Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[Charlot123]

Sometimes coincidences are just that, coincidences. They only seem to matter when they actually mean something. It is like the Delphi calendar date of Abigail Williams and Liberty German's murders when read backwards 2-13-17 comes out as the date Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins were kidnapped in Evansdale, Iowa, 7-13-12.

Does it mean anything? That is up to you to decide.

It is just my intuition that the perp suffers from some OCD. Not too serious to stand out, but perhaps enough to explain his planning style. He is a perfectionist. The same way, I thought that maybe 2-13-17 is a combo of prime numbers, so maybe at a certain time of his life, the perp liked math. Not the other date, but I am not 100% sure he was involved in Evansdale.

 

[JimmyWells]

Why were you looking at a map from a movie released in 1991?

Oh boy!

 

[minazoe]

isn't everyone watching scary movies right now? its almost Halloween...
mOO

 

[Charlot123]

Oh boy!

And honestly, this is a question.
A person of 16-25 would probably play a video game instead, or even if a video, something more modern, with 3D graphics, so my opinion is, a) you are not in that group, b) you think the perpetrator is older.
Unless the person had a “movie night” with the parents?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I have no idea what is being talked about here...

 

[drama_farmer]

Sometimes coincidences are just that, coincidences. They only seem to matter when they actually mean something. It is like the Delphi calendar date of Abigail Williams and Liberty German's murders when read backwards 2-13-17 comes out as the date Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins were kidnapped in Evansdale, Iowa, 7-13-12.

Does it mean anything? That is up to you to decide.

But, those two dates are NOT mirrors of each other. Bit of a stretch to see a "2" as a "12" imo

 

[Charlot123]

I have no idea what is being talked about here...

I just think that a young person would not be “inspired” by the “Silence of the Lambs” because the movie is old and intentionally dreary, no special effects, and young generation is more visual; they probably won’t watch the movie even, unless with the parents. MOO. So the perp is on the older end of the age group, 35 and up if the theory is right.
ETA: there might be an exception. John Lennon is still a cult figure. His killer was obsessed by Jodie Foster. Maybe someone young and interested in John Lennon watched a movie with her because of this connection? But it is a stretch.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Does that mean ISP is close to making an arrest?

I don't think so. But possibly we learn of some new details, which will help the investigation? I'm expecting it.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I am wondering if he is preoccupied with numbers, not as much dates as numbers. but this is my own feeling.

bbm
^^^^ This maybe. IMO

 

[Justice101]

In isolation....interesting "coincidence". Add this "coincidence" to the profile and looks of the teens, the outdoor circumstances, and whatever else we can connect....and YES. I'd say this is quite relevant. Quite.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Everything can't be relevant. It just can't.

As opposed to people like us on a message board knowing very little about the evidence gathered, real detectives and real investigators take the facts and evidence and use that to lead them towards the perpetrator. Facts come first and constructing new theories out of coincidences are more suitable for murder mystery novels.

Using the scientific method has worked the best at solving such crimes ever since the creation of the scientific/logical/systematic crime investigation method was developed in England in the mid 1800s.

IMO, based on history, they'll solve a lot more crimes and waste a lot less time of investigators following the facts and not following up on wild goose chases.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have followed Abby and Libby since day 1 and to say that I am dismayed that we are still trying to find their killer would be an understatement.

MOO

I believe that BG's close family may either be aware that of what he has done or certainly suspects that he may be the killer. I have thought this very early on.

I had hoped that during this whole Covid nightmare that something would pop. Being in close quarters, lockdowns, quarantines, etc., might jog someone in his circle to get out from under and take their suspicions to LE.

Everyone is under stress and I was really hoping that someone, somewhere would finally let something slip or that a significant "other" would do what needs to be done and "out" this person.

Sigh....but we still wait.

MOO

IF BG's close family knows since 2017 or 2018, Covid in 2020 might have had no more influence on their feeling. Until the outbreak of the pandemic they had time to digest their shock and shame and put it away into the furthest corner of their consciousness. Maybe, they fear another killing some day in the future and they only are hoping, he won't do it and he won't be caught the next time, so wouldn't blame his family. IMO

 

[JimmyWells]

Yes, but when the case goes cold you have to think outside the box. Don't think for one second that investigators don't troll message boards for angles when they're out of ideas.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I just think that a young person would not be “inspired” by the “Silence of the Lambs” because the movie is old and intentionally dreary, no special effects, and young generation is more visual; they probably won’t watch the movie even, unless with the parents. MOO. So the perp is on the older end of the age group, 35 and up if the theory is right.
ETA: there might be an exception. John Lennon is still a cult figure. His killer was obsessed by Jodie Foster. Maybe someone young and interested in John Lennon watched a movie with her because of this connection? But it is a stretch.

Thanks for clarifying that discussion.
Just me personally, I don’t think this case has anything to do with “The Silence of the Lambs”. It just seems to me that if somebody was so taken by a movie that it inspired them to commit a murder, that that person would really want everyone to recognize that connection and I don’t see anything similar in the Delphi case. The murders are totally different. A person could argue that we don’t know anything about the actual crime scene here, so how do we know. I would think that such a committed “tribute” killer would have made sure everybody knew even if it meant starting rumors, or contacting newspapers etc. I just can’t see it. Just my thoughts.

 

[Yemelyan]

Everything can't be relevant. It just can't.

As opposed to people like us on a message board knowing very little about the evidence gathered, real detectives and real investigators take the facts and evidence and use that to lead them towards the perpetrator. Facts come first and constructing new theories out of coincidences are more suitable for murder mystery novels.

Using the scientific method has worked the best at solving such crimes ever since the creation of the scientific/logical/systematic crime investigation method was developed in England in the mid 1800s.

IMO, based on history, they'll solve a lot more crimes and waste a lot less time of investigators following the facts and not following up on wild goose chases.

I wish there was a feature where we could upvote posts that make great contributions because I would do that for this one.

I posted a similar thought before but didn't express it as well as you did @Justice101. Investigators absolutely do not "brainstorm" in the commonly known meaning of that term IMO.

Even if they have a totally cold case with no leads they do not sit around a table throwing out ideas to see what sticks.

They do not say "facts led us nowhere so let's see what other scenarios that we haven't yet considered that we can make fit."

They always start with the evidence and work their way outwards, following where it leads.

 

[Yemelyan]

Yes, but when the case goes cold you have to think outside the box. Don't think for one second that investigators don't troll message boards for angles when they're out of ideas.

We the public may start thinking "outside the box" to occupy ourselves because we probably have less than 1% of an idea of the evidence LE has in this case.

As for the real investigators, they always go back to the "box." They may look for a new seam, a hair, a fiber, a false bottom...but the box itself holds the answer.

 

[JimmyWells]

Thanks for clarifying that discussion.
Just me personally, I don’t think this case has anything to do with “The Silence of the Lambs”. It just seems to me that if somebody was so taken by a movie that it inspired them to commit a murder, that that person would really want everyone to recognize that connection and I don’t see anything similar in the Delphi case. The murders are totally different. A person could argue that we don’t know anything about the actual crime scene here, so how do we know. I would think that such a committed “tribute” killer would have made sure everybody knew even if it meant starting rumors, or contacting newspapers etc. I just can’t see it. Just my thoughts.

Again, I think the point is being missed.

We the public may start thinking "outside the box" to occupy ourselves because we probably have less than 1% of an idea of the evidence LE has in this case.

As for the real investigators, they always go back to the "box." They may look for a new seam, a hair, a fiber, a false bottom...but the box itself holds the answer.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, so would Joseph Deangelo. These "Whodunnit" cases throughout history would have all been solved using today's technology, and technology often starts with thinking outside the box. Just like everything else, criminal investigation has and will continue to evolve. Until the physical evidence is released in this case, I'm afraid speculation is all you're going to get, and with that speculation will come all sorts of asinine theories, none of which are credible. Unfortunately, you're posting on a message board universally consisting of subjective opinions, yet your post reflects someone who isn't all that concerned with subjective opinions.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Again, I think the point is being missed.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, so would Joseph Deangelo.

Respectfully, I don’t think I’m missing the point. We just disagree on how this case should be approached, and that’s OK. I will simply bow out of the speculation discussions.

 

[Charlot123]

Signatures at crime scenes are almost always linked to the psychosexual fantasies of the offender. A symbol purportedly drawn in mud 50 feet away from the crime scene (I actually can't remember off hand how far away from the bank the girls were found, but they weren't right next to the water) is really unlikely to be a signature - at least in the definition of how "signature" is used in law enforcement or criminal psychology IMO. Personation, or signature behaviors, are usually actions done directly to the victim and they typically involve sexual elements or elements of power, domination and control.

I think people like to imagine a signature is something like "a single red rose was left at each crime scene." Unfortunately it's usually much more sordid, demeaning, and sexually explicit than that. The most common ones are sexually posing victims, mutilation, insertion of objects, specific types/patterns of bindings and ligatures.

To think of taking away someone's life represents ultimate control, whatever is done to "impersonate" the control, probably, is like a real signature. So it is between the killer and between the victim, I think, specifying the belonging.

In this respect, I remembered the story about one of the few people who survived the serial killer.
Woman who survived serial killer, helped convict him, will watch him die

 

[Yemelyan]

Again, I think the point is being missed.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, so would Joseph Deangelo. These "Whodunnit" cases throughout history would have all been solved using today's technology, and technology often starts with thinking outside the box. Just like everything else, criminal investigation has and will continue to evolve. Until the physical evidence is released in this case, I'm afraid speculation is all you're going to get, and with that speculation will come all sorts of asinine theories, none of which are credible. Unfortunately, you're posting on a message board universally consisting of subjective opinions, yet your post reflects someone who isn't all that concerned with subjective opinions.

No, I understand your point. I just disagree with it, which is okay. To use your example, Joseph DeAngelo was caught because he left biological evidence at the scenes of his crimes. The methods used to catch him were new investigative tools but weren't out of the box...they derived specifically from crime scene evidence.


An out of the box method would have an investigator reading about Luka Magnotta's obsession with American Psycho and then saying, wow, can we link the GSK crimes to any movies? Let's look and see if we can fit any of the evidence we have to that theory.

To tie this back to Delphi, we the public don't know much about the crime scene itself (not should we), but information from that scene is what is ultimately going to solve the case - if it ever is.

When investigators work murder cases, they move from known evidence to so-called "pools" of suspects. For Delphi, pools might have been "local sex offenders," "people familiar with the Monon High Bridge/RL's property," "people with access to a car on 2/13/17." I'm just speculating here because I don't know what was at the scene. The goal is to see if any names that come up in the investigation belong to multiple pools. Those that do, are your short list of POIs that you look at more closely.

IMO at no time would investigators add a suspect pool like "movie buffs" just in order to think outside the box. They don't start with theories like that, even if the case is cold. They move from known facts about the crime scene, outwards.

 

[LunaInvidia]

I don’t happen to think Silence of the Lambs is a lead- or if it is, the killer is not very good at homages- but I can confirm the youth still watch and enjoy movies, even older movies.