Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Skully]

So I looked at the video of BG and I still see a weird gait and maybe facial hair on the chin. I so see his face is not round, but thin, supporting the theory of the cloths making him look bigger. I also see what looks like a tear at the right knee in the jeans? His feet are small too. So not a big guy.

 

[JimmyWells]

I have to update my profile upon further review. Single offender, relatively local, not a drifter, well organized, left-handed, possible FORMER law enforcement experience, (Glock 17 or 19, very popular amongst LE, along with the cross draw which, upon review has level one retention.) Look for attempted law enforcement employment with rejections throughout the application process on psychological grounds. The offender has never been convicted of a violent felony and his DNA signature is not identified in CODIS. He incurred a jarring life event just prior to the murders, job loss, home loss, etc. He had been thinking of this for a long time but never executed the plan until he had nothing to lose. In the seventies, during the GSK sexual assaults in California, investigators chimed into sex offender group therapy for probationers in Sacramento County. The probationers came to the conclusion that Deangelo would move on to murder, "When he finds the justification to." Years later, Deangelo had been fired from his job as a police officer and the ONS murders followed shortly thereafter. You hate to make generalizations but these guys all pretty much think alike. I am, however, a bit lost on the age. There are exceptions to every rule, but offenders ordinarily don't come out blasting like this in their forties or fifties. By the looks of things, BG was no spring chicken.

So I looked at the video of BG and I still see a weird gait and maybe facial hair on the chin. I so see his face is not round, but thin, supporting the theory of the cloths making him look bigger. I also see what looks like a tear at the right knee in the jeans? His feet are small too. So not a big guy.

 

[sandy_80]

A personal observation and grasp...AJMO

You know what's intriguing to me, just by way of trying to put myself in another's situation...the absence of criticism by family members over LE's lack of results.

Even when LE did a total flip on the sketch, even then, no public airing of feelings on the matter really. Just a brief mention here or there about how that was upsetting.

Then LG's biological Mom spoke out angrily now only to become pretty much silent again. Was she at first being kept in the dark about a few things that when known have quelled her need to vent about the lack of progress?

It's seems like such blind faith on their part that it's fascinating. I get that everyone is different in their natures and how they intake and adjust but the odds are someone would have blown a bit of a gasket by now...and then there's covid. Is that responsible for the lack of onus I'm beginning to see and feel (and I'm not personally involved) towards Delphi investigators?

Suffice it to say, I think the family member's manners, patience and trust are exceptional IMO, considering the case's stagnation.

i strongly second that.. its a sentiment that's been discussed over and again in communities..they also appear not to like the internet sleuths input on the case...
my explanation for this unusual behaviour might be small town dynamics.. where you tend to believe in absolute le authority and want to keep friendly ties ...

 

[Skully]

I posted that maybe he could be a security guard, or something along those lines. But he may have been LE and got kicked out. When did they start taking DNA for felonies? Not in the service, or DNA would be on file. But did you notice, no gloves... He has the fanny pack, I would guess maybe zip ties, bullets, duct tape or something alone those lines. I would go as far to say he was a peep in tom for a few years too. My neighbor was caught, but didn't do time, and not a RSO, because he plead down.

 

[JimmyWells]

Late nineties in Illinois anyway, but it used to be reserved for violent felonies. Pretty much anyone convicted of a felony nowadays outside a traffic case gets swabbed. Misdemeanor assault and battery cases as well. There's no way this guy's DNA is in the system, but his prints would be if he applied for LE. Did anyone get a look at his hands at any time in the video or pics? He may have already had gloves on which also implies organized, no drifter. If there was "Bigfringement material," listed in the autopsy report he used gloves.

I posted that maybe he could be a security guard, or something along those lines. But he may have been LE and got kicked out. When did they start taking DNA for felonies? Not in the service, or DNA would be on file. But did you notice, no gloves... He has the fanny pack, I would guess maybe zip ties, bullets, duct tape or something alone those lines. I would go as far to say he was a peep in tom for a few years too. My neighbor was caught, but didn't do time, and not a RSO, because he plead down.

I posted that maybe he could be a security guard, or something along those lines. But he may have been LE and got kicked out. When did they start taking DNA for felonies? Not in the service, or DNA would be on file. But did you notice, no gloves... He has the fanny pack, I would guess maybe zip ties, bullets, duct tape or something alone those lines. I would go as far to say he was a peep in tom for a few years too. My neighbor was caught, but didn't do time, and not a RSO, because he plead down.

 

[Skully]

Late nineties in Illinois anyway, but it used to be reserved for violent felonies. Pretty much anyone convicted of a felony nowadays outside a traffic case gets swabbed. Misdemeanor assault and battery cases as well. There's no way this guy's DNA is in the system, but his prints would be if he applied for LE. Did anyone get a look at his hands at any time in the video or pics? He may have already had gloves on which also implies organized, no drifter. If there was "Bigfringement material," listed in the autopsy report he used gloves.

no gloves that I can see....

 

[flashy09]

So I looked at the video of BG and I still see a weird gait and maybe facial hair on the chin. I so see his face is not round, but thin, supporting the theory of the cloths making him look bigger. I also see what looks like a tear at the right knee in the jeans? His feet are small too. So not a big guy.

The FBI poster says 5'6 - 5'10. So he isn't tall, although I thought the top height used to be 5'8. 180-220 lbs. The smallest he could be is 5'6 and 180, which isn't lean. Even 5'10 and 180 isn't particularly skinny. So maybe he is somewhat stocky and it's not all jacket and weapon?

May appear younger than true age is written right on the poster. I have posted this a few times, but to me that rules out him being 18 -25 because to look noticeably younger than a young man would suggest he looks like a young teen and I doubt that. He would have to be in the 30 -40 range, probably even like more 35-40, for that statement to have any true meaning.

So in real life I bet he looks quite unscary. Not a big guy, maybe somewhat soft in the upper half, youthful face, full head of hair. Very hard to imagine being BG.

On another note, the Daily Mail had a picture of CE in jeans with torn knees and at the time that convinced me he was BG because I also see that tear you mention in his jeans!

 

[Yemelyan]

I posted that maybe he could be a security guard, or something along those lines. But he may have been LE and got kicked out. When did they start taking DNA for felonies? Not in the service, or DNA would be on file. But did you notice, no gloves... He has the fanny pack, I would guess maybe zip ties, bullets, duct tape or something alone those lines. I would go as far to say he was a peep in tom for a few years too. My neighbor was caught, but didn't do time, and not a RSO, because he plead down.

It is widely known that the military collects DNA records for all current service members for the purpose of identifying human remains. Seems like you are suggesting, by the part I bolded above, that non-military LE agencies would be able to obtain access to these military DNA records for purposes of comparing to DNA recovered in "civilian" crimes, for lack of a better word.

Can you elaborate on the process by which this comparison would be allowed to occur?

 

[minazoe]

I hoped they checked every phone that pinged over the course of a few weeks. I believe he had scoped out the area previously..maybe he had his phone then.

Also he does have kinda dainty looking feet...so he's fairly short with small feet.does he look younger than he is? does he try to pass as younger when he is not dressed as Cliff Clavin on Cheers?

does he pass as younger?????? does this mean something?

Does anyone see what looks like a Go-Pro mouth rig in his mouth?

mOO

 

[IceIce9]

i strongly second that.. its a sentiment that's been discussed over and again in communities..they also appear not to like the internet sleuths input on the case...
my explanation for this unusual behaviour might be small town dynamics.. where you tend to believe in absolute le authority and want to keep friendly ties ...

If it were me, I would have hired a private detective 3 years ago.

 

[Skully]

It is widely known that the military collects DNA records for all current service members for the purpose of identifying human remains. Seems like you are suggesting, by the part I bolded above, that non-military LE agencies would be able to obtain access to these military DNA records for purposes of comparing to DNA recovered in "civilian" crimes, for lack of a better word.

Can you elaborate on the process by which this comparison would be allowed to occur?

So I meant that if he were in the military, the DNA would be on file, just to clarify my awkward sentence. So a crime is a crime, doesn't matter if it is done in the military or not. I know that they work with LE. You can state your business and they will comply and respond to your request. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Yemelyan]

He may have already had gloves on which also implies organized, no drifter. If there was "Bigfringement material," listed in the autopsy report he used gloves.

Birefringent material. A property of a material that has to do with how it refracts light.

You're probably implying that the talc in latex gloves would be the source of this, but there are many other ways birefringent materials could be noted during autopsy, including fibers from possible bindings or even fibers from the car they rode to the trails in.

The autopsy report is sealed.

 

[Skully]

Maybe someone could make a list of things we see in the video and things you don't see that you should, like no gloves.

 

[Skully]

If it were me, I would have hired a private detective 3 years ago.

Respectfully, a PI would be a waste of money. He would not see anything that they have as it is an open homicide case. LE doesn't get the credit it deserves in these cases. They have access to lots of tools and agencies that a PI wouldn't have, including the autopsy report, forensic reports and a lot of other things, like interviews. I know that this was such a horrific crime and against little girls that these detectives live an breath this case, and have pulled out all the stops to find this killer.

 

[Yemelyan]

So I meant that if he were in the military, the DNA would be on file, just to clarify my awkward sentence. So a crime is a crime, doesn't matter if it is done in the military or not. I know that they work with LE. You can state your business and they will comply and respond to your request. Hope that answers your question.

No, not really.

The reason I asked the question in the way I did is because The Department of Defense publishes its guidelines for DNA collection from service members for criminal investigation purposes and it doesn't work at all like you stated. Here it is:

Striving For A Safer World Since 1945 › doddir › dodPDF
DoDI 5505.14

Military DNA records absolutely do not interface with CODIS for comparison to civilian crimes as a routine matter. If a current military member or military contractor is convicted of certain offenses defined under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, there is a specific procedure for collecting his or her DNA (that is totally separate from DNA collected for purposes of military human remains identification) and these records will be uploaded to CODIS for comparison to non-military crimes.

If a military member enlisted, served their time, and was discharged at some point in the past without committing one of these UCMJ offenses while active, there is no DNA information that the military could give to civilian LE jurisdictions investigating crimes, due to expungement regulations.

If LE in the Delphi case was investigating a current service member, and knew their exact identity, there might be some DNA information they could obtain with a probable cause warrant. But if they only suspected that their unknown subject had military ties, there is absolutely no legal way LE would be allowed to troll the entire military DNA database meant for human identification purposes looking for potential DNA matches.

All MOO based on published DoD guidelines.

 

[JimmyWells]

Yes, I was referring to talcum, for whatever reason, ME's rarely use the term.

Birefringent material. A property of a material that has to do with how it refracts light.

You're probably implying that the talc in latex gloves would be the source of this, but there are many other ways birefringent materials could be noted during autopsy, including fibers from possible bindings or even fibers from the car they rode to the trails in.

The autopsy report is sealed.

 

[dotr]

Random speculation, imo.
Some have commented that the perp might have one leg shorter than the other, if that is true, could it be because one shoe is worn down more than the other?
Something that might be observed in the footwear of someone who rides a motorcycle or other mode of transportation that requires one foot to push off or hold up the rider, ie bike, scooter, skateboard ect?

Perp is wearing what appears to be baggy pants that are too long (rolled up at the bottom) could he have lost weight prior to the murders, causing his pants to be
loose and fall down a bit, therefore becoming too long?

On the other hand, maybe he is wearing tighter pants under baggier ones so that he can whip them off and discard, or simply to keep warm?

 

[IceIce9]

Respectfully, a PI would be a waste of money. He would not see anything that they have as it is an open homicide case. LE doesn't get the credit it deserves in these cases. They have access to lots of tools and agencies that a PI wouldn't have, including the autopsy report, forensic reports and a lot of other things, like interviews. I know that this was such a horrific crime and against little girls that these detectives live an breath this case, and have pulled out all the stops to find this killer.

I believe private investigators bring a fresh set of eyes and new perspectives to unsolved cases. They can review information, reinterview witnesses, family members and friends.

Just MOO.

 

[JimmyWells]

I just had a thought after reading this post and I can only speak for myself regarding this matter. I'm wired a little differently in that I'm righty with any power movement, but left with precision. I write and eat lefty, but throw, punch, and shoot righty. I always, always, lead with my left when I walk, get up from a chair, whatever. If someone has a psychology degree here, I'm wondering if they can distinguish his hand dominance from the way he walks. If he's breezing along, we probably can't tell, but if he's leading with a foot, then following with the other, I'd imagine someone could have some insight.

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[Deleted member 102539]

To get control of them, he may have address them; like he needed something or can you guys help me...... Maybe a ruse of some sort and called out to them about something. They could have waited and then realized it was "fishy" and then decided to film him, but by then, too late. One thing I learned from the cases I get to work, is that women are too nice and polite and some kids are raised to "help", that will get you killed. If you think something is off, run. Don't worry about offending someone.

Maybe BG shouted to a nonexistent accomplice (when he turned the head to his left and opened his mouth, in the video) and because of that the girls felt trapped and didn't run? Something like "I got them!" would have been enough perhaps.
ETA: He may have shouted to an existent and waiting accomplice down the hill also. Wouldn't be a difference re the girls' fear.