Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[BNA]

ABC News February 2020:



"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

That statement strikes me as naive. And, it seems to me that Tobe is not much of a trail walker.

As a seasoned trail walker, I say with confidence that all one needs to do is walk a trail once to remember it generally, and remember it specifically if it has features such as the MHT. So, I discount that observation.

It seems to me that it could have been somebody that walked the trail once, even many years ago.

It also could very well be somebody who never walked this specific trail before, but who is a trail walker with experience exploring new trails....and experience walking across bridges. Heck, the kids in Stand By Me did that.....granted that was almost a disaster but it was a fictional adaptation.

 

[stattlich1]

As a seasoned trail walker, I say with confidence that all one needs to do is walk a trail once to remember it generally, and remember it specifically if it has features such as the MHT. So, I discount that observation.

It seems to me that it could have been somebody that walked the trail once, even many years ago.

ABC News February 2020:

"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

I understand your post, but I speculate there are some things in the wooded area around the trail that may be referred to in this quote, things that a person on the trail would not have seen, or known about.

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

Agree. I do not remember when @Awsi Dooger visited Delphi (I think his post was from 2019). However, lots of things might have happened since February 2017 that made MHB more abandoned.

1) the murder made the locals more scared. If the police is stating that the person is local, and the theory of SK has not been ruled out, and the perp was bold enough to abduct two strong teenagers, who says that he won’t repeat it? So I think people are avoiding the place. MHB, the trails, the forest, everything.

2) I came to the conclusion that it was a local meth trading place. I don’t know how true, but if so, it must have been popular. The murders attracted the police’s attention to MHS, so I assume, all dealers moved somewhere else.

3) no parent is allowing the kid to even come close to it, this I am sure of.

4) they tore down old CPS building, that could be another “hangout”.

Another thought - has anyone ever thought how “non-local tourists” are viewed by the locals? Especially if they are men? If I were a local, I’d either hide during someone’s “pilgrimage”, or walk around with five loaded guns.

I don't think the point was that it feels abandoned as much as it is quite difficult to find for an outsider.

My opinion and my observation.

I have edited , to correct my spellcheck's auto-correct!

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

ABC News February 2020:

"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

I understand your post, but I speculate there are some things in the wooded area around the trail that may be referred to in this quote, things that a person on the trail would not have seen, or known about.

I agree, I was actually getting ready to state a similar opinion.
TL seems to be alluding to the fact that within the CS there are "things" or certain places that could only be known by the killer if he was familiar to the specific area. Not simply a situation where a person has come through a time or two or gleaned information from a map.

I am also an avid hiker. Being such, I guarantee that there are nooks and crannies, even artifacts that I am aware of that someone from outside of the area would never be aware of.

My opinions and my observations.

 

[JnRyan]

I tend to believe this killer has been to the trails in the past. My logic is how would he have known how to get from that end of the bridge to the cemetery. I believe it is likely he lived in the area in the past OR visited a relative in the area in the past and was familiar with the trails. That is my MOST likely scenario.

To be sure, I have considered the possibility that the killer is someone who is comfortable in such an outdoor environment. And we are not talking about the Everglades or the Shenandoah National Forest here - i.e., it is a relatively small area. Someone who has done a great deal of hunting, been in or currently a member of the Army or Marine Corps or played paintball extensively is more comfortable than the average person in a wooded environment just for a few examples. And my logic above that he likely would not have known how to get from that end of the bridge to the cemetery? He wouldn't necessarily have to know that in advance. If he planned to do what he was going to do someplace else and the girls tried to run away from him he merely followed them. IOW, he didn't know about that way out, but the girls did. That he made it to the area of the cemetery - if that is the way he left the crime scene - could have been just a matter of luck. And he stayed just inside the treeline till he got back to the trail.

All that said, I believe this killer has a past history with the trails and I further believe this could have been prior to high school and no one in area immediately recognizes him now. But I'm not stuck on it as 100% the only scenario.

 

[BNA]

ABC News February 2020:



"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

That statement strikes me as naive. And, it seems to me that Tobe is not much of a trail walker.

As a seasoned trail walker, I say with confidence that all one needs to do is walk a trail once to remember it generally, and remember it specifically if it has features such as the MHT. So, I discount that observation.

It seems to me that it could have been somebody that walked the trail once, even many years ago.

It also could very well be somebody who never walked this specific trail before, but who is a trail walker with experience exploring new trails....and experience walking across bridges. Heck, the kids in Stand By Me did that.....granted that was almost a disaster but it was a fictional adaptation.

ABC News February 2020:

"Unless someone absolutely somehow studied that [trail] in great depth, they would not know specifically where certain things were," added the sheriff.

I understand your post, but I speculate there are some things in the wooded area around the trail that may be referred to in this quote, things that a person on the trail would not have seen, or known about.

I agree, I was actually getting ready to state a similar opinion.
TL seems to be alluding to the fact that within the CS there are "things" or certain places that could only be known by the killer if he was familiar to the specific area. Not simply a situation where a person has come through a time or two or gleaned information from a map.

I am also an avid hiker. Being such, I guarantee that there are nooks and crannies, even artifacts that I am aware of that someone from outside of the area would never be aware of.

My opinions and my observations.

Certainly there are things hidden away in very many wooded areas, especially those that had past use in some sort of industry. My hiking area is a state forest that was once logged to the ground in some places and strip mined in others. There are may things I have noticed off trail when the leaves are off the trees, even at a good distance from the trail.

It was February, and he may have hiked in the winter months at some time in the past. He could have known of places, or simply seen them here for the first time.

I don't think the possibiity should be easily discounted.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Here's a wild card speculation.
Who would know how to detect sounds in the woods and pull off a complicated maneuver?
Army soldiers are taught these skills.
There is a training facility approx. 2 hours from Delphi - Camp Atterbury.
I wonder if they have ever used the area surrounding Monon High Bridge for exercises?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[JnRyan]

Here's a wild card speculation.
Who would know how to detect sounds in the woods and pull off a complicated maneuver?
Army soldiers are taught these skills.
There is a training facility approx. 2 hours from Delphi - Camp Atterbury.
I wonder if they have ever used the area surrounding Monon High Bridge for exercises?

Amateur opinion and speculation

Camp Atterbury, along with Camp Shelby in MS, trains National Guard before deploying overseas. With over 32,000 acres, they likely have more available to the units on site than they would have at the High Bridge area. While some DoD units have used off base areas, these places such as in NC, are far larger in acreage than the trails. I don't see the NG going 2 hours to an area as small as this when they have a far larger area where they are located.

Now, I can imagine the area being used by non-DoD to train SWAT, SAR and other civilian groups. I've been in areas like this when owners of SAR dogs are conducting their periodic reevaluations.

 

[somequestions]

I don't agree with the logic that BG must be local because the bridge area is hard to find. While that may be true, it is my understanding that the trails are publicized by the Delphi Chamber of Commerce as a selling point to potential tourists. If the trails are advertised all over downtown Delphi, one could easily ask any local how to find them. Unlikely as it may be, it's possible that some sicko learned about the trails by pure happenstance and then became familiar with the area.

As @StarryStarryNight mentioned, I don't want LE to get tunnel vision on this issue.

It is interesting when you look at the case of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale, Iowa. One of the aspects that makes the investigators in that case think it must be a local is where the bodies were found, Seven Bridges Wildlife area. Over 8 years later I think they still think it is a local who committed that crime.

I could barely find Seven Bridges Wildlife area on a google map. So I understand why so many people tend to think the killer in this case is most likely a local from the Delphi, Indiana area. From a statistical perspective it makes sense.

I think human nature is that when you do not know something you go towards what is most likely. I do not think we will know the truth until someone is arrested and convicted.

How do we know this bridge guy is not some lonely man who visits obscure trail and wildlife areas?

 

[Charlot123]

That statement strikes me as naive. And, it seems to me that Tobe is not much of a trail walker.

As a seasoned trail walker, I say with confidence that all one needs to do is walk a trail once to remember it generally, and remember it specifically if it has features such as the MHT. So, I discount that observation.

It seems to me that it could have been somebody that walked the trail once, even many years ago.

It also could very well be somebody who never walked this specific trail before, but who is a trail walker with experience exploring new trails....and experience walking across bridges. Heck, the kids in Stand By Me did that.....granted that was almost a disaster but it was a fictional adaptation.

I don’t think LE means the trail alone. I think there might be interesting details around MHB yet not known to the public. My personal theory - maybe some bomb shelters from the 60es, or something along those lines. Some caves, possibly. Something one would not find out from one hike. But one was very likely aware of as a child living here.

Kids find unusual spaces. Kids don’t follow the trails. Kids build forts in the forests. Kids know the secret “ins and outs”.

Maybe it had to do with the properties around. If you merely follow a trail, you don’t know who owns the neighboring land; even less, what kind of people they are. Maybe that person’s behavior indicated he knew about the people, or even the division of the properties.

I think it is the typical “the Devil is in the detail” situation, and LE know the details that bespeak someone local, or very much connected.

 

[Charlot123]

Do we (the US) have good facial recognition systems? Not something like iPhone uses, but better?

I can imagine that BG may not even use iPhone facial recognition. But the banks? All cameras at ATMs from February of 2017?

Even these stupid cruise ships, there are tons of them, local, everywhere. They won’t let you in without a photo. COVID-no COVID, take off the mask and smile. Airports, too. Plenty of cameras there.

I can’t believe that in a country with cameras, one can not find someone whose photo exists.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Do we (the US) have good facial recognition systems? Not something like iPhone uses, but better?

I can imagine that BG may not even use iPhone facial recognition. But the banks? All cameras at ATMs from February of 2017?

Even these stupid cruise ships, there are tons of them, local, everywhere. They won’t let you in without a photo. COVID-no COVID, take off the mask and smile. Airports, too. Plenty of cameras there.

I can’t believe that in a country with cameras, one can not find someone whose photo exists.

If you are asking why facial recognition hasn’t been used to identify BG, I would imagine it’s because the image is so bad.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Here's a wild card speculation.
Who would know how to detect sounds in the woods and pull off a complicated maneuver?
Army soldiers are taught these skills.
There is a training facility approx. 2 hours from Delphi - Camp Atterbury.
I wonder if they have ever used the area surrounding Monon High Bridge for exercises?

Amateur opinion and speculation

IMO, it would be possible for a smart perpetrator to make himself educated on all areas of his special interests. If he had to learn about "detecting sounds and pulling off a maneuver", he would have found someone, who he could have asked. One friend in the military would have been enough; maybe he has even more friends there and even in higher range. Or he found a textbook with corresponding content. Or he did both: reading plus asking questions on occasions. If he was known as an alert mind to his aquaintances/friends, nobody would have wondered a lot. There are people, who love to learn something of every theme, you can imagine, so they are able, to have any kind of conversation and never have to show nakedness of ignorance.

There maybe a connection to "military", but I think, he hadn't to be one of them. And I think, he hasn't to be a Delphian at all. Of course, LE maybe have another reason to think this way, but I have doubts. MOO

 

[JnRyan]

I think human nature is that when you do not know something you go towards what is most likely. I do not think we will know the truth until someone is arrested and convicted.

There's a thought that had not occurred to me in this case until now. And that may it.

What muddies the water for me is that LE had billboards all over the USA with the killer's picture from the video. Of course, now we have a new direction.

 

[Justice101]

Interesting discussions finding here today.

To me, the familiarity of the killer to the layout screams that he's explored the area on foot and possibly on googlemaps, etc.

1) He apparently knows that the end of the bridge is a dead end.

2) He knows that when he is standing on the north end of the bridge, he can see unblocked straight lines of sight in both directions: a) Back behind him on trail looking for witnesses and b) looking forward to see the girls once the girls reached the far end of the bridge and were trapped.

3) He knows exactly where to take them down the hill.

4) He apparently knows they can cross the creek to get to a hidden low area to have privacy with muffled seclusion to commit this horrible crime.

5) He knows he can escape back out thru the cemetery (or parallel the road alongside the woods) and therefore not be seen walking back on the trail.

To me, this guy is very calculating and reasonably "smart". He knows this area very well.

 

[sunshineray]

There is this article from last year, updated on 20 May 2019, almost a month after the PC. Sgt. Riley talks about the vehicle and also about the killer being local. (I wish they had said, 'local or familiar with the area', because this could be someone who didn't even live in the county at the time of the murders and still may not live there.)
ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

I wonder why we have heard no more requests about the vehicle from LE?

I wonder if the change in strategy mentioned in the April 2019 PC, along with the give us time, be patient, we're just starting, meant that a whole can of worms was opened when they realized the correct path. Was a kind of Pandora's box uncovered, full of tricky connections rooted back to BG? Maybe it's the depth of the investigation that's taking so long, not the lack of direction?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Do we (the US) have good facial recognition systems? Not something like iPhone uses, but better?

I can imagine that BG may not even use iPhone facial recognition. But the banks? All cameras at ATMs from February of 2017?

Even these stupid cruise ships, there are tons of them, local, everywhere. They won’t let you in without a photo. COVID-no COVID, take off the mask and smile. Airports, too. Plenty of cameras there.

I can’t believe that in a country with cameras, one can not find someone whose photo exists.

Oh, I think, if they would search with sketch #2, they would have their perp already perhaps. Certainly a lot of photos are out there in the big, wide (internet-) world. Though if the person would wear some headgear (ie. baseball cap) or glasses or a beard, then it would be more difficult. With the blurry video is rather nothing to win, IMO.
When they finally have their killer and LE would "decorate" him with his complete original bridge-outfit, maybe we were able to recognize, that it is this person. (They wouldn't do that, what a pity. I fear, I will never learn, what the white thing is. )

 

[sunshineray]

It is interesting when you look at the case of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale, Iowa. One of the aspects that makes the investigators in that case think it must be a local is where the bodies were found, Seven Bridges Wildlife area. Over 8 years later I think they still think it is a local who committed that crime.

I could barely find Seven Bridges Wildlife area on a google map. So I understand why so many people tend to think the killer in this case is most likely a local from the Delphi, Indiana area. From a statistical perspective it makes sense.

I think human nature is that when you do not know something you go towards what is most likely. I do not think we will know the truth until someone is arrested and convicted.

How do we know this bridge guy is not some lonely man who visits obscure trail and wildlife areas?

Or on another hand, bridge guy could have been walking the trails angry looking for someone in particular he knows only to come upon two innocent girls, unfortunate and in his angry path. There really are many possible senarios as to why this killer was there that day. Praying LE knows the one.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

There's a thought that had not occurred to me in this case until now. And that may it.

What muddies the water for me is that LE had billboards all over the USA with the killer's picture from the video. Of course, now we have a new direction.

Would have been more meaningful, if they had used sketch #1 and sketch #2 plus the video-still, no photo of the victims (was quite superfluous in my mind). The girls weren't missing and it wasn't searched for them, so: why photos? MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Would have been more meaningful, if they had used sketch #1 and sketch #2 plus the video-still, no photo of the victims (was quite superfluous in my mind). The girls weren't missing and it wasn't searched for them, so: why photos? MOO

Because LE wanted to pull on a tipster's heartstrings and get them to put aside all doubts and excuses and come forward with identifying information that they knew.