Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[Kittybunny]

Please don't sleuth Daniel N. He is not a suspect, at least the last I heard, not of interest...I think he's a no no..but we did talk about him and his leg in great length in the past.

now I will shut my mouth! ;o). mOO

He was named as a POI in this case so we could talk about him - the question is whether that status was revoked so now we can't talk about him? Calling a mod, LOL!

 

[minazoe]

he went thru quite a going over on this site and elsewhere, but we are verboten. mOO

 

[MistyWaters]

He was named as a POI in this case so we could talk about him - the question is whether that status was revoked so now we can't talk about him? Calling a mod, LOL!

Has something of his status recently changed?

LE didn't clear him, but they did say they were no longer care about him. IMO, that's as close as they'll come to clearing anyone until an arrest is made.

Daniel Nations no longer a major concern in Delphi murders

Daniel Nations, once considered person of interest in Delphi murders, jailed in Johnson County | Fox 59

“ISP has since said they’re no longer actively investigating Nations as a person of interest in the case.“

 

[Thelastleg]

Dbm

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I always thought the sticking point for DN was that LE couldn’t put him at the crime scene on Feb 13th. I wonder if that’s been a problem for a lot of POI in this case. It can’t be too easy proving somebody was on or near a trail system outside a small town. Multiple access, multiple trails, woods, rural countryside surrounding it, a drive-by multilane highway, no stores or shops nearby, probably very few if any security cameras nearby.
Proving someone was not there but somewhere else might be fairly easy. Proving someone was there, kinda hard I would think.

 

[Hansen]

I think what it really depends on is whether or not new investigators would take a different approach to the case. Currently, it sounds like the families are o.k. with the approach currently being taken by investigators and believe in the 2nd sketch poster to help find the killer.

It is hard to say that something is wrong if you do not know that it is wrong. How long should people pursue the 2nd sketch? I think the 2nd sketch is wrong and that a lot of time is going to pass by until investigators start to pursue other ways to find the killer.

As long as most are ok with the current direction of the case, nothing is probably going to change. And the reason is because no one can say with any certainty that the current direction is wrong. It could just be a matter of when and not if. But I don't think so.

I think if new investigators came in they wouldn’t treat the investigation the same. Judge Kurtis Fouts in Delphi and former professor at Purdue resigned amidst allegations this summer. I bring him up because I would vet everyone in town again including city employees, law enforcement etc. (Btw start googling what he’s alleged to be involved in)
Sure, it’s easy to say nothings wrong if you don’t know what’s wrong. Well here’s what’s wrong- 2 girls were murdered in a town w less than 5000 people and apparently there are no leads or movement 3+ years later. Different sets of eyeballs sometimes see things differently. As a community you owe it to yourself to take some different approaches.

 

[Hansen]

I always thought the sticking point for DN was that LE couldn’t put him at the crime scene on Feb 13th. I wonder if that’s been a problem for a lot of POI in this case. It can’t be too easy proving somebody was on or near a trail system outside a small town. Multiple access, multiple trails, woods, rural countryside surrounding it, a drive-by multilane highway, no stores or shops nearby, probably very few if any security cameras nearby.
Proving someone was not there but somewhere else might be fairly easy. Proving someone was there, kinda hard I would think.

LE has said they have DNA. It’s not Nation because his DNA is in the system.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think if new investigators came in they wouldn’t treat the investigation the same. Judge Kurtis Fouts in Delphi and former professor at Purdue resigned amidst allegations this summer. I bring him up because I would vet everyone in town again including city employees, law enforcement etc. (Btw start googling what he’s alleged to be involved in)
Sure, it’s easy to say nothings wrong if you don’t know what’s wrong. Well here’s what’s wrong- 2 girls were murdered in a town w less than 5000 people and apparently there are no leads or movement 3+ years later. Different sets of eyeballs sometimes see things differently. As a community you owe it to yourself to take some different approaches.

I don't find the Judge's misconduct particularly interesting or relevant to this case, but I *do* find the allegations against the former Professor *extremely* interesting. After all, Libby took courses there. We need to dig deeper in to this.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Hansen]

I don't find the Judge's misconduct particularly interesting or relevant to this case, but I *do* find the allegations against the former Professor *extremely* interesting. After all, Libby took courses there. We need to dig deeper in to this.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Fouts taught at Purdue since 2013.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Fouts taught at Purdue since 2013.

Him trying to get a "date" and getting caught is nothing new or particularly novel. The other guy is accused of assault; that's different.

Editing to add I think we aren't supposed to use names for anyone who has not been named a POI in this case......

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Hansen]

Him trying to get a "date" and getting caught is nothing new or particularly novel. The other guy is accused of assault; that's different.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Except for the crowd the “date” ran with. And it’s alleged more than one date.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Except for the crowd the “date” ran with. And it’s alleged more than one date.

You and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. While not accepted in polite society and behavior not consistent with an honorable man, seeking entertainment with dates for hire is nothing novel; even if he sought comfort multiple times. That type of "comfort" is vastly different than sexual assault, as alleged in the other case you mentioned, and certainly leagues away from the fate the Delphi girls suffered. I don't find him interesting as it relates to this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[Hansen]

You and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. While not accepted in polite society and behavior not consistent with an honorable man, seeking entertainment with dates for hire is nothing novel; even if he sought comfort multiple times. That type of "comfort" is vastly different than sexual assault. I don't find him interesting as it relates to this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

Have you researched the judge and the accuser?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

LE has said they have DNA. It’s not Nation because his DNA is in the system.

My memory is that LE said they have DNA but has never said they have the killer’s DNA. Whatever the reason, LE isn’t interested in him anymore.

 

[stattlich1]

I still think somewhere herein lies a potential clue. This killer did more than just murder these girls. He left things at the scene. It appears he may have purposely placed things at the scene, things that we would not normally expect. In fact, it appears some of the items left at the scene were intended to lead LE down the wrong path, and likely did just that for 2 years.

"Now, Ives reveals that the crime scene was nothing like murders he had encountered in the past, where typically a body is found with some evidence such as shell casings present.

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'

'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.

Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.

However, Ives raised the possibility that elements of the scene had been staged in an attempt to trick investigators by sending them down a false path."

 

[stattlich1]

Keeping in mind the timeline, and ALL the things said by LE about the killer, it appears the killer had plenty of time to arrange things, the whole thing I just posted from Ives leads me to speculate that this murderer may have had a vendetta against some others, or may have tried to frame some others. MOO, this was not a run of the mill serial killing....something else was/is going on here.

 

[Kittybunny]

I still think somewhere herein lies a potential clue. This killer did more than just murder these girls. He left things at the scene. It appears he may have purposely placed things at the scene, things that we would not normally expect. In fact, it appears some of the items left at the scene were intended to lead LE down the wrong path, and likely did just that for 2 years.

"Now, Ives reveals that the crime scene was nothing like murders he had encountered in the past, where typically a body is found with some evidence such as shell casings present.

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'

'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.

Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.

However, Ives raised the possibility that elements of the scene had been staged in an attempt to trick investigators by sending them down a false path."

I feel like I've read this before, but it still feels really new to me, not so much the signature part, but that a lot of physical evidence was left behind. And that it was possibly meant to mislead investigators. Given the short amount of time the perp was there, it is puzzling indeed. It reminds me of the hours devoted to analyzing the picture and what he possibly had in his jacket. I had thought that maybe the girls were bound with something that looked like white rope in his jacket. I think that would be considered a signature, bindings of any kind. Maybe also state of undress...or not undress. And maybe something else, that was very different, I can't even imagine.

I agree with all of you that it's time for something new, whether it's a new lead investigator, a new tactic for soliciting tips, or releasing new information.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Keeping in mind the timeline, and ALL the things said by LE about the killer, it appears the killer had plenty of time to arrange things, the whole thing I just posted from Ives leads me to speculate that this murderer may have had a vendetta against some others, or may have tried to frame some others. MOO, this was not a run of the mill serial killing....something else was/is going on here.

Every single time I have gone down a similar train of thought on a thread, the result ends up being some random nut vs. master mind. I wonder if we are overthinking, but I automatically align with your thoughts here.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[_Gypsy_Soul]

Hi everyone.. first time posting and I apologize in advance if this has been covered in a different thread but I am curious if anyone has any theories regarding the crime scene being compared to the movie "The Shack"? I remember watching a YouTube video taking the same path believed to have been taken by the killer and the girls and as he was walking the woods close to where the bodies were believed to have been recovered, there was a little wooden shack there, to the left of the path and Im just wondering if this is what he was referring to? The killer in the movie also left odd signatures at the scene:
1) He left a ladybug pin at the abduction sight
2) He left what appeared to be an upside down smile drawn in blood on a
wooden beam inside the shack, before you came upon the murder sight
(and it again appeared at the burial sight)
3) He left her dress, but took the body to another location for burial

or at least those were the 3 things I considered to be "the signature" and with it being stated that the evidence isn't what we would typically see, i wonder if BG didnt use the elements around him, like a halo made of leaves, or some type of rock or limb formations to mark the sight of the murder? and I really, really wonder if that little wooden shack didnt come into play somehow?!?!?! Just trying to think outside the box and im really interested to see what yall think??

TIA for any responses!

 

[Yemelyan]

I still think somewhere herein lies a potential clue. This killer did more than just murder these girls. He left things at the scene. It appears he may have purposely placed things at the scene, things that we would not normally expect. In fact, it appears some of the items left at the scene were intended to lead LE down the wrong path, and likely did just that for 2 years.

"Now, Ives reveals that the crime scene was nothing like murders he had encountered in the past, where typically a body is found with some evidence such as shell casings present.

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'

'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.

Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.

However, Ives raised the possibility that elements of the scene had been staged in an attempt to trick investigators by sending them down a false path."

Is this quote from the Daily Mail article? Because I have some serious issues with their interpretations. They took every single one of their quotes from Ives directly from his podcast interviews...verbatim. So I don't think they had a new interview with him. And never once in the podcasts did Ives ever say he thought the scene was staged. Lots of physical evidence, yes. Odd evidence, yes. Two or three signatures, yes. Staging - no, that's something very specific and he never said or implied this.

Staging is something completely separate from signatures or personation.