they have more lead way then the general public but I think a lot depends on how much LE is willing to cooperate with them.

I also think the right PI would have to be employed. Former FBI and so on. I've looked briefly and have noticed that several PI agencies claim to work on murder cases, cold cases and so on and claim to be prior FBI agent and the likes.

Has anyone heard of a case where a PI has gotten involved and has successfully solved the case with the final outcome being a conviction?

Kelli Bordeaux


The Hunter: Searching for Kelli Bordeaux

 

[mavryk]

They have to be careful what goes out to the public. There are things that only the killer would know and I believe so more than anything here. If they get a suspect in for questioning, this is how they trip them up. By no means should they releas anything to the public that they haven’t so far. They’ve released plenty, more than a ton of cases in this forum. MOO

Having information that "only the killer would know" does not really help them trip up a suspect who is in for questioning, it helps discern which people who are giving a confession are for real (if it ever gets that far) and, also, whether notes sent to the police or FBI are coming from the actual killer or copycats.

In this instance, where we are two years away from the crime, it seems like getting the public's help to identify a potential suspect trump the "tripping up" of a suspect who they don't appear to have.

 

[mavryk]

I keep coming back to the same conclusions. This case is going to resolve when, and only when, one of two things happens: (1) the police are able to release more video and someone recognizes the guy or his voice and calls in with a tip; or (2) a DNA match with a family member.

Unfortunately, in every one of these types of cases I'm aware of (multiple victims and family members ruled out), it turns out to have been a crime of random opportunity by a stranger. The worst kind. The break usually comes randomly as well, but sometimes fortuitously (like Kevin Sweat in the case of Taylor Paschal-Placker and Skyla Jade Whittaker in Oklahoma, who was caught only after he killed his girlfriend).

 

[Nadal]

Having information that "only the killer would know" does not really help them trip up a suspect who is in for questioning,

It can if they guide them towards mentioning something only the killer knows, or if they freely offer it usually accidentally. I think that sort of thing happening is most common with family members or spouses but it has happened occassionally from what i'm aware in stranger cases like this one particularly when the perpetrator has mental problems or learning difficulties. When you actually carried the crime out i imagine it's difficult remembering what is and isn't known to the public in the middle of a stressful interview.

You are definitely right that it's mainly to confirm it is the right guy in the event of a confession however.

 

[gregjrichards]

I'm relatively new to this board I've browsed it before but how much weight do you guys put into the Packers Plant being a potential theory? I've posted this information but I'll rehash it for this board.


The incident in question happened several days after the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid that was a coordinated effort by both the Carroll County Sheriff's department and the FBI. The incident happened specifically at 1:10pm on Feb. 22 when the police received a report of a bomb threat having been phoned in.

The bomb threat specifically isn't all that interesting, but there was rumors at the time the the bomb threat was a means to get LE into the door. I'm not all that interested in if that is the case or not. However, roughly forty minutes later there is a interesting tweet from a "emmy award winning news reporter" that I will link below. Note the comments in the tweet. They didn't allow people to evacuate the building which is standard producer during a bomb threat.

Alexis McAdams ABC-7 on Twitter

This tweet is interesting because if it is to be believed they confiscated a pair of boots from the Packer's plant raid.

Interesting enough, the following day in the morning ( roughly 10am I believe) Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby went on live TV to speak to news reporters specifically about DNA evidence which I will link below.

DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

The Sheriff later went back to rebuke certain things from this interview interesting enough as you can find here

Sheriff clarifies reports of DNA evidence

I haven't done enough research into the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid to know if the person targeted in that raid worked at the Packers plant nor do I encourage anyone else to do such things. I do wonder what those boots are and if they are related. There are other oddities I can elaborate further on if there is interest about this Packers Plant raid that remains unsolved.

I know it's all speculative and there is nothing definitively tying the two together. Also, the Sheriff department did state that they are unrelated. However, this still doesn't really explain why they apparently took physical evidence from a place with a history of bomb threats.

Hope to hear from you guys.

Welcome to Websleuths @Ion Thank you for joining us and for posting on Abigail and Liberty’s case thread.

 

[FinePrint]

Kelli Bordeaux


The Hunter: Searching for Kelli Bordeaux

Oh yeah I remember that!

 

[Charlot123]

Animal hair (even without the root) can be an important source of that animal's DNA because they lick themselves and the saliva deposits DNA all over the hair. So yes, if BG had an animal, or worked with animals, and animal hair linked to BG was found at the crime scene, it could possibly be used as evidence. Even if he gets rid of the animal, most likely identical hair would be found somewhere among his belongings. It's almost impossible to get rid of.

That being said, from the article I posted yesterday with Leazenby talking about LE discussing the use of familial DNA, I really think they have BG's DNA, and enough to run a familial DNA search if they decided to. IMO, they wouldn't even discuss it if they didn't have the DNA itself.

I, too, have own reason to believe or hope that they have something workable. So it might be down to - Gedmatch’s pool is shrinking down for LE comparisons. However, what disappeared today, might be back tomorrow.

If the guy is scared to shed his DNA now, it might be quite a torture of its own. Not recycling wastes, not touching doorknobs

 

[somequestions]

I was going to write a post about how you can tell whether a person is right or left-handed by the foot they lead with when crossing a bridge. In the picture of Abby, she leads with her right foot. So Abigail Williams must be right-handed. In the video of the bridge man, it is hard to tell what foot he leads with, but he looks to the left. Does this mean he is left-handed? No. If he was left-handed though, that would help narrow down suspects since only about 11% of the population is left-handed. Confirmation bias is hard to identify sometimes. I am trying to extrapolate the smallest bit of information out of nothing.

And Abigail Williams was probably not right-handed. I think she was left-handed, at least by how she holds a volleyball.

 

[Mike Britton]

If the guy is scared to shed his DNA now, it might be quite a torture of its own. Not recycling wastes, not touching doorknobs

Imagine wondering if the feds are going through your trash. Every day. Add to that the guilt of having destroyed lives.

If BG is a spree killer, he may have been internalizing emotions until they finally expressed themselves in this horrific act. Would this aspect of his character also suggest susceptibility to guilty ruminations—especially if he must now face his own crime, this massacre, on a daily basis?

This person, whoever he is, could be contemplating a surrender and confession. Eventually he may not be able to avoid the urge to surrender and end the endless litany of suspicion and self-hate.

 

[zoricaj1]

Today was not the day but i am hopeful tomorrow will be the day **fingers crossed**


Rest In Peace Abby&Libby

 

[PaulaDC]

To receive notices of posts on this thread....... I think one of about a half dozen locals to the area did the crime, but I have been wrong lots of times.

Just go to your profile. You can see where you've been. Easy Peasy. MOO

 

[heartgoesout]

To receive notices of posts on this thread....... I think one of about a half dozen locals to the area did the crime, but I have been wrong lots of times.

On the top right on the thread click watch thread. Then you don't have to mark your spot. : )

 

[heartgoesout]

So a satellite picture of the Monon Bridge at 12:58pm was purchased? Was that the only time available to purchase? I am behind but confused on why this specific time?

 

[Charlot123]

I don't suspect any family member at all period. Just curious that the new BG pic didn't prompt more MSM with them

It is illogical to suspect the family members. First, we’d recognize our own in football gear, wrapped in LL Bean’s extreme temperatures parka, or in Zauli masks. We instantly recognize their posture, their mannerisms. So no way could anyone from either family limp around in a jacket and a scarf and whatnot, and not be spotted by the girls. (Unless this was the relative for one of them whom both never met).

Only the “never met” relative could not prompt a greeting, “hi, uncle... what are you ...”. The phone was registering at that time.

So the family is almost out of question because they did not recognize the person.

Now, could the perp. be an unknown, unrecognizable, long unseen, blood relative, sharing nonetheless enough genome with one of the girls, to make DNA investigation very complicated? Yes, but it has to be a very, very close one. And the one they did not know. And I think that even in this case, the LE would sort things out.

 

[FinePrint]

So a satellite picture of the Monon Bridge at 12:58pm was purchased? Was that the only time available to purchase? I am behind but confused on why this specific time?

Yes that was the only time available from this particular satellite group. I’ve been searching for a long time to find one of these satellite groups with known high quality images. The one GH purchased was not of high strength but it was worth the chance to see if there was something that could be made out.

I still have hopes that there is, somewhere a satellite image of that day at about 2 to 3pm that day of high quality, even if it comes from a satellite owned in another country. That is something I keep working through. Maybe I’ll get lucky, I hope!

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I think they arrested the guy they suspected - assumed - did the murders - for child rape. But he didn't do the murders. They assumed he matched the video and made the first sketch of him, IMO. He may or may not have been on or near the trails on 2/13/17.

Are you just speculating or commenting on something that actually happened? It sounds so specific, that’s why I’m asking.

 

[Charlot123]

I've wondered that. Or they've silenced themselves rather than turn him in.

Your “silence themselves” indicates parents, not wife or kids. (Parents can easily kill themselves for their child. A wife for a husband? Only in Greek drama Alcestis. Kids for the father? Some Japanese stories, maybe).

Our POIs are probably different. However, in either case, I suspect the perpetrator is a perfect coward. So, without the parents, the POI might become much more pliable and scared.

(However, I am thinking about a different set of parents/kid, not my original POI)