Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

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Isn't this beyond creepy? When I saw the mask without the person I got chills.
You should look on Amazon. The masks they have for sale there are amazing. Some are meant for transvestites or cross dressers and they go to the waist, complete with overlarge breasts. They went for around $250-$350. But I bet they fooled people.
Well that was an education.....and yes, you are right. Many options and choices, and from a distance (or even not so distant), they could pass for real.
Wow.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
that’s interesting. I hadn’t heard about a possible connection to a meat packing plant. Although there’s no way in heck I can catch up with 122 threads! I had a thought that maybe this guy works in an industry where he wears a uniform (or coveralls, etc.). Maybe no one had called in because they don’t recognize him in his street clothes. Just a thought.
Indiana Packers was discussed early on in the case, they are the largest employer in Delphi.
 
We've had many discussions on here about whether or not this killer is a serial killer. I didn't recall hearing the term "linkage blindness" until I listened to a podcast recently. Basically, it refers to LE's inability to link crimes to a single person because of insufficient or inadequate data. This article about Thomas Hargrove's 'Murder Accountability Project' or MAP mentions the problem here:
Serial Killers Should Fear This Algorithm

I know we have ISP, Carroll County Sheriff's Dept, FBI and who knows who all else on this investigation. And that probably conjures up the thought, "Oh, with so many LE like this involved there is no way they could have missed a connection to another murder." Well, I suspect it still could have been missed in spite of the very best efforts of LE here. IOW, if another jurisdiction or jurisdictions failed to report sufficient details on another crime, then LE working on the Delphi murders would not likely make the connection. Former prosecutor Ives mentioned 'calling cards' left by the killer. If another jurisdiction fails to note those in another crime in a common database, LE would not likely make the connection.
 
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CocoChanel
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I think they can “square out” Abby, like I do on photos of historical places, because one is not supposed to post unknown people, right? If I can do it on a photo, surely, Disney can do it on a video?

You mentioning Abby makes sense. As I am looking at people’s FBs (totally unrelated to this case, merely friends’ ones), I can see how a girl of Abby’s type could become a target. Maybe she was the intended victim, and Libby was the uncomfortable witness that broke everything, hence, the anger, the rage. Also, I think, the killer has a personality disorder, his world is split and easily changes from idealization to devaluation. it is probably seen in the crime. Maybe this is why DC who knows more than us alluded to religion, for someone it could be an attempt to glue together something that can not be mended.

Well, Easter. Catholic/Protestant was last week, Greek Orthodox just had passed. As people think of forgiveness and redemption. I understand that the murderer is not going to repent. And suicide for him is probably a sin, although religious people differ on it. I am sure there are ways out of the situation that are at least more decent. He probably has relatives, maybe many, there are huge lines in Indiana. I think there are ways of dealing with it that would at least untaint the name.

Forgive me, but when you say Easter, do you remember Easter goes hand in hand with Passover. This is a holiday season for all those religions. I don't know if Easter or Passover is relevant, but their timing is connected, not coincidental.
 
Forgive me, but when you say Easter, do you remember Easter goes hand in hand with Passover. This is a holiday season for all those religions. I don't know if Easter or Passover is relevant, but their timing is connected, not coincidental.

Historically, surely they are connected, have to be, and the influx of people to Jerusalem that year was to celebrate Passover. The story of Christ in Jerusalem was during Passover; the reaction of the Sinhedrion and Pontius Pilates were essentially linked with the wish to avoid people’s unrest. Even the word is related, as the festival is called Paskha in Greek and Peisakh in Hebrew. Easter, i believe, derives from Eoster (East), coming from spring festival.

(BTW, I don’t quite understand how Easter and Pesakh sometimes fall on the same week, and sometimes differ, as they are calculated by the lunar calendar, but the priests and the rabbis should know - so these days, the timing is not always connected).

But coming back to BG, I assume by what DC said, that BG is considered to be of Christian denomination, although I can’t understand how any person with a shred of conscience, religion aside, could have done it. However, LE thinks that BG has a tad of conscience left, so I was wondering how BG would feel during Easter.
 
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We've had many discussions on here about whether or not this killer is a serial killer. I didn't recall hearing the term "linkage blindness" until I listened to a podcast recently. Basically, it refers to LE's inability to link crimes to a single person because of insufficient or inadequate data. This article about Thomas Hargrove's 'Murder Accountability Project' or MAP mentions the problem here:
Serial Killers Should Fear This Algorithm

I know we have ISP, Carroll County Sheriff's Dept, FBI and who knows who all else on this investigation. And that probably conjures up the thought, "Oh, with so many LE like this involved there is no way they could have missed a connection to another murder." Well, I suspect it still could have been missed in spite of the very best efforts of LE here. IOW, if another jurisdiction or jurisdictions failed to report sufficient details on another crime, then LE working on the Delphi murders would not likely make the connection. Former prosecutor Ives mentioned 'calling cards' left by the killer. If another jurisdiction fails to note those in another crime in a common database, LE would not likely make the connection.

These are all relevant points. I've looked at literally hundreds of cases in rural areas (generally) across a large section of the Midwest, per information available online, and have yet to find anything with details similar to the ones which set the Delphi case apart. The details I'm talking about are the "knowns" in the Delphi case. Either LE have their own knowns from the CS that have similarities to another case or cases, or they have nothing with regards to connections at this point.

I appreciate Prosecutor Ives' being open in that one podcast, but he admitted that in Indiana, unlike other states (NY for example, where I'm from originally), LE take the lead in investigations. So a lot of information regarding the investigation, which may include details of the CS, may not be known by Prosecutor Ives.

JMO
 
Maybe, the ones who are in the know since 2017 or 2019, fear to start an avalanche. If it wasn't BG's first murder (and they are suspecting it now, after Delphi with it's video/audio/sketch2), they fGs don't want to learn more of BG's past. Maybe, many incidents/travelling-schedules/special behavior have been inexplicable to them over the years. Someday after the Delphi murders a light bulb started to blink and they got it. MOO

What if the opposite is true?
What if the GF/the wife/the mother, said, “get rid of her”. Assuming that otherwise, someone will always be in danger.

(It is possible if the killer is local. Otherwise, not.)

There is also a chance that the GF/wife emerged in his life later and has no clue.
 
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But aren't you assuming something here? Has it been established the killer was a DNR personnel? I'm talking about the badge thing.
On the other hand, it must be relatively easy to come by a badge of sorts. Has anyone gone to the Army/Navy surplus store? Or gone into a military PX, or whatever else they are called. Is there one in that area? Some unusual things can be purchased there. Like handcuffs.
Thinking along these lines, where could a badge be bought or picked up? A pawn shop? Someone that was retired or deceased LE or military LE? Who in that area would know someone like this? If you're from that area, think about it. These are two young girls, that if someone is 'flashing a badge', how do they know what is real and what isn't
unless they know the killer? Maybe a badge existed at the scene, but maybe it wasn't authentic or authorized, but then maybe it was the real thing.

I think, online.
Custom Badges | Badge And Wallet

Etsy, EBay. Very limited trace given how many people shop there.

Pawn shop is possible if you run into a badge. Very unlikely, it was in Delphi.

There probably exists vast underground world making documents.

My best option/answer for these cases is, stolen.


ETA: DNR employs, but also, has volunteers. A volunteer could be easier.

DNR: Volunteer with Fish & Wildlife
 
But coming back to BG, I assume by what DC said, that BG is considered to be of Christian denomination, although I can’t understand how any person with a shred of conscience, religion aside, could have done it. However, LE thinks that BG has a tad of conscience left, so I was wondering how BG would feel during Easter.

bbm
Answer to bbm: severe mental issues, as you said yourself before. MOO
I believe, Easter and the meaning of it will be the smallest problem in his life, even if he had a christian education in his past. Maybe, DC appealed more to BG's intelligence than to his conscience. DC could have said "I hope, you have a little bit of intelligence left". The intelligence, which is necessary for BG to finally stop his compulsive "missions" by himself, perhaps with admitting to this double murder.
 
bbm
Answer to bbm: severe mental issues, as you said yourself before. MOO
I believe, Easter and the meaning of it will be the smallest problem in his life, even if he had a christian education in his past. Maybe, DC appealed more to BG's intelligence than to his conscience. DC could have said "I hope, you have a little bit of intelligence left". The intelligence, which is necessary for BG to finally stop his compulsive "missions" by himself, perhaps with admitting to this double murder.
DC's comments about BG's having a conscience make me think that DC just doesn't understand psychopaths.
 
I think, online.
Custom Badges | Badge And Wallet

Etsy, EBay. Very limited trace given how many people shop there.

Pawn shop is possible if you run into a badge. Very unlikely, it was in Delphi.

There probably exists vast underground world making documents.

My best option/answer for these cases is, stolen.


ETA: DNR employs, but also, has volunteers. A volunteer could be easier.

DNR: Volunteer with Fish & Wildlife
A badge: Perhaps as a memorabilia given to him, because he showed so much interest and enthusiasm for it like a little boy?
 
bbm
Answer to bbm: severe mental issues, as you said yourself before. MOO
I believe, Easter and the meaning of it will be the smallest problem in his life, even if he had a christian education in his past. Maybe, DC appealed more to BG's intelligence than to his conscience. DC could have said "I hope, you have a little bit of intelligence left". The intelligence, which is necessary for BG to finally stop his compulsive "missions" by himself, perhaps with admitting to this double murder.

“Missions” is spot on. JMO.

I believe he in “in and out” of his mental episodes, as well as “mission-like” behavior, and they might even coincide.

Something has to stop him. Can he ever trust himself, that he won’t do it again? And what happens if he does?
 
I think the killer may have participated in the search and dumped the phone at that time.
Wow! I wonder if FBI facial recognition abilities can see the face under such a mask.
I think, silicon masks are not identificable yet. BUT:

The system accurately identified people a wearing scarf 77 per cent of the time – a cap and scarf 69 per cent of the time and a cap, scarf and glasses 55 per cent of the time. This isn’t as good as systems that recognise undisguised human faces, but it is the best at seeing through disguises, says Singh.
-.-
Singh has plans to take this research even further and see if it’s possible to design an algorithm that can identify someone wearing a rigid plastic mask, like the V for Vendetta masks that are popular at some protests.

Read more: Even a mask won't hide you from the latest face recognition tech
 
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Isn't this beyond creepy? When I saw the mask without the person I got chills.
You should look on Amazon. The masks they have for sale there are amazing. Some are meant for transvestites or cross dressers and they go to the waist, complete with overlarge breasts. They went for around $250-$350. But I bet they fooled people.
Well that was an education.....and yes, you are right. Many options and choices, and from a distance (or even not so distant), they could pass for real.
Wow.

Amateur opinion and speculation
I did read here on WS, that L had been caught by property owners for trepassing more than once before her murder. What, if BG stalked the girl/s online and knew about this? Maybe, L posted something re those incidents and made fun of it? I would see it as a completely normal behavior of a teenager, IF she had joked about it. (Idk the content of her SM). What, if BG indeed took a badge to his "mission", because he is a quick thinker and saw his chance for keeping the girls at bay from the start?? MOO and only brain storming
<modsnip>

amateur opinion and speculation
 
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@Falling Down and @Awsi Dooger given the fact that you’ve both visited the area and are somewhat familiar with the terrain etc., I’m interested to know what your thoughts are regarding the possibility of BG being a DNR employee?
also thoughts on if BG was taking a toilet break in the woods leading to the discovery of potential victims on the bridge?
TIA!

I'll be blunt. I am not a fan of abbreviations. I don't know what DNR means. But even without knowing what it means I will say an emphatic No. I always believe in every other possibility above a specific connection. I see little reason to believe Bridge Guy was local, given the exceptionally low population of the area.

I'm also not a believer in a toilet break theory. The trails are extremely low traveled. But anyone who is there is doing so on design. My belief is Bridge Guy had designs on finding victims on a trail. Monon High Bridge Trail may have been one of many he was scouting at the time.

Never place full spotlight on the result. If these murders had occurred on another trail in the Delphi system then all emphasis would be there, and we'd occasionally hear about Monon High only as an aside, if at all.
 
Yes, most crimes are solved because the killer lives within a particular geographic area that can be somewhat defined. But public places present a problem much in the same way that interstate highway travel presents a problem. A person can become familiar with a particular place, whether that be a park or a rest stop, and feel comfortable enough to know that place without actually living there or in the general area. In my opinion, this could be someone who has visited the Monon High Bridge trail a few times in the past but does not live anywhere near the local area. And it could also be someone who has visited the Monon High Bridge trail and lives close by too.

Great post overall. I quoted it only partially, the aspect that stood out to me.

I don't exclude Bridge Guy from being local. But I don't view it as necessity or anything close to necessity.

If Bridge Guy is committing a crime like this in a well traveled building, and one with video surveillance, then the local knowledge requirement is extraordinary. He has to know which room he can take them, one that will be accessible and vacant, along with remaining vacant long enough for him to escape. He has to combine that ideal room with camera avoidance. He has to know the foot traffic pattern and timing. And so forth.

What the heck does he have to know at Monon High? Nobody else will be here. That's about it. He's picked that trail because of how low traveled it is. Now where do I take the victims? Up here on the same level as the bridge? Not ideal. There are two homes not far away. This could be messy and noisy. And if I leave the bodies up here anyone who searches for the girls will no doubt find them quickly, perhaps before I'm fully long gone. Okay, how about down the hill from the bridge and on the same side of the creek? The gravel access road cuts through down there. The tree cover is very thin. This is February, after all. Certainly I can do better than this. But I can't risk a long march amidst captivity. Too many things can go wrong, like if I walk them back under the bridge. It needs to be fairly close yet isolated, and visible from as few areas as possible.

IMO, that is the aspect people are missing. It wasn't as if Bridge Guy identified the ideal concealed location amidst hundreds of possibilities. He had only a handful of logical choices, and picked the best one. That wouldn't have taken long at all to figure out.

BTW, I agree with Falling Down that using the gravel access road and then maneuvering back up to the bridge would have been asking too much of Bridge Guy. He would have been waiting down there all day or all week for a victim(s). Plus he wouldn't have had a clear indication of what they looked like in terms of age, etc. Then maneuvering back up to the bridge would have been a chore, especially to the north side. You'd have to cross the creek to emerge over there. Bridge Guy already would have looked wet in Libby's video.

Also, locals wouldn't know a darn thing about that area across the creek where the bodies were found. I stood right there in the middle of the creek bed and couldn't see anything. I guarantee prior to these murders virtually nobody had been there in years. You know there's a slope of some type. That's about it.

I hope all the "likes" to that post and the intimate knowledge supposedly required weren't liking the notion that the intimate knowledge was held by the property owner. That is a particularly pathetic recent theme on YouTube and elsewhere. Talk about flunking probability. Those YouTubers have zero credibility. They sucker gullible types.
 
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