Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[Charlot123]

Any tip mentioning a critical fact about the crime that LE had purposely held out of public knowledge would, I'm sure, be flagged by Pyramid, the program they use for sorting and assigning priority to incoming tips.

But because anybody could guess at the murder weapon or other crime scene circumstances and potentially be correct, they are not assigning high priority to these tips if they don't also include information about the identity of the person on the bridge or, lacking that, the person's connection to Delphi.

Now, the program is very interesting. I wonder about the percentage of the false-negatives its algorithm generates, though.

What about people manning the phone? What if one of them has personal interest in the case? Is there a chance to “kill” a good tip before it is fed into the program?

 

[Charlot123]

MHO...Lack of forensic evidence of the killer's physical presence at the crime scene.

Just MOO - I often think that there was a tip too good to overlook, but for some very valid and obvious reason the tipster can not testify. But from that tip it became obvious that someone providing the alibi for the poi does not believe own story. Knows the truth. So the police hopes that someone’s conscience will awaken?But it is not happening either because the person decided that the status quo is “convenient”, or because someone is more afraid of the perpetrator than of long-term incarceration. JMO, no facts to prove.

 

[JDough]

The other possibility is the actual answer...there were no people in the proximity of the bridge

With all due respect; how can you definitively state this? Were you there that day? Not months/years later, but on February 13, 2017?

We all know what your beliefs are, you've been very vocal about them. Because of the fact there were very few (if any) visitors on the day you were at MHB, it appears you believe (statistically) that was the case the day the girls were abducted and murdered. Unless, of course, you (or anyone else on this thread) were there THAT DAY, we really have no way of knowing what the "actual answer" is. It stands to reason that there would not be witness accounts/descriptions if this were true. Perhaps a local can weigh in on what the park was like before and after?

 

[mimimarge]

We’re seeking the public’s help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS/DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of County Road 300 North next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between the hours of noon to five on February 14th, 2017 [Note: It has been updated that the date was misspoken- it should be February 13th, not 14th].

If you were parked there or know who was parked there, please contact the officers at the command post at The Delphi City Building.

2019 Press Conference , DC

Why???? Thoughts?
What value does this hold?
Is this the killer? Is it a witness?
It was brought up for a reason.

My opinions and my observations.

I think that either
1. The person driving is an unwitting accomplice
2. The person driving is BG and that puts the POI at the crime scene.

I am not sure why LE doesn't say what kind of vehicle. I definitely think that they know. Maybe on the off chance that the driver was the unwitting accomplice.

 

[mimimarge]

Watching the video clip and listening to his voice he seems to have a distinctive voice. That coupled with his choice of words struck me as something that should stand out in someones memory if they ever had a chance to talk to this man in any length at all. The way he said, "guys...go down the hill" versus "girls..go down the hill" Probably means this is a word he uses a lot in normal everyday conversations sort of a go to word if you will. Everyone has a go to word or an oddity that they can't help but repeat in sentences it forms a pattern of speech for most everyone. I don't know if that will help to identify him but I figured it couldn't hurt to put it out there. Of course this all just my opinion.

The part about the "guys" ... He has a sibilant S. This is something that people can pick up on.
Like guice instead of guize

 

[somequestions]

"We are one tip away from success," Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter told "Good Morning America" in an interview airing Wednesday.
Authorities have not released information about how the girls died, but Carter said he believes the killer is hiding within the close-knit Delphi community. He said someone knows who the killer is but is afraid to come forward.

"Somebody that commits a horrific crime like this against two little girls probably has shown signs of violence in the past … he didn't just all of a sudden decide to do this one day," Carter said.
Carter said he believes the killer lives in, works in or frequents the Delphi area, but he declined to elaborate on why he believes that.
Carter said the case keeps him up at night.

"We're going to continue to push and push and push until we get that final piece of information," he said. "We know significantly more [information], but we're not going to talk about that because the only other person who knows that is the killer."

These are all statements That DC made in an interview given to Good Morning America in May of 2019.

I know that there are so many varying opinions on whether or not the suspect is actually known to the police.
When I read these things, I can't help but believe that do know..but there is something that prevents them from making the arrest.
But what?
What is it? Why can't they take this guy into custody.
This case , I really believe, haunts me more than any other.
There HAS to be resolution, and soon.

My opinions and my observations.

Then you think that the "one tip" Carter is referring to is something to do with evidence needed to arrest and charge this person(s) with murder? Once they get that one piece of evidence they need then they can make an arrest?

I always thought police have no clue who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. I think they have some forensic evidence but have no person to connect it to. In my opinion, the "one tip" is getting the correct name and address of the person(s) who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

I do not think police know who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German any more today than they did back on February 13, 2017. That may change in the future, but as of today that is what I think.

I am not a lawyer, but my thoughts were that police only need suspicion to make an arrest. Then they can hold you for a while, but are limited by a certain time(say a few days) before they have to charge you with something or let you go. Since they do not like to let people go, they do their best to protect the integrity of the information they have so that the person can be charged by the prosecuting attorney.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think that either
1. The person driving is an unwitting accomplice
2. The person driving is BG and that puts the POI at the crime scene.

I am not sure why LE doesn't say what kind of vehicle. I definitely think that they know. Maybe on the off chance that the driver was the unwitting accomplice.

1. I think, the driver wasn't "unwitting" and drove with BG before, helping him to escape from a similar crime scene. Probably he was looking like sketch #1, if sketch #2 is BG. MOO of course.

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

ABC News February 2020:

The sheriff said he thinks the killer has a connection to Delphi, "whether it's an individual that previously lived in our community and knows the area where the girls were located very well, or possibly is still in our community."

Carter also believes the killer has a connection to Delphi, and ABC News contributor and former FBI agent Brad Garrett agrees, noting that the hiking trail is probably too remote to attract outsiders.

"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

And since the suspect may be a local, he could have already been interviewed when investigators canvassed those in town, Garrett said.

I am always looking for statements and articles that I may have missed. This is one of them.

It seems that not only ISP believe the killer to be from or quite familiar with Delphi, but the FBI think so as well.

My opinions and my observations .

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

ABC News article, Dated February 2020:

I have to include this. I do hope that this information is not redundant.

First bit:
Carter said that he believes that since the killer's image and voice were publicized, and they have not been able to identify a suspect, someone knows who he is but is keeping quiet because of "extreme fear."

Second Bit:
"There is obviously someone withholding information," added Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. "It could very well be somewhere along the lines someone was even threatened not to reveal the identity of the killer."


My thoughts on this:
And this is highly speculative of me to say, so I pray that I am not breaking the rules!
Somewhere within the town, there has been talk that a specific person has revealed that they know the killers identity.
When questioned by officials, they have either declined to say anything at all, or they have lied because they fear for their safety.

Can you imagine HOW maddening it must be for the police to be within touching distance of a killer that they cannot lay hands on because someone is not able to share what they know?

I believe that a person within the community holds they key,but they are paralyzed with fear every single day. The guilt and the terror must be such a heavy burden to shoulder!

I must say that the entire second part of my post is highly speculative, but based on the statements made by LE.

My opinions and my observations.

 

[Falling Down]

With all due respect; how can you definitively state this? Were you there that day? Not months/years later, but on February 13, 2017?

We all know what your beliefs are, you've been very vocal about them. Because of the fact there were very few (if any) visitors on the day you were at MHB, it appears you believe (statistically) that was the case the day the girls were abducted and murdered. Unless, of course, you (or anyone else on this thread) were there THAT DAY, we really have no way of knowing what the "actual answer" is. It stands to reason that there would not be witness accounts/descriptions if this were true. Perhaps a local can weigh in on what the park was like before and after?

I'll back up AD on his observations.

I've seen pictures, video, and accounts of folks' visits to that bridge area, before and after the murders. Going back to 2006. It's downright desolate, even on C.R. 300, per my own observations on a nice Summer day in 2017.

I don't believe for a minute there were a lot of people there on Feb. 13th, 2017, which is what BG was counting on.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

ABC News February 2020:

The sheriff said he thinks the killer has a connection to Delphi, "whether it's an individual that previously lived in our community and knows the area where the girls were located very well, or possibly is still in our community."

Carter also believes the killer has a connection to Delphi, and ABC News contributor and former FBI agent Brad Garrett agrees, noting that the hiking trail is probably too remote to attract outsiders.

"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

And since the suspect may be a local, he could have already been interviewed when investigators canvassed those in town, Garrett said.

I am always looking for statements and articles that I may have missed. This is one of them.

It seems that not only ISP believe the killer to be from or quite familiar with Delphi, but the FBI think so as well.

My opinions and my observations .

I believe all of that to be true.

No random person stumbles upon the MHB trail and starts wandering around. It just doesn't work like that.

It's difficult enough to drive to and find, I know because I went there and found out for myself. Google flakes out right at the turn off, because it hasn't been updated since 2008, confirmed on Street View. There's not even a sign for Delphi on 25 near there as you're heading south.

it's one of those "you either know it or you don't", deals. Very few people would have known about how to get to the bridge before the murders, mostly locals (say within 20 miles or so), and outside of that I'm sure the number of people who would know drops right off. I'd imagine the bridge area was known more for the creek by outsiders before the murders, anyway, by kayakers and anglers. The bridge was probably a secondary part of what some people knew the creek for.

JMO

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

I believe all of that to be true.

No random person stumbles upon the MHB trail and starts wandering around. It just doesn't work like that.

It's difficult enough to drive to and find, I know because I went there and found out for myself. Google flakes out right at the turn off, because it hasn't been updated since 2008, confirmed on Street View. There's not even a sign for Delphi on 25 near there as you're heading south.

it's one of those "you either know it or you don't", deals. Very few people would have known about how to get to the bridge before the murders, mostly locals (say within 20 miles or so), and outside of that I'm sure the number of people who would know drops right off. I'd imagine the bridge area was known more for the creek by outsiders before the murders, anyway, by kayakers and anglers. The bridge was probably a secondary part of what some people knew the creek for.

JMO

This is fantastic information.
You have experienced firsthand what the area encompasses and how difficult;t it is to access even WITH maps, etc.
It proves , to me at least, that this person is local to the area.(or was )
Thank you for sharing!

My opinion and my observations.

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

Does anyone have a list of the names of authorities and officials that have worked or that are working the Delphi case?
Am I allowed to ask that?
Should I be asking for only their initials?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The killer may very well be local, but the fact that the MHB and the trails are difficult to find, and it appears the killer was familiar with them, in my opinion doesn’t necessarily mean the killer has to be local. There are beaches and mountain towns and trails that I don’t live anywhere near that I am very familiar with because I’ve been there multiple times on vacations or day trips. Nobody in these places knows me and a picture of me on a trail there would mean nothing to the locals. I just don’t want LE to completely ignore the possibility that the killer lives no where near Delphi.

 

[Yemelyan]

Does anyone have a list of the names of authorities and officials that have worked or that are working the Delphi case?
Am I allowed to ask that?
Should I be asking for only their initials?

You would never be able to get a complete list. I guarantee you that some of the investigators and consultants who've had the most significant impact on this case have never once been named in the press. Counting the FBI and the GBI who reviewed the case for the ISP, I'd guess there are well over 100 people on this list and that's NOT even counting people present during the active search. Most of them are not local to Delphi.

 

[JnRyan]

There is this article from last year, updated on 20 May 2019, almost a month after the PC. Sgt. Riley talks about the vehicle and also about the killer being local. (I wish they had said, 'local or familiar with the area', because this could be someone who didn't even live in the county at the time of the murders and still may not live there.)
ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

I wonder why we have heard no more requests about the vehicle from LE?

 

[cujenn81]

I don't agree with the logic that BG must be local because the bridge area is hard to find. While that may be true, it is my understanding that the trails are publicized by the Delphi Chamber of Commerce as a selling point to potential tourists. If the trails are advertised all over downtown Delphi, one could easily ask any local how to find them. Unlikely as it may be, it's possible that some sicko learned about the trails by pure happenstance and then became familiar with the area.

As @StarryStarryNight mentioned, I don't want LE to get tunnel vision on this issue.

 

[stattlich1]

Well, LE says they think the killer to be from Delphi, OR visit Delphi regularly, OR used to live in Delphi.

I believe 'em.

Also, I speculate the 'possible' tipster may be a criminal themselves, and simply can not get involved so as to save his/her own hide from imprisonment. NOT necessarily involved in the Abby and Libby murders, but having some other crime in his/her history.

Being blackmailed by BG.....you rat me out, I'm gonna expose YOU!

I speculate the actual killer planted evidence that pointed to some other individual, or individuals, thus leading LE down a wrong path.

I also speculate more than one person involved in this thing, but not necessarily directly involved in the murders.

 

[Charlot123]

With all due respect; how can you definitively state this? Were you there that day? Not months/years later, but on February 13, 2017?

We all know what your beliefs are, you've been very vocal about them. Because of the fact there were very few (if any) visitors on the day you were at MHB, it appears you believe (statistically) that was the case the day the girls were abducted and murdered. Unless, of course, you (or anyone else on this thread) were there THAT DAY, we really have no way of knowing what the "actual answer" is. It stands to reason that there would not be witness accounts/descriptions if this were true. Perhaps a local can weigh in on what the park was like before and after?

Agree. I do not remember when @Awsi Dooger visited Delphi (I think his post was from 2019). However, lots of things might have happened since February 2017 that made MHB more abandoned.

1) the murder made the locals more scared. If the police is stating that the person is local, and the theory of SK has not been ruled out, and the perp was bold enough to abduct two strong teenagers, who says that he won’t repeat it? So I think people are avoiding the place. MHB, the trails, the forest, everything.

2) I came to the conclusion that it was a local meth trading place. I don’t know how true, but if so, it must have been popular. The murders attracted the police’s attention to MHS, so I assume, all dealers moved somewhere else.

3) no parent is allowing the kid to even come close to it, this I am sure of.

4) they tore down old CPS building, that could be another “hangout”.

Another thought - has anyone ever thought how “non-local tourists” are viewed by the locals? Especially if they are men? If I were a local, I’d either hide during someone’s “pilgrimage”, or walk around with five loaded guns.

 

[Charlot123]

I think that either
1. The person driving is an unwitting accomplice
2. The person driving is BG and that puts the POI at the crime scene.

I am not sure why LE doesn't say what kind of vehicle. I definitely think that they know. Maybe on the off chance that the driver was the unwitting accomplice.

I think that either the driver, or the passenger was, for some reason, present at the crime scene. Maybe not as the perpetrator. Maybe he is the YBG who is “responsible”, as DC has said. Or someone covering up for him.

I think it became a strange vicious circle, and maybe it is exactly the “twist” mentioned by TL. Some people were marginally involved, but created the situation prompting the killer to act. And now there is the circle of fear, where the killer is afraid for own life, someone else is afraid for the implication of “being there”, and other people are afraid for someone else. I suspect there are at least two people covering up, and I sometimes wonder if they themselves are on the verge of madness because of the emotional pressure.

I believe there were at least two people involved, and hence, there are at least two potential witnesses.

Why are they keeping silent? MOO - I think if the victims were 7 or 8, one of them would have already opened up. It is very hard for a killer to imagine a cover-up story if he killed children.

Not so with teenagers, especially if they look tall and more adult than their age. I am positive that the killer created the story that someone believed.

It is even easier if the victims are young women.