Charlot123
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Could be any kind of athlete. What about the limp? Maybe an aging athlete? Or a recent sports trauma? Or arthritis? Or something else?
Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120
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gregjrichards
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I’m all for law enforcement doing everything they can to publicise and generate interest in the case as long as it doesn’t compromise the investigation.
Charlot123
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You know, I can't tell from the video who the BG resembles. I need to see the walk and hear the voice, and chances are, I might still be mistaken. To me, he reminds only Gattsu from Berserk.
tresir2012
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Problem is that with the searchers all through the first night with some on ATV's it would likely be no tracks left to find. If he parked in the cemetery for example, all the LE vehicles parked there on the 14th.
What if...
Central Indiana
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I wish I could like this post 1000 times! My thoughts from the beginning as well. To me, the billboards across the country definitely indicate LE’s belief that this was not just a one time localized event!! There are other hints as well, but this one really stands out.
Something very similar happened in Evansdale with the Lyric and Elizabeth case--Angels Park.
CrimeDawg123
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No, I don't find it odd. What I do find odd is two young girls being murdered in cold blood.
StarryStarryNight
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I certainly think that’s a real possibility. The fact is we are three years out and nobody from a very small Delphi and the surrounding area have recognized BG. The killer in my opinion doesn’t necessarily have to be a local to be marginally familiar with the trails, enough to pull this off. I tend to think that a tip is not going to solve this case, but a random arrest for a similar crime that can be tied in to Delphi. Just my thoughts.
The billboards all over the country. I really didn't give it as much thought back then as I do now. I remember a digital billboard outside the main highway into the Norfolk Naval Base and remember thinking, 'Does the FBI believe this is someone who could be in or associated with the military or do they think someone here from Indiana might recognize him from back home?' Then the billboards came down and I thought that was entirely a funding thing.
I can't remember any murder or missing person case that has received such broad and extensive publicity. I don't recall an Amber Alert case that generated that much exposure. So now that you mention it, I'm asking myself, Why? Did LE believe there was a possibility this killer was responsible for the Iowa murders and could have traveled committing other murders? Did ISP and the FBI search other IN crimes and not find anything close? Did LE believe the video and audio JUST to be recognized by SOMEONE so they shotgunned the photo from the video all over? Now that I think about it I'm wondering why LE did this broad exposure, especially since it didn't apparently lead to any success.
When I hear about the volume of tips - now close to 50K - I wonder how many of these are even from IN, let alone Carrol County, and was the large volume due to the national exposure? Regarding the volume of tips that might mean quantity, but not necessarily quality. The massive quantity not only might be a misleading indicator of the investigation process, but LE may already have their one vital tip and it is just buried very deep within those tips. Yes, I know they have this magic software that slices and dices the info from the tips. But as an auditor with years of experience I know what is put in that database is probably HIGHLY dependent on human judgement and keypunching. IOW, a person who enters it into the database file determines what info from the call gets entered. The person taking the call may have misunderstood the call, too. Of course, as an auditor I think about the process of taking and recording the tip. IOW, does the call taker enter it in the database or do they write it up and it is entered by another person? And how does one person classify the data if there are categories in the file - compared to another person who might also be entering data in the same database? These questions might not be significant with a case that has 1,000 to 5,000 tips total over 5-10 years, but with the volume of tips that came in so fast it could be very significant. I saw the name of the software once in an article and looked it up and found out that it may have not been designed 100% for the FBI, but rather it appears to a COTS (Commercial Off-The-Shelf) software package like MicroSoft's Access or SAP's ERP software. The categories may have been identified by the FBI but the software wasn't exclusive to the FBI. And I wonder about the capabilities of this software to deal with this volume of tips as I don't believe the FBI or anyone else has had much over 1K-5K in tips on a case previously.
Add in the fact that LE had one of the largest task forces I've ever heard of outside of counter-terrorism after 9/11. I read that they recruited temporary help from other Indiana counties and cities. Police and sheriff departments were sending officers and detectives to not only help but they stated this was chance for some of those officers and deputies to get experience in a murder investigation. There were close to a 100 LE working directly on this if not over 100 for the first month or two. It isn't like this is the only murder or missing person's case in IN. One case that I bring up is Marina Boulter missing from Bloomfield in January 2015. ISP probably only had person on the case part time six months after she went missing.
Pardon my rambling, but it is Saturday morning and I just brewed some more coffee.
FBI tip management system is mentioned by ISP 1st Sgt Holeman:
Delphi investigators are comparing tips with cases across the country to find Libby & Abby's killer
Pyramid. I wonder if this isn't the database software package developed and sold by the Dutch company, Pyramid Analytics.
Delphi investigators are comparing tips with cases across the country to find Libby & Abby's killer
Pyramid. I wonder if this isn't the database software package developed and sold by the Dutch company, Pyramid Analytics.
What if...
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I totally agree!
This was a very tragic case, there’s no denying that. But, realistically, there are tragic horrendous murders that occur almost daily in this country. So my question has always been - what is it about this case that drew so much attention from LE & the FBI? I know it’s not uncommon for the FBI to assist with cases such as this one, but their level of direct involvement was noticeably different with this one (or at least appeared that way to me)
Those FBI billboards went up nationwide! Don’t get me wrong, I salute their efforts to find this guy!! But when you look at the bigger picture, it was a double homicide in a small rural midwestern town.
IMO, there was SOMETHING about this crime scene that created an unusual amount of urgency at all levels of LE to apprehend this killer.
The presser from last April was also extremely unique. The emotion, the direct statements to the killer, what appeared to be an “abrupt” change in sketches, the abundance of religious undertones, etc,...
But the one thing that surprised me was their level of certainty that the killer should be considered a local at least at some level. I do believe the killer had to have some level of familiarity with the area, but I can’t help but think the term “local” may have been over emphasized.
I’m assuming that whatever new evidence that was discovered had to be of great significance in order to go from national billboards to insisting a local connection.
Too many oddities in this case to ignore...
All MOO....
Really intriguing thoughts. Very early on, LE seemed to suspect the killer had left the immediate Delphi area.
From Feb. 20, 2017 (BBM)
All-out manhunt underway for main suspect in murders of two Delphi teens
[“We are asking people that were driving through the Hoosier heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or saw somebody walking. We are asking people in Logansport all the way to Lafayette if they saw somebody around that late afternoon on February 13 walking down the roadway. We would like to know about that person,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley.
Police believe the man may have changed his look to try and hide his identity. They are asking every Hoosier to keep their eyes and ears open.]
Fast forward to the April 2019 presser. Now they're asking about a car parked at the CPS lot between noon and 5pm. It's significant because it has to do with their belief he got around quickly that day. This coincides with a new sketch done just days before they started asking about people walking along the roadside. So which is it? Was he walking, or driving? Did somebody drop him off at the trails, or did he walk somewhere afterwards and get a ride back to his car later? Did he go through the woods and come out along the highway to walk back to his car? Or did LE, early on, simply not think the car and/or younger person represented in the sketch was involved?
So many questions.
Has LE ever asked locals to call them with info about being asked about hiking trails in the area in the days leading up to the murders? I was just reading through the last few pages where the idea of a serial killer was being discussed and how it may not necessarily be someone local. And I can see that, but he would have to know about the trail system.
Now, you could Google hiking trails + Delphi, sure. But someone on here had mentioned when they went out to the trails they had a hard time finding the parking lot and almost passed it even though they knew what they were looking for. So it sounds a bit hard to find. And if it was BG's vehicle at the CPS lot, would that be a place to park that would be known to someone just merely passing through?
All just MOO but I wonder if any local person--could be a grocery store clerk, a server at a diner, a gas station attendant, etc.--remembers being asked about local hiking trail access by a man they didn't recognize the day of the murder or the couple days prior. If this was someone merely passing through (maybe a delivery driver or truck driver or someone else who had a reason to be driving through or to Delphi who had never lived there or even been there before) who had these sick urges to attack/kill people (maybe even having done it before but not being caught), maybe he posed as an interested out-of-towner asking casually about "Are there any good hiking trails near here where people go?" He could have been given directions and tips for finding a place to park at the Monon High Bridge area.
On a day to day basis, this would not necessarily be a suspicious interaction. You'd think it was just an out of towner making conversation and asking about a place to take a walk on an unseasonably nice day in February. Probably wouldn't even ever think of that conversation again...until this happened. I'm just curious if they ever got any tips to this effect (of course, we won't know, but it's just something I wonder about and is maybe a different angle of approaching this).
Now, you could Google hiking trails + Delphi, sure. But someone on here had mentioned when they went out to the trails they had a hard time finding the parking lot and almost passed it even though they knew what they were looking for. So it sounds a bit hard to find. And if it was BG's vehicle at the CPS lot, would that be a place to park that would be known to someone just merely passing through?
All just MOO but I wonder if any local person--could be a grocery store clerk, a server at a diner, a gas station attendant, etc.--remembers being asked about local hiking trail access by a man they didn't recognize the day of the murder or the couple days prior. If this was someone merely passing through (maybe a delivery driver or truck driver or someone else who had a reason to be driving through or to Delphi who had never lived there or even been there before) who had these sick urges to attack/kill people (maybe even having done it before but not being caught), maybe he posed as an interested out-of-towner asking casually about "Are there any good hiking trails near here where people go?" He could have been given directions and tips for finding a place to park at the Monon High Bridge area.
On a day to day basis, this would not necessarily be a suspicious interaction. You'd think it was just an out of towner making conversation and asking about a place to take a walk on an unseasonably nice day in February. Probably wouldn't even ever think of that conversation again...until this happened. I'm just curious if they ever got any tips to this effect (of course, we won't know, but it's just something I wonder about and is maybe a different angle of approaching this).
That's a thought I've had a many time. Even if my favorite scenario of someone who walked the trail 10-12 years ago in middle school is correct, it is is entirely possible he still was there sometime before to familiarize himself with the trail. If he was there in the week prior would he have shown up on surveillance video at, say, a gas station or convenience store?
curiousgene
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Though it is a very possible that BG may have inquired, read about the trails and felt it is a perfect place to find a victim. But the picture of BG on the bridge makes me think he is a local who has ties with Delphi. The ease and comfort with which BG was crossing the bridge, hands in pocket and his command to led the girls towards an isolated, not very visible part of the area makes me believe he is someone who has walked the bridge before and had a thorough knowledge of the lay out of the land.
Awsi Dooger
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I always wondered about that law enforcement question in the early days, regarding someone walking along State Road 25. I think it would have been possible. You had the great map back on page 42 of this thread. I really appreciated it because it's very similar to the route I unintentionally took back to my car after visiting the bridge in November. I crossed the bridge but wasn't going to do it on the way back, not after two stumbles. I thought it would be simple to walk back under the bridge, crosss Deer Creek to the right, and rejoin the trail back to Freedom Bridge.
It was anything but simple. I never managed. But throughout that traipse through the woods I kept thinking how easy it was, and why has it so seldom been proposed for Bridge Guy? The only problematic area would be the initial segment back under the bridge and then the next 200 yards or so. That is fairly open and not far from the beginning of the bridge. Beyond that there was plenty of nothing. The only thing I ran in to was the tree of shoes, which I found out later was a tribute from the homeowner to a son who died young.
Unlike your proposed route, I remained close to Deer Creek and followed as it looped, looking for any opportunity to cross. Not close. It is far too steep on both sides. That is the only problem I saw with your proposed version, the segment between .77 and .87. That is not a gentle walk on level terrain across Deer Creek. It isn't anything like the area where Libby's shoe was found. Deer Creek near the early stages of the Monon High trail is down a severe embankment, and also the creek is quite yucky.
Unfortunately I didn't take many photos of that area but this one demonstrates the severity of slope -- enough to cause a mudslide -- and also the mucky nature of the creek. This is to the right of the early section of the trail, perhaps 60% of the way between Freedom Bridge and the trailhead:
Imgur
Your map on page 42 had Bridge Guy crossing somewhat right from that photo. I think the slope and the difficulties would remain. Anyone emerging in that area would really be wet, muddy and exhausted. Very high likelihood to draw attention to himself if anyone noticed.
In contrast, the route I ended up taking wasn't bad at all. From your map at .77 I ascended the bank to State Road 25. That is exactly where I entered, just prior to the highway bridge over Deer Creek. The shoulder was plenty wide. Maybe 2 cars zoomed past while I was walking the overpass. Once I passed the bridge I moved onto the grass at right. I happened to take a picture there, solely to remind myself of my travails back to my car, but it is also useful in this discussion:
Imgur
From that point you've got traffic seeing your back and nothing else. Those vehicles are headed toward Logansport. The ones coming toward are headed toward Lafayette. Best of luck to anyone on either side to describe you or own anything but a vague memory of yeah...there was a guy walking alongside the road.
And from the area I took that picture it is an easy walk underneath Freedom Bridge and then short distance around the corner to the spot of that abandoned building.
I'll try to paste the map from page 42, courtesy of TL4S:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/exit-jpg.233561/
Charlot123
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If he is a serial killer, I agree he's never been heard about. Probably, someone very average, with minimal history of sexual accusations.
But if Delphi and IA are connected, I bet he had lived in both places, and also, in many others where women disappeared. Not a passer-by.
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ReadySet
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Wouldn't the connection just be that after the deaths, they realized that this area is not safe, and now they are trying to make it safe?
Falling Down
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Agreed, and I'd thought similarly about him being arrested until about a year ago, then had an eerie feeling BG has already been ID'd, but either hasn't been called in and/or someone or some people in his life are afraid to turn him in. I firmly believe at this point he's been ID'd.
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