Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[Ozoner]

Omg I could’ve gone my whole life without reading this post.

Yes, it's disturbing. The people Bailey talked to could see the bag moving, but apparently that didn't set off any alarm bells.

 

[margarita25]

Yes, it's disturbing. The people Bailey talked to could see the bag moving, but apparently that didn't set off any alarm bells.

(Uggggggghhhhh)

 

[MJPeony]

This is another reason I do not think the 2nd sketch is a good resemblance of the killer and may not even be the killer. I think the man on the bridge was wearing some type of hat. This is what I see in the video. Yet the man in the sketch is not wearing a hat. And I do not think the killer took the hat off and walked around with it in his hands after the crime.

Genuine question no snark intended: for those that believe the new sketch is not the killer, are you saying LE has purposefully lied to the public?

 

[margarita25]

Genuine question no snark intended: for those that believe the new sketch is not the killer, are you saying LE has purposefully lied to the public?

I’ll answer bc I don’t think the new sketch is accurate.

No I don’t think LE is purposely lying to the public. My guess is that they’re misguided by someone unintentionally, moo.

 

[cody22]

Genuine question no snark intended: for those that believe the new sketch is not the killer, are you saying LE has purposefully lied to the public?

No. I think the composite first sketch made BG look too old and the cap/headgear is wrong ( if it even existed at all).... If this case is ever solved, I think BG will look like a mixture of the two sketches.....moo

 

[taximama24]

This is another reason I do not think the 2nd sketch is a good resemblance of the killer and may not even be the killer. I think the man on the bridge was wearing some type of hat. This is what I see in the video. Yet the man in the sketch is not wearing a hat. And I do not think the killer took the hat off and walked around with it in his hands after the crime.

You make a great point, I hadn't really considered much about the hat in the video (LE says he is wearing a hat and a hoodie) and the lack of hat in the sketch. The second sketch we know for a fact was drawn 4 days after the murders and it was from one witness who said she saw something she felt needed to be reported. Whatever that something was we know wasn't a solid enough connection to the murders as it wasn't released for 26 months, but at the time it was released, LE then said with certainty that person was responsible for the murders. But clearly he did not have that hat on when the witness who sat for the sketch saw him. Was that the item LE went back and looked for and found on the bridge on Feb 23? Is the hat where they have the presumed touch DNA from?

 

[margarita25]

Can anyone recall a case where they had two totally different sketches? I mean, like “day and night” different? And if so, how did that turn out I wonder?

Maybe both sketches are wrong. Sometimes they’re a dead ringer.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm Is the hat where they have the presumed touch DNA from?

LE has not clarified that it’s touch DNA they have.

Also, early on, LE told us to “forget about the hat”, so this to me proves it’s existence, at least according to their assessment. (I also very clearly see a hat, moo).

I think they may have a hair, moo.

ETA: @taximama24, I realize you used the word “presumed” as to the touch DNA, but I don’t think we can presume that at this point, moo.

 

[taximama24]

If you search J. Kyle Keener with monon high bridge in google, two pictures come up, one from his twitter and one from the pharos tribune. One has clearly been brightened though because they were obviously taken within moments of each other. I think the hat BG was wearing is one of those same hats, the camo baseball hat is clearly doing its job very well, in that we cannot distinguish if BG is wearing a hat or if its his hair. There are other pictures in google for this case, one is a man walking his little white dog at the end of the bridge where flowers are placed for the girls, he also has this hat on. The interviews right after the murders with the property owner show him wearing the same hat. All three of these guys are different ages. My guess is the camo baseball hat is a staple in a Delphi man's wardrobe.

 

[Ozoner]

No. I think the composite first sketch made BG look too old and the cap/headgear is wrong ( if it even existed at all).... If this case is ever solved, I think BG will look like a mixture of the two sketches.....moo

LE has said that the sketches are of two different people. The person in the original sketch has been cleared of involvement.

 

[MingyMoo]

BBM
No offense Brad, and someone probably has already said something similar but respectfully just in case no one has mentioned this - life is a different experience for females than it is for males. I think most women and girls do have their personal safety in the back of their mind most of the time. It is likely what triggered Libby to film him in the first place. They did perhaps think there was safety in numbers and that was not the case sadly. I think being frightened by an odd man out in a secluded woods doesn't defy logic at all for women. JMO

Where as I just think Libby saw something/someone out of place or unusual and filmed. What that something or who that person is or why the action of filming was triggered to me at least remains a mystery.

MingyMoo

 

[Charlot123]

Great explanation. I agree, sure they have DNA, but do they have the killer's DNA?

My guess is they do not have the killer's DNA, we would know by now. I think the killer may have done certain things to destroy DNA after the murders.

JMO

Now here the situation when DNA investigation will be difficult. Imagine -

They have destroyed DNA, but incompletely. But the DNA that is left is 50% match with one of the victims (I am not speaking about this case, just theoretically). Supposedly this person even should not be there, doesn’t live there, but how difficult would it be to guess analyzing the DNAs mixture, who is who!

 

[Charlot123]

This is what I wanted to mention yesterday but ran out of time on the post.

I’m not sure if this is relevant here at all, but Cheryl’s step sister, @mocity, said in Cheryl’s and Andy’s thread that HPD said they wouldn’t pursue Parabon until all other leads had been exhausted . The sad and crazy thing about this is that they said this with their case being cold for 28 years!! They said they’re still looking at other cold cases! In 2017, the detective on their case said they were looking at pursuing this, but it’s been over 2 years and nothing! Their families have been getting the run around!!

(ETA: O/T, I’ve got a very important announcement for anyone who needs a smile this morning:
Dog befriends baby giraffe after abandoned in South Africa )

Parabon is expensive, but there should be competitive genealogists, too.

 

[MingyMoo]

Can anyone recall a case where they had two totally different sketches? I mean, like “day and night” different? And if so, how did that turn out I wonder?

Maybe both sketches are wrong. Sometimes they’re a dead ringer.

Yep here is one and I am serious. Madeliene McCann 2007 description from possible witness of perpertrator.

Turned into this

 

[Charlot123]

Can anyone recall a case where they had two totally different sketches? I mean, like “day and night” different? And if so, how did that turn out I wonder?

Maybe both sketches are wrong. Sometimes they’re a dead ringer.

And neither of them looks like the BG.

The first one is someone very artistically depicting “a very average man”.

The second one looks nothing like the BG to me. First, if I could take a guess, I’d think BG would be on a darker side, not a Germanic young man from the picture. The chin looks slightly jutting forward, but not long, either. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Genuine question no snark intended: for those that believe the new sketch is not the killer, are you saying LE has purposefully lied to the public?

I wonder if he had no choice but to pull out the second sketch because the first one has been cleared?

I am still doubting the “first sketch’s alibi”, and I can see the second one looks nothing like BG, but since the alibi stands, maybe LE had to look at the other sketch?

I mean, we don’t know who killed the girls, but the second sketch doesn’t look like BG. This is what I see.

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if he had no choice but to pull out the second sketch because the first one has been cleared?

I am still doubting the “first sketch’s alibi”, and I can see the second one looks nothing like BG, but since the alibi stands, maybe LE had to look at the other sketch?

I mean, we don’t know who killed the girls, but the second sketch doesn’t look like BG. This is what I see.

Well, technically the first sketch hasn’t been cleared. I hear what you’re saying.

Did anyone ever listen to the podcast with James and Maureen to see if they mention the RSO being BG sketch1?

 

[MingyMoo]

And neither of them looks like the BG.

The first one is someone very artistically depicting “a very average man”.

The second one looks nothing like the BG to me. First, if I could take a guess, I’d think BG would be on a darker side, not a Germanic young man from the picture. The chin looks slightly jutting forward, but not long, either. MOO.

I have always thought the video were of a younger person and when I saw the first sketch/picture/drawing composite it never rang true to me. I dont know why. From the video I always saw someone younger. Thats just me and I don't know why.

MingMoo

 

[Charlot123]

I have always thought the video were of a younger person and when I saw the first sketch/picture/drawing composite it never rang true to me. I dont know why. From the video I always saw someone younger. Thats just me and I don't know why.

MingMoo

OK it is hard to tell because he is far away. But did he look like NBG sketch?

 

[Charlot123]

Well, technically the first sketch hasn’t been cleared. I hear what you’re saying.

Did anyone ever listen to the podcast with James and Maureen to see if they mention the RSO being BG sketch1?

No.

But I can say this - I have heard many speeches by DC, sometimes he is emotional, and during one, he is amazingly practical. But nowhere does he look so theatrical. He’s overdoing it. You’d think it is not PC but Marc Anthony’s speech from Shakespeare. It looks and sounds strange.