Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[Spartygirl]

Okay, perhaps it was written incorrectly. "Supt. Carter also said police are searching for anyone with information on a vehicle that was abandoned at CPS DCS Welfare on east County Road 300 between noon and 5 p.m. on February 13, 2017." Delphi, Indiana murders: Police release new video, sketch and audio of suspect in killings of Abigail Williams, Liberty German

Yes, it was written incorrectly and a few days later, it was corrected in a news article,
"

• A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13, 2017
  • We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time
• The location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi, IN
  • The building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant

Indiana State Police releases clarification points on Delphi murder suspect (abc57.com)

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, it was written incorrectly and a few days later, it was corrected in a news article,
"

• A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13, 2017
  • We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time
• The location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi, IN
  • The building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant

Indiana State Police releases clarification points on Delphi murder suspect (abc57.com)

Often I read something and then later can’t find it again. From your link is one of the comments I’ve unsuccessfully searched for.

I wonder how many of the 40000+ total tips are “investigative suggestions”? That’s phrasing it rather kindly because I think what it really means is they don’t require armchair detectives to tell them how to do their jobs!

BBM

• The Multi-Agency Task Force is seeking tips and information about how the subject depicted in the sketch is linked to the Delphi area.
  • The Task Force is not asking for investigative suggestions
  • Tips on the suspect sketch are our main interest

 

[SamisDad]

Not sure if this had been posted. Probably has due to it being a story from Jan/Feb of 2017.

<modsnip: Linked youtube is not an approved source>

 

[Peppery]

How are LE keeping All these sketch contributor witnesses quiet? Seriously we have not heard a peep from anyone of them, after all this time we are not hearing their accounts of what they saw on that day. Why wouldn’t they LE want to have them share their possible sightings it could maybe jog others people minds. MOO

I would be beyond terrified if I thought I had been that close to a double murderer. Honestly, I’d even be scared to talk to LE, though I absolutely would. If I saw his face that closely then he saw mine just as well and how could I be sure he doesn’t have a way to figure out who I am? Especially now with LE thinking he has ties to Delphi, I wouldn’t bring any public attention to myself or my family. My assumption is that the witness who provided the sketch info a few days later (younger man) was either a mom out there with her kids or a teenager.

 

[Spartygirl]

Which came first, the video or still photo of BG or the composite (first released) of the older looking, scruffy guy? I am just wondering if the video influenced the composite. I think, not sure that people were questioned about any suspicious person they may have seen that day. I would hope that was early on, like maybe days into the investigation. We know that the second sketch was actually one of the first ones, but never released. But 2 years later they think this is more accurate. If you had to give a description of a person you may have seen like 3 days ago, just a guy nothing unusual would you be able to do that, and do you trust your memory. I think the younger guy is probably the more correct version. I think they missed it.

I am leaning more towards both sketches were men seen there that day
2 different witnesses, but one saw the older man, sketch #1 and another witness saw sketch #2, but I think LE thought sketch #1 looks more like the video off of Libby's phone, so they released that one.
Their MISTAKE. IMO

((edited to add-- I have little faith in the 2nd sketch as it looks just like another sketch done by the same artist in another Indiana case... when I saw that, I tend to question the validity of 2nd sketch, IMO )

 

[Yemelyan]

Often I read something and then later can’t find it again. From your link is one of the comments I’ve unsuccessfully searched for.

I wonder how many of the 40000+ total tips are “investigative suggestions”? That’s phrasing it rather kindly because I think what it really means is they don’t require armchair detectives to tell them how to do their jobs!

BBM

• The Multi-Agency Task Force is seeking tips and information about how the subject depicted in the sketch is linked to the Delphi area.
  • The Task Force is not asking for investigative suggestions
  • Tips on the suspect sketch are our main interest

I'm guessing the tips were mostly investigative suggestions, along the lines of "you should put up a trail cam in case he returns to the scene of the crime!" "You should run any DNA through Ancestry.com!"

I imagine there were thousands of tips on the handful of the criminals who've happen to resemble the sketch. To this day people are probably still calling in tips on DN, for example.

We know from their own words that some of the investigators have been tipped more than once (let's face it, it's probably more like hundreds of times). Sgt. Holeman said at CrimeCon that one of the tipsters who named him as BG said that their only reservation was that his face was maybe too fat.

 

[Peppery]

Is it safe to assume that since we have two sketches that there are at least two men seen in the area that are unknown to LE? They never said to disregard the older guy sketch, just that it was now secondary to the younger guy. So officially they don’t know who either man is?

 

[Spartygirl]

How are LE keeping All these sketch contributor witnesses quiet? Seriously we have not heard a peep from anyone of them, after all this time we are not hearing their accounts of what they saw on that day. Why wouldn’t they LE want to have them share their possible sightings it could maybe jog others people minds. MOO

I think one was talking a bit at the beginning, IMO,
but I think LE has told them all to NOT talk
I mean, think about it.... not even the families, except Kelsie's podcasts, discuss details. And even Kelsie doesn't really give us much details.
That whole darn town of Delphi is quiet. IMO

 

[Peppery]

I am leaning more towards both sketches were men seen there that day
2 different witnesses, but one saw the older man, sketch #1 and another witness saw sketch #2, but I think LE thought sketch #1 looks more like the video off of Libby's phone, so they released that one.
Their MISTAKE. IMO

YES! And if the older guy is not BG, WHY did he never go to LE? Seems pretty obvious that he was doing something he shouldn’t have been. Otherwise why not clear his name/face and help LE focus on finding the right guy?

 

[Spartygirl]

Is it safe to assume that since we have two sketches that there are at least two men seen in the area that are unknown to LE? They never said to disregard the older guy sketch, just that it was now secondary to the younger guy. So officially they don’t know who either man is?

That is my take on it

 

[Spartygirl]

I believe LE did not realize they missed something in the beginning. As a speculative example, allowing someone to retrieve and drive away in their vehicle that was parked oddly close to the crime scene. That would have been a serious derailment to later efforts if they found the right track.

And then there is that !!!

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Continuing the topic from the most recent thread, other than more audio I concur the most valuable release would be greater info re the car at the CPS building. Something apparently shifted focus more toward local, based on where that car traveled on February 13th.

I'm kind of astonished none of the reporters or podcasters ever ask a string of questions to Carter or Leazenby or Riley toward whether or not Bridge Guy was ever filmed on a camera other than Libby's. Even at faraway distance that would include footage from the security camera across from the CPS building, depicting basics if not enough to conclusively identify the driver or car. The high profile missed opportunity was when the female host of "Down the Hill" asked Carter what percentage of events law enforcement was confident it understood. Carter provided a surprisingly candid and interesting response, saying 2/3...the beginning and end but not the middle. That should have automatically set off questions toward the beginning and end...the comings and goings. Somehow it did not, or at least not that we heard.

From the Freedom Bridge area, East Main Street leads directly into downtown Delphi. That road had by far the greatest potential for point to point security camera tracking, kind of like "See No Evil." I hope law enforcement was sharp enough to recognize and gather that type of evidence, although that may be doubtful given the lag to April 2019 before the car becomes a big deal.

From this satellite image you can see the basics of the layout near Freedom Bridge. The same exit from Hoosier Heartland Highway (State Road 25) is best both ways. Only 50 yards or thereabouts from the bridge. Going south it is a sharp exit to the right, while going north you get in the left lane then use the median to cross over. The Freedom Bridge parking area is top center of the link, the hershey shaped gravel area. Drag the map downward and slightly left and you can see the CPS building still visible at top right in the 2017 imagery. Then drag the map in the other direction and you can follow East Main Street all the way into downtown Delphi -- perhaps one mile -- to get a feel for all the homes and businesses the car would have eventually driven past, if he went that way. You don't have to know specifically which ones had cameras. Guaranteed plenty did:

Google Maps

BBM

Is it possible that whatever happened in the middle was not sexual?
Everything that I have read, not including on here, DNA doesn’t seem to be a factor, which leads me to believe it may not be sexual.

But I have not read through all of the 120-something threads either.

 

[Spartygirl]

I'm not sure of much of anything however, just been wondering if BG killed himself once he realized (via initial reporting) the girls had recorded him even if he understood it was (only?) by way of a photograph...

:thinking:

ETA: This has likely been discussed previously...I did try the "search" feature fwiw

I am just going to jump in on this thought because I think it is a big possibility this happened.
If you look at obits, etc.. there are a few men who died and according to obits, were not married so nobody for an alibi.
No cause of death or donations to any organization.
Suicide ???
He Did not realize the case would get so national and FBI called in??
Very interesting thought as to WHY BG has NOT been caught yet.

 

[Sillybilly]

Not sure if this had been posted. Probably has due to it being a story from Jan/Feb of 2017.

<modsnip: Linked youtube is not an approved source>

There was discussion about the flashers back in Thread #10 and again in Thread #20.

 

[Spartygirl]

I would be beyond terrified if I thought I had been that close to a double murderer. Honestly, I’d even be scared to talk to LE, though I absolutely would. If I saw his face that closely then he saw mine just as well and how could I be sure he doesn’t have a way to figure out who I am? Especially now with LE thinking he has ties to Delphi, I wouldn’t bring any public attention to myself or my family. My assumption is that the witness who provided the sketch info a few days later (younger man) was either a mom out there with her kids or a teenager.

BUT... what if you were a teenage girl, out with friends and ran into him??
He walked by you to get Abby and Libby??
Why not her? or her friends??
WHY Abby and Libby??
We have heard there were others there that day...did the witnesses walk past him??
Did they interact with him, make eye contact? say "hi" ??
Were there other young girls there, I believe, Yes, there were yet why didnt he go after them??
Was there one guy or one girl there?? why not this person??
My belief is they were targeted. JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

BBM

Is it possible that whatever happened in the middle was not sexual?
Everything that I have read, not including on here, DNA doesn’t seem to be a factor, which leads me to believe it may not be sexual.

But I have not read through all of the 120-something threads either.

I am on the fence with sexual purpose.
But, I am a minority thinking they were targeted however I will not dismiss sexual assault as part of the attack.

 

[Spartygirl]

I believe that's a resounding "Yes" to LE being misled early on. If you take ISP Carter words, "Directly to the killer....For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have....We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day, you will." at face value....
1. He was addressing the killer.
2. He told the killer, LE knew that for more than two years they thought what he, the killer, was comfortable with them thinking.
3. LE then announced to the killer they were seeking to change their strategy to catch him and know this is going to upset the killer's need to know what LE is thinking.

This is AJMO, I hear in those words that yes indeed LE was misled by the killer and it was an ongoing sort of thing, not just a very early on, one time instance of trickery.

I am going to go a step more and say
I think it was very early on, JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Thanks Jax, I do remember this now. Admittedly I am forgetting things as it's going on four years.

Ives said: 'Even though at the crime scene there was a lot of physical evidence of one sort of another which would lead logically to one person or another, it never led to one particular person.'

Physical evidence refers to any item that comes from a nonliving origin, while biological evidence always originates from a living being. The most important kinds of physical evidence are fingerprints, tire marks, footprints, fibers , paint, and building materials .

Robert Ives was the Prosecuting Attorney (DA). He stepped down. Nicholas McLeland was voted in by precinct leaders. Mayor Shane Evans stepped down to work as chief deputy prosecutor under McLeland.
The PA/DA decides if there is enough evidence for an arrest. So he presumingly has access to all the evidence and ins and outs of the case. Let's not forget Superior Court Judge Kurtis Fouts stepped down after his scandal. Too many connections for my taste.

So going back to Ive's quote above, I'm keeping in mind that any interviews with the PA/DA is jaded with them subconsciously defending why they haven't brought charges.

Yes.. politicians, "the community will be shocked"
"what will your family think?"
Follow the money ???
OR--"follow the first searches made by LE, with warrants" ???

 

[MistyWaters]

YES! And if the older guy is not BG, WHY did he never go to LE? Seems pretty obvious that he was doing something he shouldn’t have been. Otherwise why not clear his name/face and help LE focus on finding the right guy?

I can think of a reason. Somebody may’ve indeed come toward but as time passed, the witness/s weren’t sure if that was the same person they saw. Compounding the difficulty of identification, its unlikely both would’ve had reason to note the exact time each was at a specific location. More often people might remember a time range. So if the witness wasn’t 100% certain that’s who he or she sighted, neither were 100% certain they were at the same place at the same time, then LE cannot clear a sketch, remembering a sketch is not a photo.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

If this case was misled early on, I’d guess it pertained to this below, a sort of NIMBY, a suggestion of a transient, a stranger just passing through. I can just imagine it led to everyone who regularly drove the highways to start wracking their brains “Did I see somebody, what day was that?”, then maybe even convincing themselves it probably was that particular Monday and sure, his clothing was the same as the guy in the photo which has already been released. It’s simply human nature for human memories to sometimes be influenced by suggestive details. At most, motorists likely would’ve passed by in their vehicle and barely caught a glimpse. But once LE began getting calls by numerous people who all thought they saw the suspect on the highway, it firmed up their theory and thus, the later release of the sketch of the ragged looking guy. As time passed it’s possible many of these witnesses began to become uncertain.

JMO

Feb 20, 2017
See somebody walking near Delphi? Call police
“If you saw a hitchhiker or somebody walking along roads in Delphi last week, the police would like to talk to you. You could help find who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

Police are asking the public to try and remember if you saw somebody Monday, Feb. 13 in the late afternoon or evening.

"We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police...”

Right-- so we go from Hitchhiker, someone WALKING to a vehicle parked at the old CPS building lot ???
was BG walking towards the vehicle parked, like along side the road, 300N ??
or are they looking outside of that area for a walker/hitchhiker?
if that is the case,that they are looking for hitchhiker outside bridge area, then the vehicle parked doesnt come into play.
If anyone was walking on 300N, towards the CPS building, they would stick out if passing vehicles or homes on that street saw them if they were walking towards or away from the old CPS building. JMO