MistyWaters
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It seems Sheriff Leazenby may have touched on it in this article, I know it's RadarOnline but it's the quoting about "DNA testing research" and the GG killer sparking interest in it.Supposedly, just supposedly, they planned to submit it to Parabon for genetic genealogy?
MOO. But Paul Holes was also consulted. And we know what is his interest.
It looks like in the beginning of 2019 they definitely planned to do something. And this is when Ives came back. Instead, there was 2019 April PC, and then, nothing.
DBMIt seems Sheriff Leazenby may have touched on it in this article, I know it's RadarOnline but it's the quoting about "DNA testing research" and the GG killer sparking interest in it.
“We are very much looking into that as a way to move this case forward,” he explained. “We are doing DNA testing research. With 23 and Me and the other places that do it, that is something that has been discussed."
Cops Send Evidence To FBI In Indiana Teens Abigail Williams & Liberty German’s Murder
Was he just talking about CE's blood testing? Was he someone the Sheriff thought was the killer?
When that turned up not to be the case, did whatever results they did get and subsequent interviews lead them to realize they were on the wrong track? If anyone looked like that first BG sketch it was CE....AJMO
Thanks so much for transcribing this!!Your poor fingers!!!Now that I see that we don't have the August 2017 video of 1st Sgt Holeman, here are parts 1 and 2, courtesy of Spellbound. Some of this like Sketch #1 has changed, but some of it like a very brief comparison to the Evansdale murders is still interesting:
PART 1
A: so tell me, obviously you guys see this posted all over online, people want to know , you have all this evidence in this case and still six months later no suspect in custody. What would your answer be to the community?
H: Well, it's not like on TV, you know you see on CSI shows that they solve them in two commercial breaks. So it takes a lot of time, and we want to be very thorough, so we want to take our time, make sure our i's are dotted, t's are crossed. This is a tough case. This is a tough case. There's, I think, alleged a lot of evidence, but really we have very little evidence in this case, so we're working with what we have. We're getting a ton of tips, which helps. But some of those tips are misleading and kind of lead us disarray and get us unfocused from where we're headed. So, but I think, it's not from lack of effort. We continue to use all the detectives from State, Federal, and Local agencies and we use all the resources that are available, and we are going to continue to do that. We're not gonna leave, we're, it's not a Cold Case, because we're still getting infomation. So we are gonna continue to work as hard as we can on this.
A: To have .... you say "little evidence", which you know we are not all .... I'm not a detective, I don't want to put the police ... but when you hear umm yeah the guy's voice, that sketch, you've got, you know, possible other audio and video and all these other tips and maybe then the reward money, is that more than people usually have in a case like this?
H: yeah, I think so. I think we, I said we don't have a lot, but we have more than, uhh, more than enough to make a case; but we're just not getting that break yet, you now. We're still getting closer every day; we're eliminating; we're getting a lot of on people that didn't do it and we eliminate those daily. So like I said before, it's the needle in the haystack and we get those tips on so-and-so and we eliminate them by however we do that, and that just takes some other pieces out of the hay so we can focus, and then eventually we're gonna, it's gonna be there. Umm, so we keep working but/and I think uh of people are misled by some of the FB postings, and social media is not as helpful as some people might think so ...
A: So six months ago you got the phone call, I know you talked about this before, who called you and said first Abby Williams and, you know, Libby German were missing?
H: [2:27] umm, I think I got the.... I heard it on the radio actually, and then I called the Sheriff to see if they needed assistance, and he said 'yeah, we probably are gonna need some help.' That was when they were missing; and then, of course, we got our helicopter involved and we were still on the search phase. And then, obviously, when we located them and knew it was a double homicide then we called in other resources throughout-- the State Police and then the FBI, and I know we have had just a ton of resources and people volunteering to help. Which is good. So that's how that started, you know, now we are here. We're still working, we're still motivated and a lot of people .... it is stressful. It's a very stressful case, obviously, and it's very easy to get emotionally tied, but I think everybody involved is still doing well. We're still motivated, we're still optimistic that we are gonna catch this person that's responsible for this, and we're not letting up or giving in or anything like that. We're stronger than ever. We're actually getting more people involved. So, I think, you know, the time is coming, we're getting closer everyday. I know that's cliche', but we are. We're eliminating people and we're working harder than ever.
A: And within the first 48 hours in the case, so here you are, you hear it on the radio, you step in which, thank God that you guys stepped in so quickly, because look how it ended up happening; whwen it first comes out two missing girls, you think two missing girls in a small town, who would have thought this was ever gonna be the case, but ... What was the investigative work that happened in the first 48 hours, without obviously going into too much detail to put the case in jeopardy?
H: Well, I think you secure the scene, you start doing whatever you can; talk to everybody in the area, we have the crime scene investigators there. Just basically the steps that you would do. Collecting videos throughout the areas, doing things like that. Just, you know, from Ground Zero. That's what you would do in any case, you know.... start talking to people, and get out knocking on doors. We call that an area canvass, so because it's a rural area we had to kind of stretch that out a little bit, and so we did maybe a general area canvass initially and maybe a day or two later we spread that out, come back, make sure. 'Cuz it was February so there was still people on vacation or winter "snowbirds" they call them, and so there were still some houses that we didn't make contact right away, so... But we have now, I mean we continue to do that and now six months later we're still getting new tips on people, so we're following up on those. But also, we have a group of detectives who are assigned to go back to make sure we didn't miss anything, so we re-review things and so we're taking it very serious and we're not gonna let anything slip through the cracks. That's your biggest fear, I think, when you're doing an investigation is something might slip through the cracks and we're not gonna let that happen. We have a team of people that keep going back, reviewing and we're getting there. We're working on it harder than ever and we're gonna continue to work hard.
[stopping at 5.32 for now]
[my fingers are totally numb, which means I constantly hit the wrong keys, so I have to take a break. Will continue as soon as I can]
=============================
PART 2:
A: [5.34] When the people come forward that mentioned, you know, because that sketch behind you is pretty detailed, like we said, and the guy that did it is obviously unbelievably talented because he maybe didn't have a bunch of information but it's unbelievable what they could come up with, right, and make it into this composite sketch that could end up helping crack the case. But, when did those people come forward that said that they saw him possibly near the trail?
H: Well, that's a good question. It's actually compiled, it's not just from one person, so we've had several people say that they saw the person that we identified through the video that we obtained off of Liberty's phone. And we put that out so once people saw that photo then they said "oh I saw that guy; I saw that guy." We have to determine 'is that the guy they saw' first of all, and if it is then let's work together. So, we were getting calls that night, and throughout the last couple months. Some people don't watch the news. Some people don't really follow what's going on . So some of them were sooner-than-later, um. But then we took our time with that. We took our time, we interviewed the composite drawing itself took probably 2/12 to 3 weeks, because we wanted to make sure ourselves that it was exactly right at the people had recalled that. So, um, we have been, I think, getting better tips. Obviously the first photo is pretty hard to see. It's pixelated pretty bad, and this is pretty detailed. We want to make sure that people know this might not look exactly like the person, but it's gonna have similar facial features. So, this is just what the person or persons that we've interviewed over the last several months believe this is what this guy looked like. There's four of us in this room right now. If somebody walked into this room for 30 seconds and left, we'd all have different drawings, but I think the facial features and the major identifiers we would all get right. So, that's what we're hoping, that this gives us a little more guidance, a little more not-as-vague. And it's helping. We are getting better tips. We're still getting some not-so-good tips, I would say. But we're getting a little better tips from this composite drawing.
A: [7.45]. is it a few people kind of , possibly that saw him, or there was more than a couple that called in, right?
H: Yeah. There's ... I would say that's a good statement, there's more than a few that said they saw him. Now, I guess we have to determine there was other people on that trail, or they actually seen that guy is responsible for this, or they seen somebody else that was just out there walking.
A: In time-frame-wise, how long do you think he was out there that day, and have you just kind of stopped by, tried to find if he was planning this, tried to find somebody that was walking off the trail and thought 'hey, this would be a good target", or was he just out there for a little bit?
H: I wish I could tell you that. I have theories, but we, you know, the evidence is pretty... like I said, the evidence doesn't really indicate how long or if he was a traveler or local, and some of that we just speculate on. We can't say he is or isn't. But we just have to go off that evidence that we have; the composite drawing, the video, the audio, and just continue to rely on the community. I still believe somebody knows, somebody knows what happened. For whatever reason, they won't come forward, and we wish they would, obviously.... because this person's probably gonna do this again and I'd hate for that to happen to you or your loved ones. That's the message that I want to get out to the public, that if you do know, for sure you need to let us know so we can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter, or your mother, or sister, or anybody. Could be brother or father as well, so...
[numb finger break time]
A: [9.21] And personality traits in a person like this, and that's I think what people have thought about before and maybe him, if there was just one person, is this the guy that was able to get both of these little girls in the woods and do these, you know, brutally murder them, do you think he possibly has done this before?
H: Uh, he could be, you know, that's, again, just kind of our theory or speculation, we have no evidence that he's done it again. But we do keep that in mind. We do check with other states to see if they have anything close; and obviously the case in Iowa is the closest; but they don't even know the cause of death in that one because they didn't find the victims until later. So, it's hard to compare. But it is similar, but, so, we have taken that into consideration as well, and we have investigated that. We've been in contact with Iowa and they have been in contact with us, and we've discussed that, but nothing else seems to be popping up around the nation that is similar to this. But that doesn't mean he is gonna kill everybody the same way every time, so (shrugs), we don't know.
A: When you walked down and I walked through, that was private property right where the bodies were found. Looking at it logistically from where they were on the bridge and to where their bodies were found, I know we talked about the terrain in the past. I know it's not an easy thing to navigate. Usually you might have to be familiar with the area. I mean, would it have been difficult for the girls to from where they were on the bridge to where they were found?
H: [10:49] Yeah. Absolutely. I think it would be difficult, obviously. They have to go through some pretty steep terrain in a wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it's uh ... and then to cross the creek. The creek, and obviously it's February, it's probably not the warmest . The weather was a warm day that day, but still the water temperature is probably cooler than the air temperature. So yeah, it would have been difficult for .... I mean, I don't think anybody, say on a walk, would walk that way.
A: Walking back that way, obviously I wasn't even there when you guys found all these horrible things at the crime scene. But even just walking through the area you get like a eerie feeling, almost feel sick to your stomach because you think about what Abby & Libby went through, and the families are going through, and the fact that he's still out there. You had to go to the crime scene, and like, I mean you covered, I'm sure, dozens of murder cases but this has probably been one of the hardest for you, having kids, as well. I mean, did you get a sick feeling as soon as you had to go there?
H: Oh yeah. I think everybody -- obviously when two young girls are brutally murdered and you are there to investigate it and see what you have to see and do what you have to do, you become emotionally tied to it and you think about your family and friends. But I think what keeps me going is I try ..... I've said this a million times.... you try to put yourself in these families' shoes and you just can't do it. I can't imagine what they are going through. So I try to put my emotions aside and focus on the evidence and focus on how can we bring justice for Abby & Libby, and for the families. I mean, is that gonna do it if we make an arrest? I think it will help; like anything can bring them back, obviously. I don't think anything can ever make things like they were before the 13th. It's never gonna happen. But we want to try and bring some closure to the families for the girls. And so, even though we are all trained professionals and we've done this many times, it's still hard, it's still hard to shut your brain off at night and go visit with your grandkids or visit with you family and not think about it constantly. So it's difficult, but you know, we are here for a reason. We're here to find out who did this, and that's what we have to keep telling ourselves and keep being re-motivated and motivated to do that. And that's what we're gonna do.
[13.13]
HA! I love to take credit but another WSer, Spellbound did it back on Thread #65. All thanks should go to Spellbound. All I did was copy and paste.Thanks so much for transcribing this!!Your poor fingers!!!
Looking at this from a different perspective, perhaps it prompted him to speak about the case publicly afterwards, which may have been what LE wanted him to do.If that is the case, IMO, it was a mistake to reference that publicly. It would have thrilled the Perp to no end, and enhanced his afterglow.
amateur opinion and speculation
@cujenn81 Thank you very much for all your transcribing posts from the podcasts, which must’ve taken you many, many hours! It’ll also serve as excellent future reference as many of the LE and family statements get forgotten or overlooked as time goes on.
Has anyone seen any interviews of J Kyle Keener the photographer from the Pharos Tribune who was on the scene both the day of the search and the day the girls were found? Besides him writing an article about seeing girls clothes in the Creek and seeing his name on a lot of crime scene photos I have never seen where he was interviewed by LE. He lost his job shortly after the murders but was there long enough to have been interviewed. Also he did a large spread article with photos of bald eagles and their habitats in Logansport and Delphi wooded areas near area creeks, 1 month before the crime, so he may have seen someone creepy hanging around or scouting the area.
Has anyone seen any interviews of J Kyle Keener the photographer from the Pharos Tribune who was on the scene both the day of the search and the day the girls were found? Besides him writing an article about seeing girls clothes in the Creek and seeing his name on a lot of crime scene photos I have never seen where he was interviewed by LE. He lost his job shortly after the murders but was there long enough to have been interviewed. Also he did a large spread article with photos of bald eagles and their habitats in Logansport and Delphi wooded areas near area creeks, 1 month before the crime, so he may have seen someone creepy hanging around or scouting the area.
Yes, good point about how did he get that close to the crime scene? I still would like to hear what he knows. It seems most other people at the scene have been interviewed, why not him?I always assumed JKK was in a media helicopter when he allegedly spotted girls’ clothing in the river shortly after the girls’ bodies were discovered. But when this topic was last discussed another WS member pointed out that was incorrect, he was on the ground, 75 feet away iirc. Since then I’ve wondered how it came to be that he was granted access to the river/crime scene area if the area was immediately secured.
This is one of his photos and it appears the trail was closed during crime scene processing.
View attachment 257261
UPDATED: Official on Delphi double homicide: 'There is somebody out there who did this crime'
Awhile back, I got interested in his perspective and I couldn't find much, I ended up just checking out his bio from over the years.Yes, good point about how did he get that close to the crime scene? I still would like to hear what he knows. It seems most other people at the scene have been interviewed, why not him?
Yes, good point about how did he get that close to the crime scene? I still would like to hear what he knows. It seems most other people at the scene have been interviewed, why not him?
Yes and I heard he liked to be out in wooded areas with his drone taking photos so maybe he caught something or someone on film and doesn’t realize it.I’m guessing he lost his job because of that reckless remark to the press. Interesting idea that he might have seen someone hanging around prior to the murders
They do seem to allow "trusted" news reporters to get close(r), and I would think (?) LE works with them to get whatever narrative they want out there.I always assumed JKK was in a media helicopter when he allegedly spotted girls’ clothing in the river shortly after the girls’ bodies were discovered. But when this topic was last discussed another WS member pointed out that was incorrect, he was on the ground, 75 feet away iirc. Since then I’ve wondered how it came to be that he was granted access to the river/crime scene area if the area was immediately secured.
This is one of his photos and it appears the trail was closed during crime scene processing.
View attachment 257261
UPDATED: Official on Delphi double homicide: 'There is somebody out there who did this crime'
75 yards, not feet. Is this to say he allegedly viewed the clothing from the bridge only after the bodies were found? The people he photographed, 2 in one photo, 3 in another, along with others who crossed the bridge that morning didn’t see anything? That’s an odd coincidence if the clothing in the river suddenly became visible only after the bodies were found, given the murders occurred the day before. I’m not totally convinced he saw anything. JMO
*****
Source:
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #31
copy of post 937 (thanks to Jax49)
Here is a link to the photographer's comment regarding seeing girls clothing in Deer Creek. And the comment for those who don't do FB. BBM
J Kyle Keener
IT HAS BEEN A TRAGIC DAY IN CARROLL COUNTY, INDIANA, the scene of a double murder. One thing they never teach you in journalism school is how creepy it feels to have to cover a homicide. For several hours I photographed the search for two missing 13-year-old girls. This type of endeavor is stressful for the searchers, the first responders and also the media at the scene. Detectives found the bodies of two missing teens near a rural hiking trail below the abandoned Monon high railroad bridge. The bridge itself in incredibly beautiful making it difficult to witness a horrific murder scene so nearby. From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby. To walk in a place that a murderer had walked only a handful of hours earlier is extremely upsetting, but as journalists it is part of the business that simply needs done to tell the news of our area. Photos by J. Kyle Keener / Pharos-Tribune copyright 2017
I remember the first time I read his statement and I thought 75 yards was a pretty good distance and I couldn’t figure how he could possibly tell the clothes were girls’ clothes from that distance. I wondered too if the report was legitimate.