Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

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Inthedetails said:
The mention of Valentine's Day - and the day off from public school - makes me think more and more that this was an arranged meeting between an adult man (who likely portrayed himself younger online) and one of the girls.

Perhaps he thought he was meeting one of the girls, but she brought along her friend for safety. I'm assuming she thought it would be a nice daytime date for a walk in the park and a chance to meet in person someone she met online (my assumption) - she might have been expecting a sweet Valentine encounter. But he had nefarious plans for her, perhaps to abduct her.

With two girls instead of one, including one girl who was willing to record him and fight back, things went, well, "down the hill."

I never really considered Valentine's Day as a role in the crime and am surprised after all this time, it now pops out at me. Of course, I realize I'm using it to fit the scenario of what I think happened.

jmo
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Great theory, When I very first heard of this case I definitely thought the girls were meeting up with a catfish they met on an app. Then my theories changed, and they still do. I feel like this guy could be a catfish tho. My niece who is 13 would talk to random boys on apps (I would lecture her like crazy about it, too much stranger danger) and after awhile she’d loose the password to the app then delete the app itself and go on to the next one, and it wasn’t just social networking apps either, it would be like in chat on the games too. She and a friend left her house one day to the park to meet up with a “boy” she met on I think “kik” and when me and her uncle found her this “boy” was MUCH MUCH older than 14, he looked like he was in his 20’s! He ran as soon as we pulled up to the park and started screaming at her. Her dad took her phone away and grounded her. What I’m getting at is the “boy” she met up with said he was 14, background check after sleuthing this fool showed he was 23 with no prior charges, convictions, tickets.

so a catfish wouldn’t be too far fetched IMO. I’m sure LE checked the cloud or drive for certain apps, but after an app is deleted or uninstalled it can wipe everything off it like even chat history.

I hope LE looks into this possibility some more.

all jmo speculation
 
Charlot123 said:
This is a great idea, but then, a SA?

The problem is, I still don’t know if it was a SA or a motivated killing. I hope LE knows. Valentine day definitely turns it into a SA.
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I think BG's intention was SA, but not sure it was completed or if things got out of hand with the girls resisting and it went straight to murder. But I don't rule SA out.

jmo
 
Hate to revisit the same 'ol argument again and again, but I've been pretty 50/50 re: whether LE has DNA of perpetrator or not. I am currently of the theory that LE does not have DNA of the suspect for the following reason, but I'd love for someone to debunk my theory with facts:

I believe that if LE had DNA, they'd be able to release more from the crime in order to illicit more tips. Given a video, audio and DNA of a suspect at the crime, I would assume it would be fairly difficult for a defense team to argue it was not their client responsible for the crime, no? So why the need for keeping so many details so secret? I'm assuming it's because they don't have the "smoking gun" of the suspect's DNA at the scene.

This is totally armchair legal team, obviously. I have no idea what I'm talking about in any real sense of the inner workings of a murder case. I'd like to clarify that by 'more info from the crime,' I mean more video or more audio or any type of identifying info recovered from the scene in order to zero in on a suspect. I do not think we need to know the more disturbing, private details.
 
I have long suspected that if they do have DNA, it is not from bodily fluids related to a SA, but rather touch DNA which can come from a number of innocent interactions, depending on where it was found.
 
8771 said:
Hate to revisit the same 'ol argument again and again, but I've been pretty 50/50 re: whether LE has DNA of perpetrator or not. I am currently of the theory that LE does not have DNA of the suspect for the following reason, but I'd love for someone to debunk my theory with facts:

I believe that if LE had DNA, they'd be able to release more from the crime in order to illicit more tips. Given a video, audio and DNA of a suspect at the crime, I would assume it would be fairly difficult for a defense team to argue it was not their client responsible for the crime, no? So why the need for keeping so many details so secret? I'm assuming it's because they don't have the "smoking gun" of the suspect's DNA at the scene.

This is totally armchair legal team, obviously. I have no idea what I'm talking about in any real sense of the inner workings of a murder case. I'd like to clarify that by 'more info from the crime,' I mean more video or more audio or any type of identifying info recovered from the scene in order to zero in on a suspect. I do not think we need to know the more disturbing, private details.
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layer said:
I have long suspected that if they do have DNA, it is not from bodily fluids related to a SA, but rather touch DNA which can come from a number of innocent interactions, depending on where it was found.
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Its understandable why we all question if there is DNA, with DNA phonotyping and the technology to produce a parabon snapshot.....why wouldn't they release a composite sketch if they could?

JMO They must have the killers DNA in some form. As @layer posted and quoted bbm, it is likely touch DNA.

@Charlot123 is our resident expert here on DNA and may be a good person to explain if touch DNA can be used to create a parabon snapshot (and correct me on my terminology as well!;))

According to this article, 6 weeks in they had collected DNA from hundreds of people they had interviewed.

Six weeks later, information continues coming in to Delphi murder investigators

"Over six weeks, hundreds of investigators have checked more than 14,000 tips, interviewed more than 300 potential suspects and took DNA samples from almost all of them. "

IMO it would be a completely unnecessary waste of their time, resources and money for them to do that if they didn't have DNA they were sure belonged to the killer.

Evidence of DNA does not equal evidence of who the perp is, unless the DNA was found in a place where it could only be explained by a sexual assault or a defensive wound.

Maybe the DNA is there...just not in the 'right place' for the 'smoking gun'.

All JMO
 
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Charlot123 said:
@Marzipan , I don’t remember where, because there was so much stuff coming from this case. But he does. Maybe someone here will remember? It is MSM.

The voice itself is interesting. I can hear a “different accent” from the place where I live, but it is the case for a local speech therapist to analyze. I also hear what I would call poor prosody, very narrow range of intonations, and the man ought to have been under stress. But speech therapists know these things much better. However, a good vocal analysis would probably tell more about the person that we think.

ETA: I heard such a voice in one of the people from PA. I never tipped him because he is an outlier age-wise, because the gait is different, and because of many other reasons - I think that to catch the girls, one has to at least move fast, or be strong. But knowing now what the person had been likely diagnosed with, I understand that it is not usual.
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I can't identify the voice's accent, but even in that small sample I'd be very surprised if he's from New England or the far West.
 
LE has repeatedly said they have DNA. (Google press releases from the beginning). I'll guesstimate it was at the year mark they stopped answering this question and became more hush about it. The issue is DNA is not the end all be all answer.
There is DNA all over that crime scene. DNA of people that were confirmed not there. So DNA does not automatically place the killer there. It's more complicated than that.
 
Thanks much. Found it—discussed in threads 87 and 88. Says Leazenby says he knows that voice on “The Delphi Murders: An HLN Investigation,” but I can’t find that online. When I search it, I just come up with the podcast. I’ll keep trying to find it though. Lots of catching up to do.

I wouldn’t discount an outlier for any one the reasons you name, although I can see how altogether they make you lean against. Plus, no shortage of other likely and non-outlier perps.

I would still like to know how they determined height range, whether video, witnesses, footprints, etc., and if they really rule out anyone above 5’10.

Charlot123 said:
@Marzipan , I don’t remember where, because there was so much stuff coming from this case. But he does. Maybe someone here will remember? It is MSM.

The voice itself is interesting. I can hear a “different accent” from the place where I live, but it is the case for a local speech therapist to analyze. I also hear what I would call poor prosody, very narrow range of intonations, and the man ought to have been under stress. But speech therapists know these things much better. However, a good vocal analysis would probably tell more about the person that we think.

ETA: I heard such a voice in one of the people from PA. I never tipped him because he is an outlier age-wise, because the gait is different, and because of many other reasons - I think that to catch the girls, one has to at least move fast, or be strong. But knowing now what the person had been likely diagnosed with, I understand that it is not usual.
Click to expand...
 
Brazenkane said:
I think we will never again see a further release of info, do you know why? I’m pretty certain LE knows who it is.... and probably has for over a year.

I’m the furtherest thing from an expert but I’ve been studying countless interviews and press conferences and the subtleties (and the not so subtle) in the language used by LE, makes me reasonably sure they have had a suspect in mind for the last year or so. DC becoming a more visible face of the investigation is also a sign of a positive turning point (often you see more junior officers become messengers as cases go cold).

I wouldn’t be surprised if you stop seeing LE referring to tips, instead they will use other words such as evidence, or confessions or data or pieces of info.... but no more tips. They will probably start to be more focused on alibis and acquaintances turning BG in.

I think the real thing holding this case back now is the jury expectation of solid, conclusive DNA to get a conviction. Good old fashioned detective work isn’t enough anymore, it needs to be completely packaged.
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Charlot123 said:
They do. That April PC was clearly meant “directly to the killer”. Maybe they pulled out his childish photo and made the sketch, who knows?

But as the result, there are at least four different POIs that I know of (IRL, way more) who are young and whose names are mentioned/hinted at on the Internet. I suspect that neither of them is the killer, but even if one is, the other three are innocent. It concerns me that people’s lives might be at risk because of the case.

LE needs to say something specific about YouTube videos, or about other hobbies unrelated to it. You know? They are into their investigation, but in the meantime, these people who are suspected by the public can have a problem with getting a job, promotions, etc. As to DNA, it may take LE years to make the case airtight. Maybe they’ll never be able to prove it. I am concerned about justice, but also, injustice, too, as what about people who are accused because they live in Delphi?

ETA: I think you are right. And they are close, because they are pulling off all information from YouTube, even something that used to be totally mainstream.

Whatever. As long as they don’t pin it on an innocent guy, good luck!
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Unfortunately, I think you two have both succumbed to wishful thinking. It is fairly evident that LE does not know who BG is.
 
Jmo to me it seems obvious they have been submitting DNA to check against other cases. I firmly believe they have DNA that they know belongs to the killer. They do not want it known, imo, that the girls were subjected to sexual attacks...so they have muddied the waters from the first day.
JMO JMO
 
Brazenkane said:
I think we will never again see a further release of info, do you know why? I’m pretty certain LE knows who it is.... and probably has for over a year.

I’m the furtherest thing from an expert but I’ve been studying countless interviews and press conferences and the subtleties (and the not so subtle) in the language used by LE, makes me reasonably sure they have had a suspect in mind for the last year or so. DC becoming a more visible face of the investigation is also a sign of a positive turning point (often you see more junior officers become messengers as cases go cold).

I wouldn’t be surprised if you stop seeing LE referring to tips, instead they will use other words such as evidence, or confessions or data or pieces of info.... but no more tips. They will probably start to be more focused on alibis and acquaintances turning BG in.

I think the real thing holding this case back now is the jury expectation of solid, conclusive DNA to get a conviction. Good old fashioned detective work isn’t enough anymore, it needs to be completely packaged.
Click to expand...
Brilliant post, Brazen! I wholeheartedly agree!
 
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