Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[StarryStarryNight]

Yes the possibilities are endless because whatever the witness saw that was considered suspicious obviously wasn’t suspicious enough at the time for LE to immediately recognize it as a sighting of the prime suspect.

Walking past another person on a rural municipal trail or sitting on a bench who doesn’t make eye contact or say hello could be considered a suspicious sighting especially on the same day of double homicides occurring.

But whatever the witness saw and felt needed reporting was serious and suspicious enough for LE to have that witness sit down with a sketch artist.
LE needs to settle on a lane and stay in it.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

It isn't even a rumor because no one has claimed that he was doing that, which is why I used the word speculated. (It also wasn't an important part of the post, which is why it was in parentheses—like this.)

The speculation was based on information released about the NBG sketch. "The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant [the sketch artist]."

When a comment from LE is that vague, people are going to speculate. I personally doubt that was what the witness saw. For one thing, the possibilities are endless.

I simply inquired any source (random blog, WS comment, YT video, etc.) of the speculation. It seems bizarre, disingenuous, and unnecessary, IMO. Almost as if some are simply trying to twist their theory or profile into “speculation” when the possibilities are endless.

If anything, didn’t MP (via the Dr. Phil show?) make it known a male witness saw “BG” only in passing, and that was from a distance?

 

[Skully]

Without any excuse meant by me: Maybe BG was in trouble with himself since some time (which doesn't have to be for very long). He had to act out (maybe: again) this inner revolt, somewhere, somehow, to end his turmoil and feel functional as quickly as possible. He did know, where to find a possible victim because of stalking or he didn't know and hoped for some opportunity. Maybe he knew the area because of connections to the drug scene. - Many "maybe-s" and only IMO.

I was sort of asking what people do in Delphi to make an honest living, nothing to do with drugs. I know it is a farming community, you can see that just from Google Earth. I guess you can do most any kind of job, but I was wondering if there was something there that was seasonal, like harvest time or cutting the fields, is that something they would hire out? If BG is not from the area, is there a job that he could do there, that would make him sort of invisible and not deal with people or customers. Maybe someone local would know.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I was sort of asking what people do in Delphi to make an honest living, nothing to do with drugs. I know it is a farming community, you can see that just from Google Earth. I guess you can do most any kind of job, but I was wondering if there was something there that was seasonal, like harvest time or cutting the fields, is that something they would hire out? If BG is not from the area, is there a job that he could do there, that would make him sort of invisible and not deal with people or customers. Maybe someone local would know.

Good question.
Other than agriculture, I think Indiana Packing is a big employer but I don’t know if that has a seasonal component.
Would education be considered seasonal? It seems like certain aspects may be. A lot of universities are fairly close. Lots of opportunities for summer research etc.
I’m just thinking out loud.

 

[sandy_80]

But whatever the witness saw and felt needed reporting was serious and suspicious enough for LE to have that witness sit down with a sketch artist.
LE needs to settle on a lane and stay in it.

this was directly after the crime.. so its possible they were grasping at straws...they still look that way

 

[MistyWaters]

But whatever the witness saw and felt needed reporting was serious and suspicious enough for LE to have that witness sit down with a sketch artist.
LE needs to settle on a lane and stay in it.

Only if they’re certain they’re on the right lane should they stay on it. When the killer is arrested and convicted I don’t think anyone will care if he doesn’t resemble either sketch or who was right or wrong regarding any sightings.

 

[Ozoner]

I simply inquired any source (random blog, WS comment, YT video, etc.) of the speculation. It seems bizarre, disingenuous, and unnecessary, IMO. Almost as if some are simply trying to twist their theory or profile into “speculation” when the possibilities are endless.

If anything, didn’t MP (via the Dr. Phil show?) make it known a male witness saw “BG” only in passing, and that was from a distance?

If you read my previous posts carefully, you'll note that I don't agree with that speculation. I mentioned it in order to clarify that that wasn't what I meant by exposing oneself. (I would have thought that my intent was obvious from the context!) The speculation came from another member here on Websleuths. I don't recall which member; it was in one of the previous threads. That member may still be participating in the conversation, which is why I deemed the clarification necessary.

I stand by my assertion that BG's other crimes would be about exerting control and inflicting pain. Indecent exposure wouldn't be his thing.

Since that was the only thing you took issue with from my fairly long post, can I assume that you are in agreement with most of my points?

 

[Silver_produce0]

But whatever the witness saw and felt needed reporting was serious and suspicious enough for LE to have that witness sit down with a sketch artist.
LE needs to settle on a lane and stay in it.

I’m basing this on the assumption that this info was reported after knowing that two girls were murdered. But correct me if I am wrong.

Someone reported seeing *something*. LE received this report and made a sketch but at the time may not have considered this person a suspect. I think it’s unusual to have someone call in a report because they were concerned and the police did not consider this person a suspect until years later. *edited for spelling because I’m a dumb dumb

So what is it that a layperson saw that they thought should be reported that was “dismissed” (for lack of better word) by the police? It must be something somewhat innocuous, right? Otherwise it wouldn’t have been dismissed.

Some speculation on my part:

• Walking away from the known crime scene quickly.
• Walking off the trail (meaning not on the path or being on the private property)
• Passing others on the trail with eyes down and not greeting others on the trail (just unfriendly behavior)
• Gruesome and I hate to say it but maybe washing off a knife in the creek.
• Changing clothes

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m basing this on the assumption that this info was reported after knowing that two girls were murdered. But correct me if I am wrong.

Someone reported seeing *something*. LE received this report and made a sketch but at the time may not have considered this person a suspect. I think it’s unusual to have someone call in a report because they were concerned and the police did not consider this person a suspect until yes are later.

So what is it that a layperson saw that they thought should be reported that was “dismissed” (for lack of better word) by the police? It must be something somewhat innocuous, right? Otherwise it wouldn’t have been dismissed.

Some speculation on my part:

• Walking away from the known crime scene quickly.
• Walking off the trail (meaning not on the path or being on the private property)
• Passing others on the trail with eyes down and not greeting others on the trail (just unfriendly behavior)
• Gruesome and I hate to say it but maybe washing off a knife in the creek.
• Changing clothes

Yes, good examples. As it’s widely known LE asked for people to offer information, what that person reported to be suspicious behaviour on the day of the murders doesn’t mean it would’ve stood out as blatantly suspicious any other time.

 

[Skully]

Good question.
Other than agriculture, I think Indiana Packing is a big employer but I don’t know if that has a seasonal component.
Would education be considered seasonal? It seems like certain aspects may be. A lot of universities are fairly close. Lots of opportunities for summer research etc.
I’m just thinking out loud.

Thanks. Education would not be in line with being invisible. I am thinking he has a one person job, or a job that isolates him, jobs that don't require any contact with others. So lets say you work at the packing plant, he may go unnoticed there, but picking corn, plowing fields, something of that sort would keep you out of sight. It was February and I don't see anything in the fields, but they are plowed. But a packing plant maybe is year round. Just brain storming. Parking in front of the CPS building if it was him, was a good move. No cameras. He managed to just avoid all cameras other than Libby's. I don't think he was hunting, but he could have been, but not at a public park. Is there hunting near by?
Wow, just looked at the packing plant. It is a huge business, for pork and food processing. Lots of employees and truckers. I didn't think of BG being a trucker, until now.

 

[Skully]

Trucker, on the road, can know the area, doesn't have to deal with people, and can come and go. It's a thought as to how he knows the area but isn't from there now.

 

[tarabull]

I agree that his homicidal tendencies haven't gone away. Now that he's committed a double murder, I don't think that anything short of murder will give him the same kind of gratification. I do think that he will kill again—eventually.

If he hasn't killed since 2017, there are three likely reasons:
1) He's dead.
2) He's incarcerated.
3) Finding out that he was captured on audio and video spooked him, so he's remained dormant longer than he would have otherwise. If he knows he's a suspect because police interviewed him at some point, he may remain dormant for a quite a while.

He is likely a sadist, so inflicting pain on others (physical or emotional) may be par for the course for him. He may hit or belittle his wife.

Like I said, I don't think lower-level offenses would provide him with much gratification at this point. He may well have done things like torturing animals and window peeping prior to the murders; those crimes would have given him a sense of control over his victims.

I don't think he's the type who would expose himself; the profile of that type of offender would be very different. (Some people have speculated that the witness for the NBG sketch may have caught him masturbating outdoors, which is possible, especially if it was right after the murders, but that's not the same as deliberately exposing himself.)

It is a virtual certainty that he fantasizes about the murders daily. If the time comes when he can no longer achieve sexual gratification from those fantasies, that's when he'll kill again.

Sketch #1 is option #1
Sketch #2 is either option #2 or #3 (regardless, sketch #2 has "dirt" on sketch #1)

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’m basing this on the assumption that this info was reported after knowing that two girls were murdered. But correct me if I am wrong.

Someone reported seeing *something*. LE received this report and made a sketch but at the time may not have considered this person a suspect. I think it’s unusual to have someone call in a report because they were concerned and the police did not consider this person a suspect until years later. *edited for spelling because I’m a dumb dumb

So what is it that a layperson saw that they thought should be reported that was “dismissed” (for lack of better word) by the police? It must be something somewhat innocuous, right? Otherwise it wouldn’t have been dismissed.

Some speculation on my part:

• Walking away from the known crime scene quickly.
• Walking off the trail (meaning not on the path or being on the private property)
• Passing others on the trail with eyes down and not greeting others on the trail (just unfriendly behavior)
• Gruesome and I hate to say it but maybe washing off a knife in the creek.
• Changing clothes

I like all your possibilities.
My take at the time when LE was explaining where the new sketch came from was that this person contacted police 2 or 3 days after the murders to report something they had seen 2 or 3 days after the murders, not the day of the crime. I may have taken it entirely wrong though, and I do like your list.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Sketch #1 is option #1
Sketch #2 is either option #2 or #3 (regardless, sketch #2 has "dirt" on sketch #1)

Could you explain this please? I’m a little dense today.

 

[tarabull]

Could you explain this please? I’m a little dense today.

The elaboration is in the post I quoted....

Sketch # 1 is DEAD
Sketch # 2 might be in jail or just laying low because THEY HAVE "411" on the "no-longer-living" sketch #1.

 

[MistyWaters]

I like all your possibilities.
My take at the time when LE was explaining where the new sketch came from was that this person contacted police 2 or 3 days after the murders to report something they had seen 2 or 3 days after the murders, not the day of the crime. I may have taken it entirely wrong though, and I do like your list.

Something I just noticed....the sketch was drawn Feb 17th but no mention if that’s the same date the person contacted LE.

“The sketches are not exact, Bryant said. The renderings are a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

The sketch released on Monday was drawn by Bryant on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant.”
Delphi murders update 2019: New suspect sketch, video released

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree that his homicidal tendencies haven't gone away. Now that he's committed a double murder, I don't think that anything short of murder will give him the same kind of gratification. I do think that he will kill again—eventually.

If he hasn't killed since 2017, there are three likely reasons:
1) He's dead.
2) He's incarcerated.
3) Finding out that he was captured on audio and video spooked him, so he's remained dormant longer than he would have otherwise. If he knows he's a suspect because police interviewed him at some point, he may remain dormant for a quite a while.

bbm
^^ This, I'm guessing! IMO

 

[Justice101]

following....

 

[Laughing]

Thanks. Education would not be in line with being invisible. I am thinking he has a one person job, or a job that isolates him, jobs that don't require any contact with others. So lets say you work at the packing plant, he may go unnoticed there, but picking corn, plowing fields, something of that sort would keep you out of sight. It was February and I don't see anything in the fields, but they are plowed. But a packing plant maybe is year round. Just brain storming. Parking in front of the CPS building if it was him, was a good move. No cameras. He managed to just avoid all cameras other than Libby's. I don't think he was hunting, but he could have been, but not at a public park. Is there hunting near by?
Wow, just looked at the packing plant. It is a huge business, for pork and food processing. Lots of employees and truckers. I didn't think of BG being a trucker, until now.

Singing another chorus of my song, but who really pays attention to the person driving the CableTV van? The Internet service van? Package delivery services?

The Rug Doctor? Stanley Steamer? If that van was dirty, well, no surprise there!

Road grader? County dump truck? Indiana state vehicle? Coffee service?

Delivers napkins & dish detergent or food to factory, hospital, and school cafeterias and concession stands for sports venues?

As an example, produced by Google-fu:

AUTO-CHLOR | COMMERCIAL CLEANING SERVICE & SOLUTIONS

Techs in vans come to service your commercial dishwasher every 28 days. Absolutely not suggesting that this company's rep had anything to do with this crime, just intend to push us to think about what kind of vehicle/driver is unremarkable!

Now we'll certainly give those drivers the once-over.

We may never know, of course, we may never know.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Laughing]

@braidbold , there is a Scanner section for members only:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/scanner-chatter.377/

Websleuths' Terms of Service limits discussion of anyone not named by law enforcement.

For clarification, you can click Report in your post & ask a Moderator about it.

jmho ymmv lrr