Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[Spartygirl]

By the time people began sifting through stranger’s FB photos looking for a match I’m sort of disappointed LE didn’t loudly stress the fact a sketch isn’t a photo and memories are certainly not always precise. Or that the 2nd sketch was already 2 years old so there was a high likelihood the suspect didn’t look exactly the same 2 years later, even if the sketch was roughly accurate at the time.

Carter’s later attempt to backtrack by suggesting the suspect might look something between the two sketches further muddied the waters as it still gives the notion both sketches were a precise recreation of exactly who different people saw. Maybe because he didn’t want to say the suspect is between the ages of 18 and 60, caucasian with 2 eyes, a nose and a mouth.

And yet, he did say BG could look like both sketches.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM

Is it possible that whatever happened in the middle was not sexual?
Everything that I have read, not including on here, DNA doesn’t seem to be a factor, which leads me to believe it may not be sexual.

But I have not read through all of the 120-something threads either.

IIRC statistics have been posted here indicating DNA is not present in all sexually motivated crimes. Before DNA technological advancements in the 90s, criminals would’ve had no idea their DNA could be traced by bodily fluids. But in the more recent 20 or so years after DNA identification became widely known, I’d guess often SA crimes are no longer being committed in the same “old-fashioned” way.

 

[MistyWaters]

And yet, he did say BG could look like both sketches.

Seems to me he doesn’t want people to get fixated on either sketch being an exact likeness of the suspect.

 

[MistyWaters]

Right-- so we go from Hitchhiker, someone WALKING to a vehicle parked at the old CPS building lot ???
was BG walking towards the vehicle parked, like along side the road, 300N ??
or are they looking outside of that area for a walker/hitchhiker?
if that is the case, then the vehicle parked doesnt come into play.
If anyone was walking on 300N, towards the CPS building, they would stick out if passing vehicles or homes on that street saw them if they were walking towards or away from the old CPS building. JMO

I think they’re just looking for somebody who is able to identify the suspect while providing the public various options, as opposed to feeding us clues. If LE knew everything about him, then they’d know his identity as well and they’d have no need for tips.

 

[Peppery]

IIRC statistics have been posted here indicating DNA is not present in all sexually motivated crimes. Before DNA technological advancements in the 90s, criminals would’ve had no idea their DNA could be traced by bodily fluids. But in the more recent 20 or so years after DNA identification became widely known, I’d guess often SA crimes are no longer being committed in the same “old-fashioned” way.

I was thinking more along the lines of dna under their fingernails. If he was close enough to sexually assault them, they would’ve been clawing at him. The only way to prevent dna from getting under their nails is if both had their hands restrained first OR he was completely covered. I’m leaning toward him being covered. Just from the video all we can see is his face. He could’ve had a ski mask on his head/under the hoodie and possibly gloves. There would be very little skin exposed and very slim chances either girl got any dna under her nails.

And on the slim (IMO) chance that this was not a sexually motivated crime, I still think he was very close physically when they were actually murdered. I don’t think they were shot and just about any other MOD would require pretty close physical proximity. That would also allow a good chance for dna under the nails unless he was fully covered. Also the impression LE has given up hat this was especially gruesome scene makes me think he was very close to them. Moo

 

[Spartygirl]

I think they’re just looking for somebody who is able to identify the suspect while providing the public various options, as opposed to feeding us clues. If LE knew everything about him, then they’d know his identity as well and they’d have no need for tips.

But the parked car at the old CPS building is a definite from LE
One of the few things LE has said.
I am just curious about this since one of their first releases mentions a hitchhiker.
Now they are questioning a vehicle parked at CPS ??
either LE knows something or they are fishing.
This case drives me crazy
it has the past 3.75 years. UGH

 

[Spartygirl]

YES! And if the older guy is not BG, WHY did he never go to LE? Seems pretty obvious that he was doing something he shouldn’t have been. Otherwise why not clear his name/face and help LE focus on finding the right guy?

Because he committed suicide or died ???
No family to question his involvement ??
JMO

 

[pearl]

I am going to go a step more and say
I think it was very early on, JMO

Yes indeed very early on. Something within the timeframe of the earliest days of the investigation and July of that year when the first sketch was released. I can see the first sketch as a (to my untrained eyes) close match to what I see in the still picture. I just do not see any resemblance between the second sketch and the still picture or the video. What could have happened during this time? I have no idea. I do have good reasoning skills and an active imagination that would get us no where.

 

[Spartygirl]

I was thinking more along the lines of dna under their fingernails. If he was close enough to sexually assault them, they would’ve been clawing at him. The only way to prevent dna from getting under their nails is if both had their hands restrained first OR he was completely covered. I’m leaning toward him being covered. Just from the video all we can see is his face. He could’ve had a ski mask on his head/under the hoodie and possibly gloves. There would be very little skin exposed and very slim chances either girl got any dna under her nails.

And on the slim (IMO) chance that this was not a sexually motivated crime, I still think he was very close physically when they were actually murdered. I don’t think they were shot and just about any other MOD would require pretty close physical proximity. That would also allow a good chance for dna under the nails unless he was fully covered. Also the impression LE has given up hat this was especially gruesome scene makes me think he was very close to them. Moo

I,also, was hoping for DNA under fingernails, especially Libby's--being the fighter we have heard she was.
I also believe he was VERY close to them when he killed them, no gunshot so hoping that some of his DNA got on the girls.
Problem is, there would be a lot of DNA at and around the CS with all the searchers, etc so LE has to wade through all that.
I am praying LE has DNA from under fingernails. but we dont know if he that white thing under coat is a scarf he could have pulled up over face and we dont know if his hands had gloves on as his hands are in jacket pocket in the photos LE shows

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes indeed very early on. Something within the timeframe of the earliest days of the investigation and July of that year when the first sketch was released. I can see the first sketch as a (to my untrained eyes) close match to what I see in the still picture. I just do not see any resemblance between the second sketch and the still picture or the video. What could have happened during this time? I have no idea. I do have good reasoning skills and an active imagination that would get us no where.

BBM
HA!! you and me both !!

 

[MistyWaters]

But the parked car at the old CPS building is a definite from LE
One of the few things LE has said.
I am just curious about this since one of their first releases mentions a hitchhiker.
Now they are questioning a vehicle parked at CPS ??
either LE knows something or they are fishing.
This case drives me crazy
it has the past 3.75 years. UGH

Carter never said the car was believed to be connected to the suspect, just that they were looking for the driver. In fact during that PC he asked for the driver to “please” contact the Delphi PD. So I’ve always thought LE was innocuously attempting to locate somebody who’d provided a tip, who they wanted to speak with once again but had no other means of contacting.

He initially got the date wrong and bungled what was abandoned. It was as if an officer might’ve passed on the request to contact almost at the last minute. If not, Carter sure wasn’t very familiar with the case.

 

[Spartygirl]

Carter never said the car was believed to be connected to the suspect, just that they were looking for the driver. In fact during that PC he asked for the driver to “please” contact the Delphi PD. I’ve always thought LE was innocuously attempting to locate somebody who’d provided a tip, who they wanted to speak with once again but had no other means of contacting.

That is how I perceived it also.
LE happened to know a vehicle was parked there during that time frame.
LE does NOT say it could be BG vehicle.
But--perhaps whoever owns the vehicle was there, might have seen something.

 

[Dotrat]

I think one was talking a bit at the beginning, IMO,
but I think LE has told them all to NOT talk
I mean, think about it.... not even the families, except Kelsie's podcasts, discuss details. And even Kelsie doesn't really give us much details.
That whole darn town of Delphi is quiet. IMO

MOO, for sure they were told not to but I really don’t think I would be able to stay quiet after all this time, I mean I wouldn't want to jeopardize the investigation but...what if that info contains that one piece someone else needs to come forward.
It is beyond frustrating!

How do they manage to keep ANYONE/EVERYONE from talking? Threat of prosecution?

 

[MistyWaters]

That is how I perceived it also.
LE happened to know a vehicle was parked there during that time frame.
LE does NOT say it could be BG vehicle.
But--perhaps whoever owns the vehicle was there, might have seen something.

Exactly, or the person might’ve originally talked to LE and told them they were parked at that location from noon to 5pm. LE certainly wouldn’t want to mention that persons name or they would’ve instantly became a #1 SM suspect, so revealing certain details is the best they could do. IIRC during one of the recent podcasts it was mentioned here the car is no longer of interest?

 

[Spartygirl]

MOO, for sure they were told not to but I really don’t think I would be able to stay quiet after all this time, I mean I wouldn't want to jeopardize the investigation but...what if that info contains that one piece someone else needs to come forward.
It is beyond frustrating!

How do they manage to keep ANYONE/EVERYONE from talking? Threat of prosecution?

I know, right???
How the heck does a whole town, keep quiet??
Why???

 

[Spartygirl]

Exactly, or the person might’ve originally talked to LE and told them they were parked at that location from noon to 5pm. LE certainly wouldn’t want to mention that persons name or they would’ve instantly became a #1 SM suspect, so revealing certain details is the best they could do. IIRC during one of the recent podcasts it was mentioned here the car is no longer of interest?

I remember reading no longer interest but cannot find the quote

 

[Spartygirl]

Carter never said the car was believed to be connected to the suspect, just that they were looking for the driver. In fact during that PC he asked for the driver to “please” contact the Delphi PD. So I’ve always thought LE was innocuously attempting to locate somebody who’d provided a tip, who they wanted to speak with once again but had no other means of contacting.

He initially got the date wrong and bungled what was abandoned. It was as if an officer might’ve passed on the request to contact almost at the last minute. If not, Carter sure wasn’t very familiar with the case.

We parked at the old CPS building parking lot
We walked from there to FB
I felt like I was completely out in the open as anyone would be if a car drove by. I mean, we were right along side the road
cars would have had to move over even with us walking on the little path to FB.

 

[MistyWaters]

MOO, for sure they were told not to but I really don’t think I would be able to stay quiet after all this time, I mean I wouldn't want to jeopardize the investigation but...what if that info contains that one piece someone else needs to come forward.
It is beyond frustrating!

How do they manage to keep ANYONE/EVERYONE from talking? Threat of prosecution?

I’d guess witnesses don’t want to make the case about themselves and instead have placed their trust in LE and the victims’ family members to manage interface with the media. But how could any witness possibly know for sure they sighted the killer as they weren’t an eye-witness to the murders? The implications of speaking out and then being wrong would seem high risk to me.

 

[Silver_produce0]

Is it safe to assume that since we have two sketches that there are at least two men seen in the area that are unknown to LE? They never said to disregard the older guy sketch, just that it was now secondary to the younger guy. So officially they don’t know who either man is?

I’d have to go back and find the articles but it has been reported that the sketches are for sure two different people and that the sketch resembling the older male was not considered a suspect at the time and that the young sketch was the killer.

The article I read was pretty clear to state that.

However in a later article Leazenby or Carter was quoted and it somewhat contradicted that

I do think that the new direction is that they had more witnesses who saw old guy at the bridge and they investigated him and something didn’t totally fit with him. Then, they realized they’d accounted for almost everyone known to be at near the crime scene. New direction is the process of elimination with 1 unidentified person... young sketch.

cant recall who asked but I believe Kelsi was on a podcast or YouTube show and implied that the vehicle at the CPS building was not something they consider particularly relevant to the crime anymore. Idk how they’d know - I think it’s relevant as a potential witness!!

 

[minazoe]

BBM

Is it possible that whatever happened in the middle was not sexual?
Everything that I have read, not including on here, DNA doesn’t seem to be a factor, which leads me to believe it may not be sexual.

But I have not read through all of the 120-something threads either.

its always sexual, always. mOO