Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[JnRyan]

Or, a thought here is that even IF BG2 was wearing a hat, they may have learned from the first sketch that perhaps people were focusing too much on the hat. They want people to focus on the facial features, not the hat, so maybe, again a very big IF he was wearing a hat they purposely did not include it this time. Just a thought.

Yes, I wonder about that. They put a hat on the 1st sketch, but tell the public not to focus on the hat. Then why even put a hat on the person in the sketch? You may have a point as to why they left it off this time.

 

[tresir2012]

BBM—I apologize if this was already discussed and I missed it, but can someone please explain this? Is DC visiting KG at school to check up on her? Does KG have an internship with ISP (as I believe an internship was mentioned by a previous poster)?

She is at university. (Ball State I think but not positive.) But it seems she has been offered an internship. Don't know the details.

 

[margarita25]

The second sketch we know for a fact was drawn 4 days after the murders and it was from one witness who said she saw something she felt needed to be reported. Rsbm

Wait, do we know it’s a she?

Maybe I’m having a brain fart but I’m not recalling LE mentioning anything about the witness specifically? Did I miss this (or forget?)? Do you have a quote for all this? Tia.

 

[margarita25]

LE has never said they definitely have touch DNA. However, in one interview, the lead investigator, ISP 1st Sgt Holeman, when asked if they have DNA gives a very coy response. He says almost every crime scene has DNA. Then he says 'touch DNA' is very powerful evidence. While he doesn't say they have touch DNA, I wonder why he would even bring that up. It's like he is inferring they have touch DNA, but stops short of confirming they have DNA. In fact, even though in an earlier interview at CrimeCon where confirmed they have DNA, in the 'touch DNA' interview he stops short of saying they have ANY DNA.

Hi JnRyan,

(Ps I enjoy all your posts here. )

Can you possibly help please find the link(s) for this? I went searching but couldn’t find what you were referencing above. Thank you. )

 

[Charlot123]

Personally why does anyone care about the hat. The as*ho*e wouldn't be wearing it again in public so it's of no concern for I.D.ing him. Moo

Because if there is anything distinctive about it, someone might remember uncle X having such a hat, but not wearing it recently

 

[Charlot123]

If this killer has a hat on, it's got this triangular thing going on. I don't know what it is. Flaps, to me, are no good, what looks like a possible flap on the right is way back too far, IMO

Download a picture of this killer, zoom in, what may, or may not be, a hat, has a roundish black spot directly above his nose, right between his eyes, and a triangular shape going rearward from that.....I think the fool has a fox hat on his head, if anything.

carry on!

spot on. I think it is just a central part in the form of a wedge, but may be a fox, of course, or any fur inset

 

[Charlot123]

If this killer is wearing a one of a kind home made hat out of a fox that would be an excellent lead.....all speculation on the hat, if indeed, there even is one on this guys head.

it would be great. And while anyone can wear a fur hat, I wonder if the person is balding. A think fur hat... to overcompensate?

 

[JnRyan]

Hi JnRyan,

(Ps I enjoy all your posts here. )

Can you possibly help please find the link(s) for this? I went searching but couldn’t find what you were referencing above. Thank you. )

It's getting harder and harder to find because I forget it is part of news article.
Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence
The full video of the interview is at the bottom of the article. About 15:00 into the interview.

 

[TL4S]

Wow! It seems KY is one of the few states that did not have a statute of limitations on rape. In the 1990's LE was trying to find a connection between the rapes committed by the East Area Rapist in northern CA and the murders committed later in the Los Angeles area by the Original Night Stalker. One of the problems LE ran into was that many of the rape kits had been destroyed and one reason given was that the rapes were over the 10 year statute of limitations.

They must think after 10 years the rape victim has so easily discarded the event? It's terrible. They shouldn't ever get rid of them!

 

[margarita25]

I think some of you may find the Image thread of interest, if you haven’t seen it:

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

ETA: I see it’s no longer open for discussion, but maybe worth at least a glance for anyone who missed it.

 

[JnRyan]

Hi JnRyan,

(Ps I enjoy all your posts here. )

Can you possibly help please find the link(s) for this? I went searching but couldn’t find what you were referencing above. Thank you. )

With respect to the interview with 1st Sgt Holeman at 2018 CrimeCon - about a year after that interview above - he states at the 16:00 to 16:30 mark in the video that they will neither confirm nor deny they have DNA. That is in response to the moderator, Ashleigh Banfield's question about using DNA to do a genetic profile. I would post a link, but the only place I can find the full CrimeCon presentation is on Reddit.

 

[margarita25]

Thanks @JnRyan for the link.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence
AUGUST 14, 2017, BY ALEXIS MCADAMS

• Watch the full interview with Sgt. Holeman / Full video of interview at the bottom of the article

Delphi police discuss latest information in murder of teen girls

—-

Some additional highlights for review:

“Sgt. Holeman tells us investigators have more audio from Libby’s phone, which was found with the girls at the crime scene.

“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.

Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month.”

 

[pixiepixel]

Could the whole new twist be something as simple as: He gagged them and simply tied them up to a tree possibly with no clothing....and they died of hypothermia overnight?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think LE has stated before that the whole thing happened really quickly. Which IMO implies that he killed them before he left the scene.

 

[MJPeony]

I thought LE had explained that they were misled? So that they believe the young sketch guy or whoever gave them the old sketch guy misled them? They are caught between witnesses describing different people. The video is not good enough to determine which is more accurate.

I think that LE coming out in April to post this new sketch, and to say that it is the face to the body of the man on the bridge in the video, and to say he is the killer, would not have happened unless they were confident.

It would be pretty reckless IMO, and embarrassing to them, to come out with this kind of change 2 years in, unless they were confident. It risks losing credibility of the police department IMO.

I think when they say new sketch is BG then it is. It’s probably not an exact rendition, but they are certain now that this draw-up given by the witness is the guy they are looking for. And they think the drawing is as close as they’ve got to visually describing him by a witness.

Of course.... I must leave open the possibility that LE is just doing a hail Mary and has no idea who BG is, and is just using this new sketch bc the first one didn’t get them the right info. But I don’t think that’s the case.

MOO.

 

[Boxer]

I think that LE coming out in April to post this new sketch, and to say that it is the face to the body of the man on the bridge in the video, and to say he is the killer, would not have happened unless they were confident.

It would be pretty reckless IMO, and embarrassing to them, to come out with this kind of change 2 years in, unless they were confident. It risks losing credibility of the police department IMO.

I think when they say new sketch is BG then it is. It’s probably not an exact rendition, but they are certain now that this draw-up given by the witness is the guy they are looking for. And they think the drawing is as close as they’ve got to visually describing him by a witness.

Of course.... I must leave open the possibility that LE is just doing a hail Mary and has no idea who BG is, and is just using this new sketch bc the first one didn’t get them the right info. But I don’t think that’s the case.

MOO.

The second sketch implies that someone saw the killer, but the police did not think the person seen by the witness was the killer.

Maybe police thought the killer was older from the video.
They had Libby's phone right away as they said they first needed expert extraction and handling to get the imagery into a useful state.
The first image of BG was released Feb. 15, 2017 just about 24 hours after discovery the girls on Feb.14.
Feb 15 was apparently the same day the police artist sketch was being drawn with a witness.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Also, early on, LE told us to “forget about the hat”, so this to me proves it’s existence, at least according to their assessment. (I also very clearly see a hat, moo).

And this is why:

Five months into the investigation ISP released the sketch of OBG. “In the sketch, shown below, detectives say the man’s hat was changed to make his facial features more recognizable.

Delphi Murders: The investigation two years later

 

[tresir2012]

LE never said they were misled.

No they didn't not in so many words. A different investigative strategy, a change in direction. This is part of what they said below:

"During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi. Currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than its true age.

Directly to the killer who may be in this room. We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know. And one day you will."

 

[margarita25]

And this is why:

Five months into the investigation ISP released the sketch of OBG. “In the sketch, shown below, detectives say the man’s hat was changed to make his facial features more recognizable.

Delphi Murders: The investigation two years later

You are right! I think I forgot about that!! Well done, JudgeJudi. Great point!!

Full quote:

Delphi Murders: The investigation two years later
Posted: Feb 12, 2019
Updated: Feb 13, 2019


The Sketch

“Five months into the investigation, Indiana State Police released a sketch and description of a suspect.

The composite sketch was created after police said they received new information from witnesses who were in the area at the time Libby and Abby went missing.

In the sketch, shown below, detectives say the man’s hat was changed to make his facial features more recognizable.”

 

[JudgeJudi]

For the longest time I kept wondering why LE was being so coy with the question, 'Do you have the killer's DNA?'. Then it dawned on me. They have DNA, but just aren't sure if it belongs to the killer.

Published Aug 14, 2017

Holeman said, "The question is: Do we have DNA? Yea, we have DNA. We're just still working on determining what kind of DNA. Is it the victims? Is it the known family members or is it our suspect?"

He said detectives test and compare the DNA almost daily.

"We're still working on that," Holeman said. "We can't say, 'Do we have the suspect's DNA or don't we?' We have plenty of DNA, and we have plenty of testing to do, and it takes a lot of time."

Police open up about evidence 6 months after Delphi double homicide

From my transcript of Gray Hughes’ interview with Mike and Becky:

BP: … An FBI agent came out here. They only have one FBI agent that does everybody’s so it’s done consistently and he has – he took all of our whole family, yeah.

MP: They have a single investigator doing all DNA, you know, samples from everybody, whoever they deem that they needed to get DNA from.

 

[Spartygirl]

I think that LE coming out in April to post this new sketch, and to say that it is the face to the body of the man on the bridge in the video, and to say he is the killer, would not have happened unless they were confident.

It would be pretty reckless IMO, and embarrassing to them, to come out with this kind of change 2 years in, unless they were confident. It risks losing credibility of the police department IMO.

I think when they say new sketch is BG then it is. It’s probably not an exact rendition, but they are certain now that this draw-up given by the witness is the guy they are looking for. And they think the drawing is as close as they’ve got to visually describing him by a witness.

Of course.... I must leave open the possibility that LE is just doing a hail Mary and has no idea who BG is, and is just using this new sketch bc the first one didn’t get them the right info. But I don’t think that’s the case.

MOO.

KG keeps tweeting this and she just did again on Friday, NOV 22nd- Something to think about because, honestly, having Libby's video pics and then the 2 different sketches has been driving me crazy !!!!
Following
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·Nov 22
I CANNOT say this enough. A sketch IS NOT an image. The person who killed #abbyandlibby does not look identical to either sketch but will likely have characteristics from both. He may lean more towards #2 but please don’t completely forget #1