Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[SkipperKey3]

OT

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL. May 2021 bring closure to this case.

And to you . May there finally be a resolution to this. The girls and their families deserve justice.
I never thought it would go this long. But it has, and here we are on thread #128.

 

[Jax49]

And to you . May there finally be a resolution to this. The girls and their families deserve justice.
I never thought it would go this long. But it has, and here we are on thread #128.

Happy New Year everyone. Please let this be the year this case is solved.

 

[ReadySet]

Maybe they really are "Delphi Strong" and are putting their desire to see the case solved and the killer brought to justice ahead of their need to talk about it.

This has puzzled me from very early on. The relative silence from the people of Delphi. The buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened among themselves is important in my opinion and pretty much doesn’t exist here. It’s very weird.

 

[Ozoner]

This has puzzled me from very early on. The relative silence from the people of Delphi. The buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened among themselves is important in my opinion and pretty much doesn’t exist here. It’s very weird.

Why would the "buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened" be important? They'd be speculating just as much as we are. Much off that buzz would probably revolve around naming suspects against whom townsfolk had personal grudges.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I think he lives in plain sight in another state and LE is aware of this.

Are we also aware of this?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

And to you . May there finally be a resolution to this. The girls and their families deserve justice.
I never thought it would go this long. But it has, and here we are on thread #128.

I hope and pray that there is resolution far before there are another 128 threads.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Why would the "buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened" be important? They'd be speculating just as much as we are. Much off that buzz would probably revolve around naming suspects against whom townsfolk had personal grudges.

You don’t think that locals in a very small town would have a better educated guess or theory than randoms on the internet, who may not even reside in the states?

edit — I should say, there are (at least were) FB groups dedicated to the young girls who featured comments from locals. I wouldn’t be surprised if many were hush for fear of legality issues.

 

[margarita25]

Rsbm

Why would the "buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened" be important? They'd be speculating just as much as we are.

You don’t think that locals in a very small town would have a better educated guess or theory than randoms on the internet, who may not even reside in the states?

I’m behind in the conversation, but to jump in here and reply specifically to your post, without knowing the context of the previous posts, let me provide an example of why locals don’t always have a better theory:

In Jessica Ridgeway’s case, it was the locals who had the most far off rumors...“My husband is a cop and works at so and so”...they sounded legit, but it all turned out to be wrong and total BS. I found the local buzz to be much more off base than much of what I had read. Now this is not to say there are not internet rumors because we all know that is not true, (understatement); however I did learn a valuable lesson from that whole experience, that just because buzz may come from local sources, it doesn’t make it true, and sometimes local buzz and rumors are accelerated. That’s why when someone is local in a case, I don’t always accept it as the be all end all. I also noticed that during Jessica’s case, I even disagreed amongst some locals, even on basic information wrt terrain, etc, after all, much is subjective, etc. jmo. So yeah, unless the locals are privy to inside information, which often they are not, they might not necessarily know more than others who may not be local, and in fact, there be actually be more clouding of the truth, imo. But this is not always true, and sometimes, as you mentioned, locals do have a better feel for the case, it just depends. I’ve seen it go both ways.

eta / @thx4_medic_Babby
I want to be clear, again being behind in the conversation, that locals may indeed sometimes have insight/information, wrt tips, etc., just not always. I hope my example made sense. Obviously local tips could mean a lot, as the local may be a witness, or know someone personally whose actions may have been suspicious, or may have heard talk which is indeed applicable, etc. I hope my above example didn’t indicate that local insight is not valuable, because that certainly isn’t the case. Without beating a dead horse and to finalize, I was basically just saying the rumors were crazy on the local front in Jessica’s case, and was speaking specifically as to that experience.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

I’m behind in the conversation, but to reply specifically to your post, without knowing the context of the previous posts, let me provide an example.

In Jessica Ridgeway’s case, it was the locals who had the most far off rumors...“My husband is a cop and works at so and so”...they sounded legit, but it all turned out to be wrong and BS. I found the local buzz to be much more off base than much of what I had read. Now this is not to say there are not internet rumors because we all know that is not true, (understatement); however I did learn a valuable lesson from that whole experience that just because buzz may come from local sources, it doesn’t make it true, and sometimes local buzz is accelerated. That’s why when someone who is local in a case, I don’t always accept it as the be all end all, and I also noticed that during Jessica’s case, I even disagreed with some locals, after all, much is subjective, etc. jmo.

I am unfamiliar with this case, but a quick search tells me the murder occurred in a town of over 100,000 residents. Delphi has less than 3,000 if memory serves right. That’s a huge disparity, albeit I understand the point.

 

[margarita25]

I am unfamiliar with this case, but a quick search tells me the murder occurred in a town of over 100,000 residents. Delphi has less than 3,000 if memory serves right. That’s a huge disparity, albeit I understand the point.

I added a couple sentences to the end of my post.

My guess is the local rumors are beyond elevated, just as they are on the internet, but maybe even worse. The local aspect, imo, can provide further opportunity, due to heightened interest and gossip, for things to grow legs. Shoot, the untrue atrocities I heard at the local bar in Jessica’s case...

Again, I have no idea what you guys are referring to specifically, just weighing in imo on the aspect of local validity, that that certainly isn’t a factor of authenticity, but of course this is not to say that it always works this way, and often of course local insight is valid, especially in the way I mentioned in the above post wrt witness accounts, etc.

I know that in my community, we were all looking at everyone, wondering if they could be the killer, and I’ll tell ya that is the worst, scariest feeling I think I’ve probably ever had. Everyone was a suspect, imo. Everyone...the guy next to me in the grocery line...argh, this community, I can’t even imagine how terrified they must be. I moved and changed work locations as a result, even after there was an arrest.

Please see my eta in above post, @thx4_medic_Babby

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

I added a couple sentences to the end of my post.

My guess is the local rumors are beyond elevated, just as they are on the internet, but maybe even worse. The local aspect, imo, can provide further opportunity, due to heightened interest and gossip, for things to grow legs. Shoot, the untrue atrocities I heard at the local bar in Jessica’s case...

Again, I have no idea what you guys are referring to specifically, just weighing in imo on the aspect of local validity, that that certainly isn’t a factor of authenticity, but of course this is not to say that it always works this way, and often of course local insight is valid.

I know that in my community, we were all looking at everyone, wondering if they could be the one, and I’ll tell ya that is the worst, scariest feeling I think I’ve probably ever had.

Interesting, and thank you for sharing. There have been locals who have given interesting POIs and drug connections in regards to Delphi in recent past. You just won’t find much helpful wordage here as “gossip” is worthy of deletion and moderation.

Of course any local could have a biased lens, or ulterior motive for redirection, I just thought it was strange to dismiss a potential comment from a local who likely knows more than we, outsiders.

I will say this to hop back on topic: late searching, lack of securing a crime scene, unofficial search parties, etc. is some of the worst police work imaginable. Hopefully it won’t ever hinder a potential case.

 

[margarita25]

Dbm consolidate

 

[BNA]

This has puzzled me from very early on. The relative silence from the people of Delphi. The buzz about the case, what people are thinking happened among themselves is important in my opinion and pretty much doesn’t exist here. It’s very weird.

As I noted earlier, part of the reason that the community seems silent is that there simply has not been enough REAL news coverage of the story.....not enough investigative journalism.....at least not enough that the media has made public.

It seems downright weird to me.

It suggests that something is just not right about what is going on here.

 

[Ozoner]

You don’t think that locals in a very small town would have a better educated guess or theory than randoms on the internet, who may not even reside in the states?

Snipped
No, I don't. Not at all. @margarita25 gave some good reasons.

To put it simply, locals will often latch onto the first titillating rumor that someone comes up with and run with it. Moreover, in a small town like Delphi, most of the locals probably don't have much of a background in criminal profiling or law enforcement. Not only that, but locals are often too personally affected by a crime like this to maintain any kind of objectivity.

I value opinions here more than I would value the opinions of locals. Many Websleuths members have backgrounds in LE or have been following true crime long enough to be able to draw parallels with other cases. (I don't have an LE background, but I've been following true crime stories for about thirty-five years and have read quite a few books and articles on profiling.)

Although even without further journalism, locals still have access to private, local chatter — as well as videos, descriptions, etc. we’ve all seen.

That private, local chatter is called "gossip."

 

[Ozoner]

As I noted earlier, part of the reason that the community seems silent is that there simply has not been enough REAL news coverage of the story.....not enough investigative journalism.....at least not enough that the media has made public.

It seems downright weird to me.

It suggests that something is just not right about what is going on here.

There isn't a lot that the media can investigate. If LE had released more details, then an investigative journalist could look for parallels with other cases, but LE has been incredibly tight lipped. We don't know how the girls were killed, we don't know whether they fought back, we don't know whether they were posed, we don't know whether any kind of sexual assault occurred—nothing. It makes it very difficult to even come up with a profile of the killer. All we have is some blurry video and about one second of audio.

 

[stattlich1]

I live in a small town.

What I'm currently trying to imagine is, what person would it be that I and my neighbors just KNEW did such a crime but ALL of us were afraid to speak much, if at all, about it.

Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Yemelyan]

I will say this to hop back on topic: late searching, lack of securing a crime scene, unofficial search parties, etc. is some of the worst police work imaginable. Hopefully it won’t ever hinder a potential case.

Snipped and bolded by me.

What's the proof that LE failed to secure the crime scene? Do you have a source for this or is it your speculation? They only knew that area of Ron Logan's property was a crime scene after the girls' bodies were discovered in the morning of the 14th. I don't think you can call "letting civilians search for missing juveniles" a failure to secure the crime scene as everybody thought they were searching for lost girls, not murdered girls. LE thought they were doing search and recovery work, not criminal investigation work.

To me, "failure to secure the crime scene" is like what happened in the JonBenet Ramsay case. By virtue of the ransom note, LE had good reason to believe that a crime happened in that house and yet allowed family to stay there and friends come over and wander around. That's not at all analogous to how the crime scene was discovered or treated in Delphi.

 

[heartgoesout]

I know I've disagreed with a lot you've said on here @minazoe, but this is something that is absolutely true IMO. Sometimes I see people say "maybe it wasn't sexual, maybe he just got a thrill out of killing"...yes, but that thrill is sexual. He may not do anything a normal person would recognize as sexual at the scene, perhaps nothing that would even leave DNA. That's where the signatures often come in. He then re-lives the experience many times over in his sexual fantasies.

I disagree that it is always sexual. There is intense rage.

 

[Yemelyan]

I disagree that it is always sexual. There is intense rage.

Maybe for the mass shooter type of offender (though I'd still say that their rage is often tied up in sexual inadequacy so sexual issues are still at play).

But for the type of criminal who abducts a child and kills them, which is what was being discussed? Outside of domestic violence-type incidents, that's sexual a massive, overwhelming amount of the time.

The reason the sexual motivation in murders may not always be immediately apparent to you (especially if what you'd define as "sexual activity" did not occur during the crime) is that normal people associate sexual desire with the urge to experience pleasure. But for most of these offenders sexual desire is tied to anger, to the urge to dominate, control, punish, hurt.

 

[TedMac]

Maybe for the mass shooter type of offender (though I'd still say that their rage is often tied up in sexual inadequacy so sexual issues are still at play).

But for the type of criminal who abducts a child and kills them, which is what was being discussed? Outside of domestic violence-type incidents, that's sexual a massive, overwhelming amount of the time.

The reason the sexual motivation in murders may not always be immediately apparent to you (especially if what you'd define as "sexual activity" did not occur during the crime) is that normal people associate sexual desire with the urge to experience pleasure. But for most of these offenders sexual desire is tied to anger, to the urge to dominate, control, punish, hurt.

Totally agree. One of our verified insider experts, who is a criminal investigator (retired) stated a while back that outside of parental custody fights, anytime a child is abducted and or killed, the motive is almost always sexual.