Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Cryptic]

. I don't know why the girls would have stayed idle on the east end, this makes zero sense to me without some sort of physical barrier or serious threat.

They were obviously directed, "Down the hill," from the east end of the tracks and didn't run initially, but were obviously spooked enough to start snapping pictures. This makes zero, absolutely zero sense.

I agree with the the logical contradictions, but I think there could be possible explanations:

- In the end, humans are not always logical. Rather, we can make decisions of friendship, fight or flight based on a lot of subjective impressions.

For example, as you pointed out, the girls were un nerved by the man and took his photo. Perhaps their initial apprehension was subjectively mitigated by one of the following: The approaching man was not large, thus appeared less dangerous.

Or, the man had local mannerisms, dress, accent etc, was thus subjectively familiar. Maybe the man did not appear to be angry as he got closer. Or, the girls simply worked their nerve up and did not want to appear to be intimidated by his approach.

- A co-opted meeting. The girls were prepared to meet somebody there to make a promise, an apology, provide information etc. etc.

BG's approach un nerves them- they were expecting to meet with say, "Tommy". They take his photo. But don't fully want to leave the meeting spot.

As BG approaches, they then realize that BG is somewhat familiar. Perhaps he is "Tommy's" uncle from a gathering two months ago. Or with a younger BG, he is "Tommy's" older friend or cousin met once in the course of hanging out.

BG approaches the victims, informs them that the actual meeting will be "Down the hill....".

 

[JimmyWells]

I think you're on point with the ruse, actually I'd probably bet on it. I didn't think this was premeditated until LE leaked his demeanor. Now I am all but convinced this was planned and executed, this was not random nor opportunistic, and has a Deangelo level sadism. LE may have looked into this, but there's no way this guy wasn't psychotic during the crime and would have been noticeably disturbed, disheveled, drunk, or frantic in the weeks following and may have sought psychiatric help. Hippa laws aside, some ground could have been gained by consulting with psychiatrists or psychologists in the surrounding areas, or even ER's in the days following the crime in which patients were admitted for panic attacks or an inability to sleep. Given the environment, the alleged condition of the bodies, and witness testimony, this crime was done hastily and the perp would have most likely left trace all over the place. This was his first one, there's no way it could not be, and it was probably very sloppy.

I don’t think the girls saw BG as a threat as they filmed him coming across the bridge, so I don’t think they made a decision to film instead of to run. They were certainly wary of him but were probably trying to convince themselves he was OK and the situation would be OK. I think their plan was to cross back across the bridge once he finished crossing to politely distance themselves from him.
I do believe he used some type of ruse to get the girls off the bridge. Exactly what that was I believe is one of the things LE is keeping very tightly hidden, hence the butchered editing on the audio clip. Personally I think the exchange went like this,
BG: I’m an employee of the railroad and this is private property. You are trespassing. Also...GUYS...this bridge is dangerous, you cannot recross it.
Girls: But how do we get back?
BG: DOWN THE HILL
I used to think the girls bolted at some point when they realized his intent but I’m not sure now. It’s very likely he surprised them at the crime scene with his intentions. I am convinced one person murdered them. The only thing that puts any doubts in my mind is that second sketch that we all are trying to make sense of.
Just my thoughts. A few weeks from now I’ll probably think something entirely different!

 

[flashy09]

Imagine if BG yanked a 12 ga. sawed off shotgun out from under that jacket of his and racked that thing one time, just prior to saying 'down the hill'.

That'd be enough to gain full compliance from darn near anybody.

I don't think this guy is out of shape, or old. Heck, I'm 61 years old and can run rings around a whole lotta people, including those much younger than I.

Heck just today I cleared 3 driveways of snow, including a hundred feet or more of sidewalk, walked over 2 miles, and rode my bike to the post office

I seriously don't think BG is 61. I think he's closer to 30, and athletic.

All opinion of course.

I agree the second sketch and the terrain and mostly his confidence he could handle the terrain while controlling two girls points to a younger person. His voice just throws me off. It really fits with the first sketch and my interpretation of the video. I can almost see his jowls the way he says down the hill. I always see and hear a middle aged out of shape man. That first sketch I think has just ruined me. Logically, I know his legs look lean and the middle heaviness is probably layers and a weapon.

 

[JimmyWells]

That guy made every attempt to disguise himself, the hoodie alone was unnecessary given the weather.

I agree the second sketch and the terrain and mostly his confidence he could handle the terrain while controlling two girls points to a younger person. His voice just throws me off. It really fits with the first sketch and my interpretation of the video. I can almost see his jowls the way he says down the hill. I always see and hear a middle aged out of shape man. That first sketch I think has just ruined me. Logically, I know his legs look lean and the middle heaviness is probably layers and a weapon.

 

[sandy_80]

My point was he wouldn't be able to control them from that distance with verbal direction alone. Even if he was strapped, they wouldn't have known it from 200 feet. The only way it could have worked is if this guy flashed a phony badge, that's a big one with sex offenders. There had to be something that scared them into not fleeing, and perceived authority confronting them for, "Trespassing," or something of that nature would suffice.

cause simply he is ordering them down the hill with a gun...thats why
orders comes with power ..and that means a weapon

 

[JimmyWells]

Handguns are pretty useless unless in issuing threats when people don't know you have one, they're even more useless at 200 feet when people don't know you have one. I cross paths with people every day who have concealed weapons, I'd hardly let them get in arms distance of me if I perceived a threat. And if I already have an eighth of a mile head start, I'm not waiting for him to brandish it. They had him on video with his hands in his pockets, that's the issue, not the weapon in itself as much as if and when he brandished it, that's what we're trying to establish here, and has been the point of conversation for the last several hours.

cause simply he is ordering them down the hill with a gun...thats why
orders comes with power ..and that means a weapon

 

[somequestions]

I kinda of agree...I have more reasons for them to be pushing the second sketch
...the worse part is that the sketches only created that much chaos and confusion and that's it... no suspect would be brought to this case based on a sketch ......and LE is telling us that the video that the girls so bravely captured is basically useless ?
yes..cause LE can not even put a clear profile for the suspect from the video and audio.. he could be just anyone ....they tell you to focus on his gait instead ??? he was walking on a broken bridge ...and they tell you to focus on his gait...that's how desperate they seem

I thought the worst part about the second sketch is that it made this man on the bridge the young man in the sketch. I think people are going to link the video still to that second sketch as the person everyone should be looking for.

It was a guess on LE's part. That is my opinion. They took an eyewitness statement from back in February 2017 that was probably based on this individual owning a vehicle. The killer had to have a way to leave the immediate area so at least logically it made sense to guess with that second sketch.

I submitted a tip, based on Liberty German's video, of a man I saw. LE developed the second sketch from an eyewitness. Their eyewitness could be as wrong as me. So in my opinion, we could both be wrong.

I will write it a thousand times. In my opinion, the second sketch was a guess by LE because they have absolutely no idea what the person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German looks like.

 

[SouthernMom]

Here is one example of two young girls who were kidnapped and murdered by an SK. (Thank goodness he is now in prison.) These young girls were living with their mother and brother in a motel. I would think that kids who grow up in less permanent housing tend to be more "street smart". Somehow, this SK was able to gain control of both girls in a very urban setting where one could have run for help. Duncan did confess details of this crime after he was captured for the kidnapping of Shasta Groene and her brother after murdering her Mother, stepdad (or mom's bf) and her older brother. Would love to read that confession to see how it's done.
It might help to understand how BG committed his crime.

Timeline of Sammiejo White and Carmen Cubias case

 

[sunshineray]

A personal observation and grasp...AJMO

You know what's intriguing to me, just by way of trying to put myself in another's situation...the absence of criticism by family members over LE's lack of results.

Even when LE did a total flip on the sketch, even then, no public airing of feelings on the matter really. Just a brief mention here or there about how that was upsetting.

Then LG's biological Mom spoke out angrily now only to become pretty much silent again. Was she at first being kept in the dark about a few things that when known have quelled her need to vent about the lack of progress?

It's seems like such blind faith on their part that it's fascinating. I get that everyone is different in their natures and how they intake and adjust but the odds are someone would have blown a bit of a gasket by now...and then there's covid. Is that responsible for the lack of onus I'm beginning to see and feel (and I'm not personally involved) towards Delphi investigators?

Suffice it to say, I think the family member's manners, patience and trust are exceptional IMO, considering the case's stagnation.

 

[cujenn81]

I agree the second sketch and the terrain and mostly his confidence he could handle the terrain while controlling two girls points to a younger person. His voice just throws me off. It really fits with the first sketch and my interpretation of the video. I can almost see his jowls the way he says down the hill. I always see and hear a middle aged out of shape man. That first sketch I think has just ruined me. Logically, I know his legs look lean and the middle heaviness is probably layers and a weapon.

The first sketch ruined me too. Even though LE has repeatedly said to focus on the second sketch, I still picture him looking like the first sketch no matter what I do.

 

[girlfriday]

I go back and forth with one or two voices. Something I don’t understand though, is WHY did LE leave all that noise in between the guys and down the hill? I think I recall Carter saying the two phrases aren’t necessarily connected. It’s pretty loud and distracting to me and I can only think it was intentionally left/put there. Does it mean something to someone who knows BG? Is it their footsteps? Blurred out voices of Abigail and/or Liberty? They have the capability to remove it but it’s there for a reason. What that reason is, I don’t know.

Also, at the april 2019 PC, Carter made it seem like the additional audio they were going to release was a much bigger deal than the “guys” turned out to be. I think “guys” is the most important part, whether that’s because it is a second voice or maybe it sounds more like the rest of the audio they have, thus giving a better representation of his real voice. MOO

It did seem like a lot of fan fare for the addition of the word “Guys”. Perhaps the significance was more important to the perp. It has made me wonder if more than one encounter with this person was discreetly recorded, which could explain the “We know... you want to know what we know.” rattling that ISP DC did.

Just my opinion.

 

[Skully]

The first sketch ruined me too. Even though LE has repeatedly said to focus on the second sketch, I still picture him looking like the first sketch no matter what I do.

Ya, I know what you mean. I look at the video, and even with his head down, I have a hard time thinking it is the second sketch. His voice sounds older, not old, but like 40s to 50s maybe. Crazy case, they have him on video, his voice and most likely DNA and nothing yet. They must be so frustrated (LE) too.

We had an old sex battery, rape case from the early 80's and we had a full profile and used Parabon Gen Match and got the hit. Our guy was dead, but we know who he was and solved the case and gave the victim some closure knowing he was dead and couldn't hurt her or anyone else.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I thought the worst part about the second sketch is that it made this man on the bridge the young man in the sketch. I think people are going to link the video still to that second sketch as the person everyone should be looking for.

It was a guess on LE's part. That is my opinion. They took an eyewitness statement from back in February 2017 that was probably based on this individual owning a vehicle. The killer had to have a way to leave the immediate area so at least logically it made sense to guess with that second sketch.

I submitted a tip, based on Liberty German's video, of a man I saw. LE developed the second sketch from an eyewitness. Their eyewitness could be as wrong as me. So in my opinion, we could both be wrong.

I will write it a thousand times. In my opinion, the second sketch was a guess by LE because they have absolutely no idea what the person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German looks like.

Re “vehicle and “the killer had to have a way to leave the immediate area”: Not if he had a relative who lived near the tracks. He could just quietly walk in their door .

 

[JimmyWells]

<modsnip> that maneuver is ordinarily relegated to cross draw shoulder holsters without retention. They keep the right arm tucked to keep the weapon secure, I've done it a thousand times. He would have lost it at some point on the bridge if he didn't secure the weapon and the girls ran, it also suggests he's possibly left-hand dominant.

Any one think he has a right leg that may be longer than the left? I also see he keeps his arm sort of tucked to his right side, I have seen people who have issues with the back that do this. But if he had back issues, he ain't hiking up and down that terrain. But he sort of looks off balance to me.

 

[Skully]

Re “vehicle and “the killer had to have a way to leave the immediate area”: Not if he had a relative who lived near the tracks. He could just quietly walk in their door .

I do remember early on the talk about a vehicle parked on the side of the road, by a building that was torn down later. I think that is where the second sketch came in. So if the person lived that close, and they had a vehicle description, wouldn't that send off alarm bells and someone would have a good idea who this was? I do believe he knew the area, but I don't think he lived in that town. If he was a hiker or hunter, they go to lots of different locations to do that sport. I wouldn't rule out PA or other states close by. I know hunters that travel all the time to hunt. If he was staying with relatives, they know who it is. JMO

 

[Skully]

<modsnip>that maneuver is relegated to cross draw shoulder holsters without retention. They keep the right arm tucked to keep the weapon secure, I've done it a thousand times. He would have lost it at some point on the bridge if he didn't secure the weapon and the girls ran, it also suggests he's possibly left-hand dominant.

<modsnip> But look at it closer, see how his leg and body sort of lean to the one side. His hand is indicative to that maneuver but it also sort of supports the leg issue. Just an observation.

 

[Skully]

<modsnip> that maneuver is relegated to cross draw shoulder holsters without retention. They keep the right arm tucked to keep the weapon secure, I've done it a thousand times. He would have lost it at some point on the bridge if he didn't secure the weapon and the girls ran, it also suggests he's possibly left-hand dominant.

You can see the bulkiness in that jacket too. He has a weapon for sure....But maybe other stuff shoved inside.

 

[JimmyWells]

Now that I've taken a closer look it appears to be the outline of a weapon, and, true to form with shoulder holsters, it's rocking. The weight of the gun ordinarily pulls the holster down to your midriff and the still on the bridge shows this may be the case. Again, true to form, the barrel is pointed at his right elbow with the handle of the gun just superior and to the right of his pocketed hand. The ridge just above the slide just below the opening in the jacket looks like a Glock to me.

You can see the bulkiness in that jacket too. He has a weapon for sure....But maybe other stuff shoved inside.

You can see the bulkiness in that jacket too. He has a weapon for sure....But maybe other stuff shoved inside.

 

[Skully]

Now that I've taken a closer look it appears to be the outline of a weapon, and, true to form with shoulder holsters, it's rocking. The weight of the gun ordinarily pulls the holster down to your midriff and the still on the bridge shows that may be the case. Again, true to form, the barrel is pointed at his right elbow with the handle of the gun just superior and to the right of his pocketed hand. The ridge just above the slide just below the opening in the jacket looks like a Glock to me.

Yep, and the bulkiness also makes him appear to be larger than he is, meaning a pot belly, LOL. I think he has layers of clothing on too, but he is not that big of a guy as he appears.

 

[JimmyWells]

I suppose I never really took a good look at the bridge photos, its obvious.

Yep, and the bulkiness also makes him appear to be larger than he is, meaning a pot belly, LOL. I think he has layers of clothing on too, but he is not that big of a guy as he appears.