Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

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Yah unfortunately some people in today's day and age with instant access to social media don't realize what an actual tip is.

It's not well I saw so and so on the internet and he looks just like BG, No I've never met him and don't know anything about him but my friend karen thinks so too.

Instead of:
I know so and so and he was in the area that day and he had called in sick from work that day.

Or my neighbor fits the description and he came over that day and he was acting strange and his boots were all muddy and he kinda looks like BG

^^^^THIS

A credible tip would have to include specific information about why the tipster thinks an individual was there, and involved in the murders that day. Often times I think about how difficult that will be when a credible tip does come in that points to BG, but then they have to back it up with solid evidence to get an arrest warrant.

So you have to put the killer in that general area, on that day, during the time in question. Then you have to prove he was on the bridge, abducted the girls, and killed them at the CS.

Hate to say it but this will be extremely difficult for LE to do.

JMO
 
^^^^THIS

A credible tip would have to include specific information about why the tipster thinks an individual was there, and involved in the murders that day. Often times I think about how difficult that will be when a credible tip does come in that points to BG, but then they have to back it up with solid evidence to get an arrest warrant.

So you have to put the killer in that general area, on that day, during the time in question. Then you have to prove he was on the bridge, abducted the girls, and killed them at the CS.

Hate to say it but this will be extremely difficult for LE to do.

JMO

Yep and its truly no small task, As they have been inundated with pointless tips from day one in this case.

I can't even imagine the man hours that have went into having to sort thru pointless social media rumors that have been submitted as useful tips.

Unfortunately in many instances people don't even realize that they were doing more harm than good
 
Yep and its truly no small task, As they have been inundated with pointless tips from day one in this case.

I can't even imagine the man hours that have went into having to sort thru pointless social media rumors that have been submitted as useful tips.

Unfortunately in many instances people don't even realize that they were doing more harm than good

Agreed. The initial tips, the "tips" based off of weak assumptions and what have you (RSO's, etc.), then they released that stupid sketch in July of '17, and things really got crazy.

I'm of the opinion they should have been more tight-lipped early on about certain things, but early on should have released the sketch released a year ago, and the video should have been put out to the media early.

Too much of what LE have said, and what they have released, has led to wild speculation and sensationalism in this case.

JMO
 
I think when they get tips in they probably put them into categories. So when the detectives working the case ask what tips came in this week, this is probably the response:

We got 50 Columbo's, 30 Sherlock Holmes, 22 Perry Mason's, 18 Matlock's, 10 Inspector Clouseau's, 8 Murder She Wrote's, 2 Magnum P.I.'s, and ohhhhhhh my personal favorite, a MacGyver.
That's the point, maybe. I wonder, if LE/FBI for the time being put away the tips, which named special people, who LE/FBI thought of completely unlikely being the right BG. Perhaps the drawer with inscription "nearly impossible to be perp" ;) got sorted out not sooner as at the end (Dec 2018?) and not in a chronological order from the start? First the Regist. SOs, then the creepy/violent losers with criminal record, then drawer No. 3 and 4 and 5 and so on. - I would like to know more about their system in following tips.
 
I can't tell if you are speaking rhetorically or not. Are you suggesting that DC has a small circle of POIs, at least one of which attends his own church? You are aware that DC is not a local investigator or resident of Delphi? Or maybe you are saying that DC is so involved in the day to day investigation of this case, that he himself staked out church services nearby to see who attended? This doesn't seem very likely to me.

I believe that like sheriff TL has a small circle of POIs, so does DC. I understand that DC is not from Delphi, that he has a big position in the state of Indiana, and it just so happened that the murders and the fires occurred on his watch, and now he has to spend a disproportionate amount of time in that tiny hamlet of Indiana’s territory. But from what I know about DC, if he stayed in Delphi over the weekend, he most likely went to church.

I think that during that speech, they threw in different traits. Some, like “it is about power to you”, would describe one person, “a tiny bit of conscience left”, probably, someone else. Like the sketches are not “the real” BG, probably, some composites, so are aspects of his speech directed at different POIs.

The chances of it being one of your last two suggestions are almost zero now, IMO. Not only for all the good reasons @Ozoner and @ab01 have suggested, but because of what we learned from Robert Ives in the Down the Hill podcast. There were signatures to this crime, more than one. Signatures by definition are things done by the perpetrator for his own psychological satisfaction that were not necessary for the commission of the crime. Hits don't have signatures. People who react out of momentary rage or self preservation don't have signatures. The fact that LE even identified signatures in this case is highly, highly significant and points directly to the motive.

Oh, you think that it is a sexual assault of some case? That means there is a serial killer/rapist on the loose, right? With own signatures?

Then why is Kelsi unafraid of the murderer? She said so. Why did the local sheriff say that he believed and prayed the locals were not in danger? He said so in an interview.

I don’t know what the motives were. All I can say - the murderer is smart enough to stay undetected, and in means a lot.

My post was along the lines - it would be interesting to analyze how the lives of the locals had changed, and then maybe, if BG was local, we could answer the question, cui prodest?

But whoever profited, it was definitely not the landowner, so to me, he is not even the poi. Never was.

You’d think that given the paucity of official information, Ives is a remarkable witness. I am not so sure. To me, Kelsi‘s and the local sheriff’s answers trump the testimony of former CC prosecutor.

I don’t know how to even perceive the podcasts. Is it common practice, to make so many podcasts, where officials participate, during active investigation?

Or is it a cold case? Then ISP has to openly admit it, so that we should stop hoping it will ever be solved, and move on.

(And maybe then ISP should release this tape. During the quarantine, people do have the time to listen to TV shows, they communicate online, and perhaps someone could hear familiar articulation?)

JMO.
 
That's the point, maybe. I wonder, if LE/FBI for the time being put away the tips, which named special people, who LE/FBI thought of completely unlikely being the right BG. Perhaps the drawer with inscription "nearly impossible to be perp" ;) got sorted out not sooner as at the end (Dec 2018?) and not in a chronological order from the start? First the Regist. SOs, then the creepy/violent losers with criminal record, then drawer No. 3 and 4 and 5 and so on. - I would like to know more about their system in following tips.

Not only this, the tipsters could sound like “respected pillars of society”, and could like “psychotic metheads”. These, too, would get into different drawers. Ironically, maybe once in a 1000 times, a psychotic met head might end up a valuable witness, and Delphi could be such case.
 
I think BG had a few things that benefited him in not yet being caught.

He was extremely lucky

He was extremely quick in the commission of the crime and quickly left the scene

He was extremely fortunate that Nobody seems to be able to identify him from the video/audio

He has managed to keep his mouth shut for now anyways

But as for him being smart? He’s smart in the same way that a door nail is imo

Maybe. Perhaps. ISP and Georgian FBI can not do anything with the case. Not for the want of money of trying.


I am thinking that one of their assumptions is grossly wrong.

It could be that he is local.

It could be the accent.

It could be the height.

It could be the DNA.

Or the gait.

Something serious, and it leads them down the wrong path.
 
I have submitted at least 5 tips on this case. I definitely get the impression that police want real information regarding a tip. They do not want tips about what you think if you cannot back it up with any sort of proof or real evidence. So do you have a license plate number or name, etc.?

That is probably why they want tips that have good information and not just pictures of people that such and such thinks is the bridge guy. One thing I have heard many investigators say is that you have to stop watching t.v.

Even though I think facts are important, I still think cases get solved by a combination of evidence(facts) and subjective opinion. It is what separates one detective who does his job completely and another who does not.

Yep and its truly no small task, As they have been inundated with pointless tips from day one in this case.

I can't even imagine the man hours that have went into having to sort thru pointless social media rumors that have been submitted as useful tips.

Unfortunately in many instances people don't even realize that they were doing more harm than good
Yes, they want something very specific like, "I recognize Bridge Guy's voice, he is my ex-boyfriend, and he used to have a jacket exactly like the one Bridge Guy is wearing, but he burned it in a bonfire on the night of February 13, 2017, because, he said, there wasn't enough hydrogen peroxide in the world to get out all of the blood stains."

LE doesn't want their time wasted with anything less specific than that. People who are calling in tips like "I think he has a puppy in his Jacket" or "I think he's from Ohio because of the way he pronounces hill" or "I think he looks like this dude who runs a hot dog stand in Monticello" are wasting valuable resources and preventing this case from being solved.
 
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Maybe. Perhaps. ISP and Georgian FBI can not do anything with the case. Not for the want of money of trying.


I am thinking that one of their assumptions is grossly wrong.

It could be that he is local.

It could be the accent.

It could be the height.

It could be the DNA.

Or the gait.

Something serious, and it leads them down the wrong path.

"Alibi" would be perhaps: Do you think, I could have crossed the bridge with this bad injury, which I will need a surgery for? Told from suspect to LE/FBI, when he was asked, because a witness saw him at the parking lot/at the trail. MOO
 
Agreed. The initial tips, the "tips" based off of weak assumptions and what have you (RSO's, etc.), then they released that stupid sketch in July of '17, and things really got crazy.

I'm of the opinion they should have been more tight-lipped early on about certain things, but early on should have released the sketch released a year ago, and the video should have been put out to the media early.

Too much of what LE have said, and what they have released, has led to wild speculation and sensationalism in this case.

JMO
They could have shown both sketches; they had them at that time, AFAIK. Instead they showed two dead girls, which were already found and NOT missing, on their 6000 billboards. That I do understand less and less. MOO
 
"Alibi" would be perhaps: Do you think, I could have crossed the bridge with this bad injury, which I will need a surgery for? Told from suspect to LE/FBI, when he was asked, because a witness saw him at the parking lot/at the trail. MOO

If it was the injury. I was the first one to think, neuropathic gait, and now I am not so sure.

You are right, an unshakable alibi, and ISP can not understand how the alibi be so strong.

I personally have the feeling that the alibis are created the same way they are broken, with the cellphones. It is probably some technical department job - to ask how one would create such an alibi, and then see if that is the pattern seen. (I assume it was a burner phone, maybe a stolen one, but at a certain point in time, maybe once, it was close to the subject). And maybe the LE did not look at the data dump initially and now it too late, or maybe triangulation is truly impossible. JMO.
 
Good point.

Contrary to popular belief, there are a fair number of serial killers who have no victim preference. They go by opportunity, mostly. Or like Israel Keyes, look for a challenge and plan meticulously for months.

I think a major misconception is that a serial killer will never deviate from the same MO or will always choose the same type of victim. The reality is, they adapt to unique circumstances, they learn from past mistakes, and most importantly, their fantasies change. What MIGHT possibly stay the same is a signature. If there is some aspect of the killing that fulfils a deep psychological need, that could come out as a signature that might link cases. However, this is usually the type of info that investigators do not release to the public.

I always see people posting things like "I couldn't find any other cases where teen girls were kidnapped in tandem." My thinking used to be the same, that the fact there were two girls was highly significant. Now my thoughts have shifted on this subject. IMO if BG has a history of similar assaults we will find it was against victims of different ages. When it comes to sexual offenses most of these perpetrators are very opportunistic in terms of victim selection.
 
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They could have shown both sketches; they had them at that time, AFAIK. Instead they showed two dead girls, which were already found and NOT missing, on their 6000 billboards. That I do understand less and less. MOO
I am so lost on the 2 sketches. These are 3 different people correct? Or is this 2 possible versions of BG? I really don’t understand.
 
I wasn't aware they had both sketches early on.

JMO
At a CrimeCon, 1st Sgt Holeman of the ISP explained the first sketch released was basically a result of a 'committee' of witnesses and took weeks to arrive at. When the second sketch was released last April it was revealed that it was actually drawn just a few days after the murders so it was actually drawn first.
 
I think a major misconception is that a serial killer will never deviate from the same MO or will always choose the same type of victim. The reality is, they adapt to unique circumstances, they learn from past mistakes, and most importantly, their fantasies change. What MIGHT possibly stay the same is a signature. If there is some aspect of the killing that fulfils a deep psychological need, that could come out as a signature that might link cases. However, this is usually the type of info that investigators do not release to the public.

I always see people posting things like "I couldn't find any other cases where teen girls were kidnapped in tandem." My thinking used to be the same, that the fact there were two girls was highly significant. Now my thoughts have shifted on this subject. IMO if BG has a history of similar assaults we will find it was against victims of different ages. When it comes to sexual offenses most of these perpetrators are very opportunistic in terms of victim selection.
Yes, I have a difficult time believing this killer went from a clean history to murder. Even if this was his first time to kill I can't believe he hasn't committed some form of sexual assault or been a peeping tom in the past. I get this guy probably hasn't said anything about this crime and if it was his day off nobody finds his absence suspicious if he lives by himself. But what about a previous victim of such an act? Yet, no tips - that we know of - have led LE in his direction.

If he has killed before or since, his victim type and hunting ground/crime scene might be entirely different. It doesn't help that the database that was originally developed to identify serial offenders, ViCap, has more gaps than data.
Why Can't the FBI Identify Serial Rapists?
 
someone needs to come out and tell, what they found, saw, heard, knew, figured out, experienced, dreamt or read. they need to come out and tell that they know the man in the picture, sketch, recording or video.
I really believe it should be like the old days with national public service announcements to show this man is wanted for the murders of two children, along with a substantial reward.

I miss the newspaper. You could have his face up every day. mOO
 
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