Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[JnRyan]

$250,000 is certainly life changing money and a strong incentive unless by tipping what you know you go to jail or are in fear of losing your life itself.

So that brings me to the question: If our tipster is arrested for a crime are they still eligible for the reward? Even if such a criminal activity was not related to the murders? We can ponder that or have an attorney weigh in, but I can't help but think that doubt would be part of a potential tipster's line of thinking.

 

[Charlot123]

he doesn't have to do much, as likely he was disguised. he just needs a low profile. it seems likely he will re-offend and maybe he already has... somewhere else.. maybe he is in planning stages..or afraid he will be caught. maybe he went to Alaska...police have a lot of evidence..he cant afford any DNA to surface.
FBI needs to come back in... mOO

Agree

If what was said in that GH video I just posted about LE being shocked at how little viable DNA was recovered from the Delphi murders scene is true, what do you all think are some logical reasons why?

Is it just a person who is so meticulous in his planning, so knowledgeable in what not to do, that he covered all bases on not leaving behind blood, semen, hair, skin, spit, sweat?

Did he maybe use some kinda of cleaner/contaminate to "clean" the scene before leaving?

With two victims you'd think some sort of struggle, no matter how slight, would have occurred somewhere within the crime timeline. Struggle would transfer traces of killer and victims.

It makes me ponder different lifestyles and occupations that would afford a person such knowledge and the methodical calmness it would take to become untraceable after abduction and double murder. Such a person would have to be able to compartmentalize tasks and have no discomfort or anguish over what they're doing at the time they're doing it. I'd call that cold-blooded.

Makes me wonder about that slaughterhouse and all it's employees. I would think only a certain kind of personality would be able to do that job and just a fraction of those not have any qualms and be totally removed from their job's actions.

Maybe a person indoctrinated in their early life to hunting who took it a step further than normal because they could unnaturally dissociate from the killing and butchering of game.

I hate to think of these two but maybe a veteran who thrived in conflict, even was praised for it, never got over the feelings killing gave them. Or someone in LE who was trained but then didn't fit in because of the lack of empathy and sympathy needed to truly protect and serve.

Just a few thoughts. Anyone have others they care to share?

Strangely, who comes to mind is a hired professional assassin. I imagine him shaving off hair from head, beard and body, and wearing a nylon stocking with a cutout for the face.

Who really emerges in my mind is Kurtz from Le Carre's "the little drummer girl", only Kurtz was higher class, and I don't understand why anyone needed to hire an assassin for two teenagers. But this was the first person that came to my mind. MOO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

"Stronger incentives". I like that and maybe it is time for LE to assure the public as a whole - and not just the law abiding citizen - that our one tipster out there can do this. If this killer runs in the same circles of those who violate the law, they may be the ones LE really needs to hear from. Unfortunately, self-preservation trumps conscience and LE needs to overcome that issue.

Exactly my line of thinking. I'd start by interviewing jailbirds, (and providing incentives); they know a lot.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

$250,000 is certainly life changing money and a strong incentive unless by tipping what you know you go to jail or are in fear of losing your life itself.

The only way to get a tip is to give all this $$$ and be prepared to offer the immunity. If we are talking about criminal elements, their "professional honor" would prevent them from dealing with the cops, and we know how they call LE. However, given that two kids were killed (a dishonor in any man's eyes), and high sum, the criminals might slightly bend the rules.
As to the family of the killer, it is more than money...it has to be a long, hard, negotiation.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, but then he still wants to be known, in some way, right? He can’t just keep a score, he wants to be appreciated. How would he boast about his crimes? What do you think?

Of course he wants to be known. First he becomes known on media and social media, although not with his name and his face. For the "big honour" he has to wait until all is over one day in the future.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Exactly my line of thinking. I'd start by interviewing jailbirds, (and providing incentives); they know a lot.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Several years ago there was a card game, each card with the story of an unsolved case, designed for inmates and distributed in prisons. I found the idea grandiose. Which country it was, I don't remember at the moment.
ETA: The Playing Cards That Help Solve Cold-Case Crimes

 

[stattlich1]

Agree
Strangely, who comes to mind is a hired professional assassin.

This has been one of my theories. It's a wild one, I know, but hey, nobody's solved this crime yet have they?

If the girls had knowledge of some crime of a rich and powerful man who stood to lose all?

I don't know about you folks, but it's my belief that politicians, government officials, clergy, big shots from any walk of life, are surely capable of such atrocities. And to add, I can imagine even folks of lesser means wanting to save themselves in the face of certain ruin.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

FG, I do think he is analytical. I think if he had a camera , especially a go-pro we can assume that he is literate in using technology. I think this would put him in a younger age range...also if he had such a camera they are several hundred dollars. so he has some money to spend. Some have speculated that he had a mouth piece in his mouth that you use to control the camera which you can wear almost anywhere, on a hat on your chest etc. and is usually used to record your sporting experience, such as skiing, fishing, windsurfing etc..

bbm
^^^^ This, IMO.

 

[Yemelyan]

This has been one of my theories. It's a wild one, I know, but hey, nobody's solved this crime yet have they?

If the girls had knowledge of some crime of a rich and powerful man who stood to lose all?

I don't know about you folks, but it's my belief that politicians, government officials, clergy, big shots from any walk of life, are surely capable of such atrocities. And to add, I can imagine even folks of lesser means wanting to save themselves in the face of certain ruin.

MOO

IMO there's nothing wrong with having a "wild" theory as there are many facts not known about the Delphi case and there is, after all, a reason that we say "the truth is stranger than fiction."

I'm a scientist by profession so when I look at crimes I start looking for patterns as it's my belief that human behavior isn't totally random and for the most part humans are going to behave in some predictable ways....even if what they are doing isn't "rational," aka, wanting to hurt a fellow human, they are still going to make rational decisions like: where do I find my victim, how do I dispose of evidence, etc.

For example, if we study patterns of crimes we find that most of the time if a female child Abby and Libby's age encounters someone away from their home who kills and then leaves their body in an outdoor public area, that murder is: 1. Usually NOT committed by a family member or intimate (someone who lived with the victim day in and day out in their home) 2. Sexually motivated the majority of the time. There may be other patterns too but those are the two that overwhelmingly bear out.

Yes, you will always be able to find a few outlier examples that do not fit the pattern. So if your theory is that Abby and Libby were killed to silence them from telling some secret that they knew, then the best thing is to search out other cases where a young girl or girls was killed for this known reason. What did the murderer do in that situation and what rational decisions did he make? And then compare to the Delphi case and see if the same pattern emerges.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m not an attorney but I highly doubt the Delphi investigators have legal authority to grant immunity to tipsters. What would be the unique significance in this case as opposed to every other unsolved murder case in the USA where somebody with outstanding warrants might also be reluctant to deal with police?

Does anyone want police to pick and choose when they turn the other cheek to perpetrators of prior crime in order to solve more recent higher prioritized crimes? Probably not, especially the victims impacted by any of those prior crimes. JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Interesting post Sunshineray, and just sets up several lines of thinking for me that don't lead to any conclusive speculations, just more questions.

I have no idea if the information you are referencing is accurate, but for the purpose of this post, we'll assume the GH source is correct. The only thought that comes to mind is that this Perp had himself so well covered/sealed that he didn't leave much DNA as stated in your above post. That's really quite remarkable, if true.

To *not* leave DNA, he would have had to have worn some sort of "clean room" suit that you see in labs or highly dust sensitive assembly lines. He might have even gone so far as to shave his body. As to the hair....well that doesn't add up, unless he had it under a clean room cap. (They look like shower caps). With what we believe must have been a violent struggle, you would think a hair or two (or several) would have transferred, and skin cells; particularly under the girls nails.

The lack of DNA also suggests there was not a sexual assault, (which doesn't align with my Perp profile), or that he wore a condom, or removed the evidence with bleach, etc.

If the GH source is accurate, (unconfirmed), the lack of DNA (except the touch DNA) adds a whole new dimension to this. I sincerely hope the crime scene was handled properly and wasn't contaminated.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree with much of this, good post.

I've heard that caller, and what they state in the segment is second-hand information from an anonymous source. While the source may be legit, as we all know things get lost in translation, timelines get fouled up, etc. I'd be hard-pressed myself to try and remember any details of a hike I've been on, hours or maybe a few days later, despite having a "photographic memory".

I've yet to see a media interview where an eyewitness who states verbally they saw BG there before or after the murders. I'm aware of one witness who gave a description to LE which lead to the early sketch (which was released in April of 2019 for some odd reason), they saw BG minutes before A&L were dropped off. Yet nobody who was there that day and says they saw BG has given any media interviews about it, nor have they posted as "verified insiders" here, and they have not called in to any YouTube channels owners or Podcast creators that I am aware of. I don't believe the witness who came forward about the encounter on the main trail before A&L were dropped off has ever been named or interviewed by a media source. The little information those eyewitnesses have shared with people in that area has been shared second-hand, no official timelines have been released by LE with indicators such as "Eyewitness A was here at this time and saw such-and-such", "Eyewitness B...", etc.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I also hope scene contamination doesn't have a part in this. I wonder if the the coldness overnight had a play in DNA degradation. It was the middle of February. I know around here, east coast, at that time of year the frost more times than not sets in for at least a 6-8 hour period overnight. Does that help to destroy DNA?

I've wondered about this myself since early on in the case. Temperature vs. time, things of that nature, when it comes to DNA.

I doubt they have any usable DNA.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Several years ago there was a card game, each card with the story of an unsolved case, designed for inmates and distributed in prisons. I found the idea grandiose. Which country it was, I don't remember at the moment.
ETA: The Playing Cards That Help Solve Cold-Case Crimes

the idea is brilliant in its simplicity. I have many acquaintances with ability to think in technical shortcuts, but people able to create “social shortcuts” are not seen as frequently, and are very interesting.

 

[sunshineray]

So that brings me to the question: If our tipster is arrested for a crime are they still eligible for the reward? Even if such a criminal activity was not related to the murders? We can ponder that or have an attorney weigh in, but I can't help but think that doubt would be part of a potential tipster's line of thinking.

Yes I'm also thinking it probably would mean they couldn't collect...but not sure

 

[sunshineray]

The only way to get a tip is to give all this $$$ and be prepared to offer the immunity. If we are talking about criminal elements, their "professional honor" would prevent them from dealing with the cops, and we know how they call LE. However, given that two kids were killed (a dishonor in any man's eyes), and high sum, the criminals might slightly bend the rules.
As to the family of the killer, it is more than money...it has to be a long, hard, negotiation.

I would think 250 grand would go a long way in soothing any angst about professional honor.

I actually am leaning towards the tip is in but the conviction is not a reliable certainty yet to arrest. LE must be telling the German and Williams families something to earn their trust. Families by their own words still have faith in LE. Even Libby's mom has gone quiet with her frustration.

I will keep hoping and praying that LE has his identity and is building a case to arrest and convict.

 

[sunshineray]

Several years ago there was a card game, each card with the story of an unsolved case, designed for inmates and distributed in prisons. I found the idea grandiose. Which country it was, I don't remember at the moment.
ETA: The Playing Cards That Help Solve Cold-Case Crimes

They did that with Iraqi invasion in 2003, handed out playing cards to the Allied forces with the bad guys pictures. Saddam was the ace of spades. My cousin had them when he came back. I think its a great idea.

 

[drama_farmer]

I should probably just Google this myself, but does anyone have the list of stipulations, the "fine print" that determines how the monetary reward will/may be awarded?

I can't recall an instance where someone who simply called in the "right tip" was handed a check in a timely manner.

The reward contingencies may read like an end user license agreement. Imo

 

[MistyWaters]

I should probably just Google this myself, but does anyone have the list of stipulations, the "fine print" that determines how the monetary reward will/may be awarded?

I can't recall an instance where someone who simply called in the "right tip" was handed a check in a timely manner.

The reward contingencies may read like an end user license agreement. Imo

Much like all rewards, anyone also involved (ie an accomplice) is probably ineligible from financially benefiting from committing a crime such as that.

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation
“Information can be reported anonymously; however, the Indiana State Police, the FBI, and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department have announced a reward for information leading to the arrest of the person or persons responsible for the homicides of Liberty German and Abigail Williams. The amount of the reward may be in excess of $200,000 depending upon the value of the information provided.

Law enforcement authorities reserve the right to reject a claim for reward where there has been collusion or criminal involvement. The reward may be apportioned between various persons and/or paid for the arrest of the responsible person(s), as the circumstances fairly dictate....”

 

[drama_farmer]

Much like all rewards, anyone also involved (ie an accomplice) is probably ineligible from financially benefiting from committing a crime such as that.

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation
“Information can be reported anonymously; however, the Indiana State Police, the FBI, and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department have announced a reward for information leading to the arrest of the person or persons responsible for the homicides of Liberty German and Abigail Williams. The amount of the reward may be in excess of $200,000 depending upon the value of the information provided.

Law enforcement authorities reserve the right to reject a claim for reward where there has been collusion or criminal involvement. The reward may be apportioned between various persons and/or paid for the arrest of the responsible person(s), as the circumstances fairly dictate....”

Okay, that's what I was looking for: the "fine print" about who MAY receive some of the money. In other words, there's a chance that a valuable tip about the case may NOT result in payment for the tipster.

My interpretation is "we'll be the judge of that." Is that a valid interpretation? Not sure who has the final say. A committee?

Not the strongest call to action for tipsters I've seen, imo. Depending on their motivation, of course.

Sometimes, imo, there's also a general timeline for dispersing the funds, like within "x" number of days following the arrestee's conviction for the murder, etc.

Regardless, I often think that the real value of an announcement of a big possible payday is in its ability to generate publicity. It could also work and as a morale boost for the families of the victims and a way for the law enforcement community to show support. imo

 

[Dylansmom08]

Former boss says Nations had changing temper

This may have already been posted as most of you are way ahead of me on this case but I just wanted to link it here and see what everyone else thought of this possibility. I've looked at the pictures and I don't really see the resemblance but I could be wrong.