Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[Charlot123]

I’ve been following since day one. I check in every so often to see if there’s anything new. A little heartbreaking knowing not much has changed over the years. One thing I can say is I think people give BG to much credit. I don’t think he’s all that intelligent and he’s only gotten away with this for so long because of sheer awful luck. His time is coming.

For the sake of LE, maybe we should keep on assuming that BG is very smart.

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[Charlot123]

I think that his name has been called in, but it's probably just one name out of thousands. Nothing has made the tip stand out among all of the other tips that have to be run to ground.

I think it was probably called, not emailed. And maybe the person taking the call was tired, or something ruled him out (like to me it would be the height, and maybe I am wrong), or it was like, “hey, Fred, can you imagine who was tipped today? The fantasy these folks have!”

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[Deleted member 102539]

Agreed I'm picturing at this point that its going to take a situation where either BG is drunk and or on drugs and lets some information slip to somebody that then goes to LE with it and gets the ball rolling. JMO

It would be an anonyme call only, I believe. MOO Would that help?

 

[Charlot123]

What I think the police were saying at the 4/22/19 press conference is that they believe that there is a higher statistical probability that the man on the bridge was from Delphi, IN or surrounding area. If I had written the same post 3 years ago, I do not think people would agree with me as much because they would want to give police time to investigate. Even I thought the killer could likely be from the Delphi, IN area at that time. So context matters. The families think the police are doing a good job and they probably know more than all of us. But as time goes by, I keep wondering how long it will take before the families respectfully go the police and ask, "Ok, realistically, what is the chance this case gets solved this year?"

My view on most criminal activity is this: I think most criminals, even ones like the bridge guy, are opportunistic in nature. They see something and they take it. It is that simple.

I could not agree with you more about the property owner. I liked what the property owner said at his court hearing when the judge asked if he had anything to say. His response was the only reason he is going to jail is because some person left two dead bodies on his property.

So if I were a detective on this case I would tell the property owner privately that I never suspected him of the crime. I know you cannot come to any conclusion 100% until the killer is caught. But if he asked why I am so sure this is what I would tell him: If a guy on probation gets it in his head that he wants to kidnap and kill two kids while walking across a bridge I think he could come up with a better alibi over a two day period than the one that landed you in jail.

The idea is that the property owner should be the one person who does know that were the bodies were left is on his property. And then he would or should expect that police are going to knock on his door.

One more thing. The killer got something out of these killings. I don’t know what, but something. Be it short-lived sexual gratification, or silencing one of the girls, or simply being paid for the job.

The property owner lost everything as the result of this crime. In my mind, he is the last person in Delphi to be suspected.

 

[Ozoner]

One more thing. The killer got something out of these killings. I don’t know what, but something. Be it short-lived sexual gratification, or silencing one of the girls, or simply being paid for the job.

The property owner lost everything as the result of this crime. In my mind, he is the last person in Delphi to be suspected.

I would bet money on sexual gratification even if there was no actual sexual assault.
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The hitman angle can be ruled out absolutely. First of all, in the hundreds or maybe thousands of cases I've followed over the past 30-plus years, I've never heard of a hit on a young teen girl. Second, a hitman isn't going to stab two girls to death in broad daylight in a public area. (John Kelly claims that they were stabbed, and he seems to be "in the know.") A hitman is going to cruise by someone's house at night and shoot the person in the head. Finally, the girls' decision to visit the trail at that particular time was an impromptu one. No one knew that they were going to be there. Trying to concoct a scenario where someone did would be pure fantasy.

 

[IceIce9]

I would bet money on sexual gratification even if there was no actual sexual assault.
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The hitman angle can be ruled out absolutely. First of all, in the hundreds or maybe thousands of cases I've followed over the past 30-plus years, I've never heard of a hit on a young teen girl. Second, a hitman isn't going to stab two girls to death in broad daylight in a public area. (John Kelly claims that they were stabbed, and he seems to be "in the know.") A hitman is going to cruise by someone's house at night and shoot the person in the head. Finally, the girls' decision to visit the trail at that particular time was an impromptu one. No one knew that they were going to be there. Trying to concoct a scenario where someone did would be pure fantasy.

BBM

The cause of death hasn’t been released. Several people “in the know” have suggested COD of various means but none have been confirmed.

We don’t know that their decision to visit the trail was impromptu. Teen girls often plan things days ahead of time and then ask permission at the opportune time. They knew they would have this day off from school. They could have planned this a day or more ahead of time and then asked permission after they assisted Becky with chores. Becky said they helped her with filing and then asked if they could go to the trail.

We can speculate but there are some things that we just don’t know. We can’t rule out any scenario absolutely. MOO

 

[ab01]

I would bet money on sexual gratification even if there was no actual sexual assault.
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The hitman angle can be ruled out absolutely. First of all, in the hundreds or maybe thousands of cases I've followed over the past 30-plus years, I've never heard of a hit on a young teen girl. Second, a hitman isn't going to stab two girls to death in broad daylight in a public area. (John Kelly claims that they were stabbed, and he seems to be "in the know.") A hitman is going to cruise by someone's house at night and shoot the person in the head. Finally, the girls' decision to visit the trail at that particular time was an impromptu one. No one knew that they were going to be there. Trying to concoct a scenario where someone did would be pure fantasy.

Yah I’ve never heard of killing a child to silence them, that happens in movies.

I think it’s far more likely that this was for some kind of gratification, sexually motivated even though sexual assault may or may not of happened. But I do believe that was likely a motive

 

[Andieinsyd]

There was a very sad case here in Australia where a twelve year old girl was killed likely in an attempt to cover up sexual abuse. It was reported that the perpetrator had feared the girl had become pregnant so the abuse was likely to come out and ruin lives. The person who killed young Tiahleigh was the father of the abuser.

I am NOT drawing any similarities between this case and Abby and Libby’s murder at all, and absolutely am not pointing the finger at either of their families. I guess this quite recent case was so well reported here in Australia, it is front of mind that a motive to kill a child can be to cover up a crime.

'I was supposed to protect you': Child killer Rick Thorburn's confession letter

 

[IceIce9]

Yah I’ve never heard of killing a child to silence them, that happens in movies.

I think it’s far more likely that this was for some kind of gratification, sexually motivated even though sexual assault may or may not of happened. But I do believe that was likely a motive

MOO I would say teenagers and younger have been murdered to silence them when they have threatened to reveal abuse or situations of molesting, just for example. Both boy victims and girl victims.

Another example is teenage girls who have been by boyfriends when they have become pregnant.

I am NOT saying that any of the above applies to this case however I respectfully wanted to mention that children have been murdered in order to silence them.

 

[ab01]

MOO I would say teenagers and younger have been murdered to silence them when they have threatened to reveal abuse or situations of molesting, just for example. Both boy victims and girl victims.

Another example is teenage girls who have been by boyfriends when they have become pregnant.

I am NOT saying that any of the above applies to this case however I respectfully wanted to mention that children have been murdered in order to silence them.

Regardless I’m not sure a murder on a public trail in broad daylight would be the place to silence a person. Jmo

 

[IceIce9]

Regardless I’m not sure a murder on a public trail in broad daylight would be the place to silence a person. Jmo

Respectfully I would say that no scenario or motive has been ruled out. Who would have even thought a murder would occur for any reason near a public trail in broad daylight?

 

[Skillz]

How likely is it that LE has a POI but can't connect this individual due to an alias or false identity?

They could be watching someone very closely to gather more evidence. If they have a POI, I know they will want to have as much evidence as possible in order to present a solid case.

also, I know I am late in the game, but the 2 composite sketches are really confusing to me.

 

[ab01]

Respectfully I would say that no scenario or motive has been ruled out. Who would have even thought a murder would occur for any reason near a public trail in broad daylight?

Nope not ruling it out at all

But it’s highly unlikely imo for many reasons

For one that would mean there was a connection to the victim or victims

One of the girls family members would likely recognize the perp.

This case likely would have been fairly easy to solve, more evidence with a familiar murder

So correct can’t rule it out, but there’s also zero evidence of it. And it’s highly unlikely to be part of this case imo

 

[Ozoner]

Respectfully I would say that no scenario or motive has been ruled out. Who would have even thought a murder would occur for any reason near a public trail in broad daylight?

Actually, public trails have been the preferred hunting grounds of a number of serial killers, so that sort of murder shouldn't be too surprising. BG is a run-of-the-mill trail killer; the only thing different about this case is that he was captured on video.

 

[Yemelyan]

It might be easier. DC is a religious person. DC probably has own small circle of POIs. “I saw you in church, hence, you have some conscience left” is the way DC could think.

I can't tell if you are speaking rhetorically or not. Are you suggesting that DC has a small circle of POIs, at least one of which attends his own church? You are aware that DC is not a local investigator or resident of Delphi? Or maybe you are saying that DC is so involved in the day to day investigation of this case, that he himself staked out church services nearby to see who attended? This doesn't seem very likely to me.

I don't think Carter, or anyone in this case, necessarily believes BG has a conscience. IMO almost everything in that press conference was said in hopes of eliciting a reaction.

One more thing. The killer got something out of these killings. I don’t know what, but something. Be it short-lived sexual gratification, or silencing one of the girls, or simply being paid for the job.
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The chances of it being one of your last two suggestions are almost zero now, IMO. Not only for all the good reasons @Ozoner and @ab01 have suggested, but because of what we learned from Robert Ives in the Down the Hill podcast. There were signatures to this crime, more than one. Signatures by definition are things done by the perpetrator for his own psychological satisfaction that were not necessary for the commission of the crime. Hits don't have signatures. People who react out of momentary rage or self preservation don't have signatures. The fact that LE even identified signatures in this case is highly, highly significant and points directly to the motive.

 

[ab01]

I can't tell if you are speaking rhetorically or not. Are you suggesting that DC has a small circle of POIs, at least one of which attends his own church? You are aware that DC is not a local investigator or resident of Delphi? Or maybe you are saying that DC is so involved in the day to day investigation of this case, that he himself staked out church services nearby to see who attended? This doesn't seem very likely to me.

I don't think Carter, or anyone in this case, necessarily believes BG has a conscience. IMO almost everything in that press conference was said in hopes of eliciting a reaction.

Yes this! Way too much has been made of the things that were said during that particular press conference.

At one point people were absolutely convinced it was someone affiliated with a local church simply bc Carter referenced a certain faith based movie.

 

[ab01]

For the sake of LE, maybe we should keep on assuming that BG is very smart.

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I think BG had a few things that benefited him in not yet being caught.

He was extremely lucky

He was extremely quick in the commission of the crime and quickly left the scene

He was extremely fortunate that Nobody seems to be able to identify him from the video/audio

He has managed to keep his mouth shut for now anyways

But as for him being smart? He’s smart in the same way that a door nail is imo

 

[Ozoner]

I think it was probably called, not emailed. And maybe the person taking the call was tired, or something ruled him out (like to me it would be the height, and maybe I am wrong), or it was like, “hey, Fred, can you imagine who was tipped today? The fantasy these folks have!”

Hopefully BG hasn't been cleared by mistake; hopefully the tip with his name just hasn't been run to ground yet.

 

[Falling Down]

I've also done a lot of looking and yeah, there are not a lot of parallel crimes. Possibly L&L in Iowa, and another woman from Iowa who was found dead at a fishing access in Minnesota. There are murders of young women in the west in the 1970s and 1980's, particularly Colorado and Washington, where the victim was left in rural areas near water, but that seems both too old and too far afield.

I think you might be conflating MN with South Dakota, the gal found along the river at the boat launch. That's another weird case, and one where we know very little, so far as the CS is concerned. Then again, she was attacked and then she drowned, so i don't think they have much.

I just don't think there's anything that's happened in the last 20 years in OH, IN, KY, MI, and IL that has details similar to the Delphi case. One huge detail is this guy was on foot, walking across a considerable distance on foot, no less. I'm picturing someone who has stalked and scouted places with similar characteristics as the Delphi case.

That said, I find it surprising, as in I expected to find cases here on WS or in online searches which had similarities. I've yet to find one case that I think might be related, as in a slam-dunk, and nobody here on WS has come up with anything, which is both surprising and disappointing at the same time.

I think the boat launch case along the river in SD most closely resembles Delphi, but that's a bit of a stretch considering the distance between the two areas.

Good post carbuff.

I really do think BG is a bit of a Daylight Phantom.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I'll be blunt. I am not a fan of abbreviations. I don't know what DNR means. But even without knowing what it means I will say an emphatic No. I always believe in every other possibility above a specific connection. I see little reason to believe Bridge Guy was local, given the exceptionally low population of the area.

I'm also not a believer in a toilet break theory. The trails are extremely low traveled. But anyone who is there is doing so on design. My belief is Bridge Guy had designs on finding victims on a trail. Monon High Bridge Trail may have been one of many he was scouting at the time.

Never place full spotlight on the result. If these murders had occurred on another trail in the Delphi system then all emphasis would be there, and we'd occasionally hear about Monon High only as an aside, if at all.

I'm of the opinion he is familiar with other secluded areas across this part of the Midwest, and he chose Delphi for a lot of obvious reasons. I think he figured he "hit the jackpot", so to speak, when the girls were dropped off and nobody else was around.

Which makes me wonder how many other times he'd lurked there and perhaps elsewhere in this region. Maybe even beyond this region as others have wondered aloud here about.

JMO