Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[PaulaDC]

I, too, have own reason to believe or hope that they have something workable. So it might be down to - Gedmatch’s pool is shrinking down for LE comparisons. However, what disappeared today, might be back tomorrow.

If the guy is scared to shed his DNA now, it might be quite a torture of its own. Not recycling wastes, not touching doorknobs

I opted in on GEDmatch last night. I felt obligated to victims everywhere. If someone related to me does such a heinous crime they deserve to be caught. I'm in no way connected to this case. I hope I'm never connected to any case.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm relatively new to this board I've browsed it before but how much weight do you guys put into the Packers Plant being a potential theory? I've posted this information but I'll rehash it for this board.


The incident in question happened several days after the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid that was a coordinated effort by both the Carroll County Sheriff's department and the FBI. The incident happened specifically at 1:10pm on Feb. 22 when the police received a report of a bomb threat having been phoned in.

The bomb threat specifically isn't all that interesting, but there was rumors at the time the the bomb threat was a means to get LE into the door. I'm not all that interested in if that is the case or not. However, roughly forty minutes later there is a interesting tweet from a "emmy award winning news reporter" that I will link below. Note the comments in the tweet. They didn't allow people to evacuate the building which is standard producer during a bomb threat.

Alexis McAdams ABC-7 on Twitter

This tweet is interesting because if it is to be believed they confiscated a pair of boots from the Packer's plant raid.

Interesting enough, the following day in the morning ( roughly 10am I believe) Carroll Sheriff Tobe Leazenby went on live TV to speak to news reporters specifically about DNA evidence which I will link below.

DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

The Sheriff later went back to rebuke certain things from this interview interesting enough as you can find here

Sheriff clarifies reports of DNA evidence

I haven't done enough research into the Bicycle Bridge Rd raid to know if the person targeted in that raid worked at the Packers plant nor do I encourage anyone else to do such things. I do wonder what those boots are and if they are related. There are other oddities I can elaborate further on if there is interest about this Packers Plant raid that remains unsolved.

I know it's all speculative and there is nothing definitively tying the two together. Also, the Sheriff department did state that they are unrelated. However, this still doesn't really explain why they apparently took physical evidence from a place with a history of bomb threats.

Hope to hear from you guys.

Welcome Ion!
This is interesting. I knew about the boots and the bomb threat search but never knew they didn’t allow people to leave while they checked the plant out. Kinda unheard of for a bomb threat I would think.

 

[PaulaDC]

Are you just speculating or commenting on something that actually happened? It sounds so specific, that’s why I’m asking.

Sounds like CE.

 

[tnhybrid]

Hey everyone, I'm new to this case having seen something on Twitter about KG asking for folks to unlock their profiles on GEDMatch, which I did recently. I'm an experienced sleuther on some other cases, though, and one thing really stands out to me about BG: He's not carrying a bag, or even a waist pack or anything. If this were someone who set out to assault or kill someone that day, wouldn't he have gloves, rope and other tools used to keep victims quiet and/or compliant? I'd assume he carried a gun underneath the jacket or in a pants pocket, but to me how little prepared he looks really stands out.

I'm afraid I'm a believer in SA as a motive. Wonder if this is a situation in which perp has committed a crime over state lines and the databases haven't been matched up. I notice Delphi isn't too far from Chicago.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’m starting to think the key right now is in the info from very early in the investigation....pre-July 2017 when the first sketch came out. We know LE has dismissed that sketch, and they have pretty much admitted to being on the wrong path until April of this year. It’s like everything from the first sketch to April 2019 is garbage. They have reverted to a sketch drawn days after the murders and are desperately hoping someone recalls a car from two and a half years ago.
I may have to go back and look at the really early stuff. I might have to take notes this time!

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Hi PaulaDC,

I hope you never are too!
It’s heartbreaking and gut wrenching when you are.
JMO

~RIP M+J

I opted in on GEDmatch last night. I felt obligated to victims everywhere. If someone related to me does such a heinous crime they deserve to be caught. I'm in no way connected to this case. I hope I'm never connected to any case.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I recall from the very early threads here that he was introduced as a type of Crime Scene Reconstruction Specialist.
Please don't ask me to find the post.....

I will leave this as JMO

ETA
A link from Tricia introducing GH.

Crime Scene Animation by Websleuths Member grayhuze

And I’m a licensed PI but I don’t have a YT account. He has a following. People believe him. I don’t find him entirely convincing. There’s more out there that he is turning a blind eye to. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I was going to write a post about how you can tell whether a person is right or left-handed by the foot they lead with when crossing a bridge. In the picture of Abby, she leads with her right foot. So Abigail Williams must be right-handed. In the video of the bridge man, it is hard to tell what foot he leads with, but he looks to the left. Does this mean he is left-handed? No. If he was left-handed though, that would help narrow down suspects since only about 11% of the population is left-handed. Confirmation bias is hard to identify sometimes. I am trying to extrapolate the smallest bit of information out of nothing.

And Abigail Williams was probably not right-handed. I think she was left-handed, at least by how she holds a volleyball.

Abby could be ambidextrous, right-handed in writing and left-handed in sports. Some lefties are ambidextrous. Lefties are complicated.

 

[Charlot123]

Imagine wondering if the feds are going through your trash. Every day. Add to that the guilt of having destroyed lives.

If BG is a spree killer, he may have been internalizing emotions until they finally expressed themselves in this horrific act. Would this aspect of his character also suggest susceptibility to guilty ruminations—especially if he must now face his own crime, this massacre, on a daily basis?

This person, whoever he is, could be contemplating a surrender and confession. Eventually he may not be able to avoid the urge to surrender and end the endless litany of suspicion and self-hate.

Human void around him. People pretending not to notice him. I think this is the worst.

I think that surrender and confession is the way to go. He can not bring the girls back to their families, but at least he can give them the gift of closure.

 

[Charlot123]

I opted in on GEDmatch last night. I felt obligated to victims everywhere. If someone related to me does such a heinous crime they deserve to be caught. I'm in no way connected to this case. I hope I'm never connected to any case.

Wonderful, Paula!

And a reminder. If someone is afraid of opting in, or even joining Germatch, for other reasons, but wants to help victims and has older relatives, their DNAs would work out, too.

 

[Charlot123]

Hey everyone, I'm new to this case having seen something on Twitter about KG asking for folks to unlock their profiles on GEDMatch, which I did recently. I'm an experienced sleuther on some other cases, though, and one thing really stands out to me about BG: He's not carrying a bag, or even a waist pack or anything. If this were someone who set out to assault or kill someone that day, wouldn't he have gloves, rope and other tools used to keep victims quiet and/or compliant? I'd assume he carried a gun underneath the jacket or in a pants pocket, but to me how little prepared he looks really stands out.

I'm afraid I'm a believer in SA as a motive. Wonder if this is a situation in which perp has committed a crime over state lines and the databases haven't been matched up. I notice Delphi isn't too far from Chicago.

He might be wearing a backpack, the photo is grainy.

 

[TheVisual]

Abby could be ambidextrous, right-handed in writing and left-handed in sports. Some lefties are ambidextrous. Lefties are complicated.

If you're considering pictures, wouldn't it depend on how they were taken? Forward facing camera or over the shoulder. It certainly would change things(left, right).

 

[gregjrichards]

Imagine wondering if the feds are going through your trash. Every day. Add to that the guilt of having destroyed lives.

If BG is a spree killer, he may have been internalizing emotions until they finally expressed themselves in this horrific act. Would this aspect of his character also suggest susceptibility to guilty ruminations—especially if he must now face his own crime, this massacre, on a daily basis?

This person, whoever he is, could be contemplating a surrender and confession. Eventually he may not be able to avoid the urge to surrender and end the endless litany of suspicion and self-hate.

He would need a conscience to do what you are suggesting and I don’t think this psychopath possesses one. He might confess on his deathbed but I think there is virtually no chance of him surrendering or confessing. In my opinion monster’s only concern is not ending up in jail.

This coward could not care less about taking the girl’s lives or what their families are going through every agonising minute of every day. I sincerely hope that law enforcement saying “you made mistakes” is a constant concern for him and his front door is kicked down by them one day soon.

 

[distracted]

I never saw that either, but that confirms my suspicions - they know who did it, they just can't prove without a shadow of a doubt that it was the specific individual who did it and not a male relative.

It also makes the repeated statements by LE that they are ruling people out, take on new significance - in other words, we don't know who it is but we know who it isn't.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Abby could be ambidextrous, right-handed in writing and left-handed in sports. Some lefties are ambidextrous. Lefties are complicated.

.....what are you talking about??? Following the thought process for this post is complicated, regardless of what hand you use.

 

[distracted]

I know it seems like 75% of Delphi is related, but the truth is, even if they have done a familial DNA search on BG's DNA, it might not lead them straight to Delphi. Maybe his family is dispersed all over the country, or he isn't even a native to Indiana, or he has a relatively small lineage and nobody's done a genmatch type ancestry test. My friend's brother told me he did an Ancestry DNA test and it came back with hardly any matches closer than 4th or 5th cousins.

I don't know much about familial DNA testing. Here's the most recent article I could find listing the states that have used it to solve cold cases. I saw an article from 2017 that listed states that use it, and Indiana wasn't one of them then. I need to keep looking for that one.

Familial DNA testing puts elusive killers behind bars. But only 12 states use it.

Arizona joined 11 other states — California, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming — that have solved cold cases using familial DNA matching. Illinois and Louisiana are currently pondering whether to use the technique.

And here's something else. Still 1 year old:

Sign the Petition

Maybe they should follow the lead of LE investigating the Golden State Killer by following them around, picking up their discarded trash. I'm only half joking.

LE found a familial match and, by process of elimination, narrowed it to a few and then to the killer.

 

[cody22]

Maybe they should follow the lead of LE investigating the Golden State Killer by following them around, picking up their discarded trash. I'm only half joking.

LE found a familial match and, by process of elimination, narrowed it to a few and then to the killer.

I have came to believe that the rumors of the DNA being contaminated by the search party or LE are possibly true....They can eliminate suspects with the DNA but, what DNA they have, would not be accepted as evidence of guilt in a court of law......moo

 

[BNA]

He would need a conscience to do what you are suggesting and I don’t think this psychopath possesses one. He might confess on his deathbed but I think there is virtually no chance of him surrendering or confessing. In my opinion monster’s only concern is not ending up in jail.

This coward could not care less about taking the girl’s lives or what their families are going through every agonising minute of every day. I sincerely hope that law enforcement saying “you made mistakes” is a constant concern for him and his front door is kicked down by them one day soon.

Ahh, yes.

But...

Supt. Carter believes he has a bit of a conscience. And, if we stipulate to this being a scripted presentation, then it is entirely possible that LE does not believe they are dealing with a psychopath.

 

[moonlessnight]

It's specific. Sorry it's for child molestation, not rape. May as well be, though. I can't say they made the OBG sketch intentionally to match this guy, but I believe it is possible, whether or not he was at the trails that day. He was the subject of a sting, so they wanted to get him. MOO

https://www.investigationdiscovery....embles-suspect-in-delphi-snapchat-murder-case

Are you just speculating or commenting on something that actually happened? It sounds so specific, that’s why I’m asking.

 

[distracted]

Ahh, yes.

But...

Supt. Carter believes he has a bit of a conscience. And, if we stipulate to this being a scripted presentation, then it is entirely possible that LE does not believe they are dealing with a psychopath.

About that scripted presentation, was Carter speaking to the killer directly when he brought "The Shack" into the discussion? Or, was he speaking to the conscience of someone who knows or suspects who the killer is?

Both are rhetorical questions but it does make me wonder whose conscience was being targeted during that presser. I personally do not think that someone who has a conscience could commit this heinous crime and put the family through the past 2 1/2 years of hell.

That said, I, too, appeal to the conscience of anyone involved to do the right thing and come forward.