Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[sandy_80]

some viewers of THE DTH show, WHO ACTUALLY VISITED THE AREA are angry cause the camera angle the show was using of the bridge.. to give a wrong impression to fit into the scripted version they presenting of events ( that the girls were trapped or somthin ) .. and this could be seen as a way of manipulation

 

[MichelleBlue]

But does it fly in court? How is the legal side of it?

Can you go to court with the cup you pulled out of a thrash bin?

Yes, the case of the "Bike Path Rapist" Altemio Sanchez is a good example:

"They (police) follow Sanchez and his wife Kathleen to a restaurant Sole and obtain a glass he used. They also follow him to Border’s bookstore and obtain a coffee cup he used."

He was arrested days later.

After Diver's death, investigation gained steam

It is also an interesting case because Sanchez had originally been a POI in a previous rape but ruled out because his uncle was not truthful that Sanchez was using his car the time span of that crime. Imo it could be a similar situation here that someone's dishonesty during police questioning could be keeping a POI from being revealed. Imo

Eta: cleaned up some of my details about the cousin. Eta again it was an uncle, not a cousin, & I went down a rabbit hole!

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I don’t know about the poem, because I did not connect Murders to st. Valentine and thought the connection was random, snow day.

But today, reading about that mysterious saint, I have found out:

- that St. Valentine’s holiday is the other form of pagan Lupercalia. So if, for example, the person reads into the history, and a goat hide, cut into strings, especially with blood on it, was found in the CS, this to me would indicate what kind of books the killer would be interested in, and in general, the area of his knowledge. (So maybe the “random” issues on the CS are not so random, I want to say, but one has to know the connection?)

- that possibly, the first “Valentine” was written by St. Valentine himself

But the first known Valentine was written by Charles, Duc D’Orleans, in Tower.

Here it is:

“My very gentle Valentine,
Since for me you were born too soon,
And I for you was born too late.
God forgives him who has estranged
Me from you for the whole year.
I am already sick of love,
My very gentle Valentine.”


So if we knew that a letter was found, and its contents, perhaps we could find the origin.

I suspect that if the dude writes poems, he probably plagiarizes. The poems of Charles of Orleans (a lot) are on Goodreads, maybe look for something there?

Interesting! It could just have been a regular Valentine card with a romantic saying too.

 

[MistyWaters]

It is interesting that for a while, there were discussions about Libby’s shoe found in the driveway, but no details provided. My question would be, whose driveway?

But with time, all these shoe discussions petered out.

The discussion related to the dirt road that runs right under the end of the bridge, ending as up as driveway to the residence which was reportedly unoccupied as the owners were snowbirds. From the end of the bridge, then “down the hill”, this road would have to be crossed to get to the river bank and to the other side of the river.

 

[Skully]

The discussion related to the dirt road that runs right under the end of the bridge, ending as up as driveway to the residence which was reportedly unoccupied as the owners were snowbirds. From the end of the bridge, then “down the hill”, this road would have to be crossed to get to the river bank and to the other side of the river.

I wonder if they checked out this house to see if anyone was in it recently? Lots of snowbird houses are broken into or used while owners are away if no one is checking on them. He could have changed or cleaned up, hid while the search was on going, anything. Just a thought.

 

[minazoe]

with up to 50 people in the park that day, something seems amiss...UNTIL you see how the girls were taken a good ways away from the bridge, nearly a 1/4 mile. It doesn't look like they were that far from up on the high bridge, but from the ground it's not really visible. it's secluded and the reporter in the doc comments that the small area where the girls were located, is a bowl shaped indentation in the landscape. so if you're walking around you might not see anything, as this crime would be happening beneath the horizon.

I think if he was hanging out looking for a random victim, a lot more people would have seen him, he may have been there at the park periodically even.

how lucky would he have been to find his victims on the first time out, fully equipped and ready to kill?

wonder if that location has any meaning for the killer? was it a special spot if you hang in the park? has anything ever occurred there prior ? fights? rapes? trouble? arrests?

the idea that the killer could have been lingering there all evening makes me sick mOO

 

[minazoe]

let's say the killer got out of there...then maybe if he lives in the area ( doubtful but maybe).
or at least less than 1 hr away..he goes home, cleans up and does what just about EVERY MAN in Delphi did that evening, he gets out there in the park with a flashlight.

this way he can hang out, hide, see what's going on, return to his victims when the coast is clear..

mOO

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if they checked out this house to see if anyone was in it recently? Lots of snowbird houses are broken into or used while owners are away if no one is checking on them. He could have changed or cleaned up, hid while the search was on going, anything. Just a thought.

I don’t recall the source because the discussion was quite some time ago but iirc a son was checking on the house from time to time while his parents were away. Maybe someone recalls the source of that information that’s otherwise buried in these threads. The access road to that property was barricaded to contain the crime scene according to this map so I’d be certain the home was checked out. That same road leading to the house is at the tail end in a straight line from the County Road that goes past the County Landfill. It’s always intrigued me as a possible parking spot of the perpetrator, more so than the cemetery, especially if an abduction by vehicle was the initial plan.

The bottom red dot on this map -




Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens says they had signature elements | Daily Mail Online

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The BG would have known about these shortcomings, if he did his analysis of all the conditions, in which he wanted to work on his next crime. Maybe, he even planned to disturb the following investigation with an anonymous alarm call to LE, if needed at a certain point. IMO

I personally don’t think the killer is particularly smart at all. I doubt a whole lot of planning if any went into this crime from him. Just a run-of-the-mill killer that got very lucky. I think as four years have gone by we have tried to explain that by making him into some criminal mastermind. I just don’t think so.
Just my thoughts.

 

[MistyWaters]

I personally don’t think the killer is particularly smart at all. I doubt a whole lot of planning if any went into this crime from him. Just a run-of-the-mill killer that got very lucky. I think as four years have gone by we have tried to explain that by making him into some criminal mastermind. I just don’t think so.
Just my thoughts.

I agree. Smart or clever are not the words I associate with anybody who destroys the lives of two innocent teens. I’m certain this person is not living a good life even now, even if they believe they got away with murder.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It is interesting that for a while, there were discussions about Libby’s shoe found in the driveway, but no details provided. My question would be, whose driveway?

But with time, all these shoe discussions petered out.

My memory is that Libby’s shoe was found across the creek from where the bodies were found, near the creek, stuck in mud and leaves. That seemed to be accepted until someone somewhere mentioned it being found on the driveway. My thought at the time was someone was skewing the information to try and support their theory that the girls were taken somewhere and brought back...”because someone should have seen that shoe the day before...”.
For what it’s worth, the HLN special last night showed the shoe mired in mud and grass and leaves, not on a driveway.

 

[MistyWaters]

Websleuths is refusing to quote for me at the moment. The road and riverbank appear virtually adjacent in some areas. I think I remember it was a podcast and KG mentioned the shoe being found on the road/driveway but I’m not 100% certain of that.

It probably doesn’t matter other than the significance of the shoe was it led to the immediate area of the discovery of the bodies....if not the two deer....or the set of footprints on the riverbank (pick one).

 

[steeltowngirl]

Anyone who watched the HLN show last night - did you catch the part where they said Libby’s phone eventually pinged back by the trail? Made it sound like the pings had left, then returned. It had me remembering back to 2017 when it was said that her phone was pinging all around town the night of 2/13.

Anyone recall that? I believe later it was said that it just meant the pings were hitting different towers, not that the location of the phone had ever left the trail area.

Sorry if I’m taking us down an old rabbit hole. It just caught my attention last night while watching.

 

[minazoe]

what if he brought the phone back while searching and dumped it there..? seems like he would be kind of tech savvy...maybe he was trying to create chaos and confusion while driving around with it..maybe he took one of the girls sweatshirts and didn't realize he had the phone..maybe he had no concerns about that phone because it never occurred to him that they got a shot of him or even his voice. maybe the phone was just dropped there and was pinging several towers..but then you would think it would be simultaneous and not " going around town. he could have removed the SIM card if he wanted to.

the phone is so interesting . mOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Anyone who watched the HLN show last night - did you catch the part where they said Libby’s phone eventually pinged back by the trail? Made it sound like the pings had left, then returned. It had me remembering back to 2017 when it was said that her phone was pinging all around town the night of 2/13.

Anyone recall that? I believe later it was said that it just meant the pings were hitting different towers, not that the location of the phone had ever left the trail area.

Sorry if I’m taking us down an old rabbit hole. It just caught my attention last night while watching.

I did note that about the phone on the show last night. It caught my attention mostly because I had never heard that they had heard it pinging at 2:30am and that the sheriff was notified. It sounded like he sent people back out to try and locate the phone, plus Mike Patty and some friends were looking for it too, with no success.
I didn’t take it as a gateway back to the “pinging all around town” rabbit hole. It actually made sense to me. A near dead cell phone lying out on wet ground in very cold weather, occasionally throwing out a signal as it slowly lost power.

 

[sunshineray]

Something I noticed in the HLN Down The Hill Part 1 that I'm hoping someone can explain, maybe if they've been on the bridge...TIA

At 6:48 on the left side of screen, across the creek, what's that area with what looks like a little table and some other smaller boxes?

At 14:28 different shot, still looking across the creek at same items. Now it looks like there's also a circular arraignment of what look like stones into a campfire area, by the three small squares, possibly seats.
Was this popular hangout? I don't think its anyones back yard?

 

[Charlot123]

Anyone who watched the HLN show last night - did you catch the part where they said Libby’s phone eventually pinged back by the trail? Made it sound like the pings had left, then returned. It had me remembering back to 2017 when it was said that her phone was pinging all around town the night of 2/13.

Anyone recall that? I believe later it was said that it just meant the pings were hitting different towers, not that the location of the phone had ever left the trail area.

Sorry if I’m taking us down an old rabbit hole. It just caught my attention last night while watching.

Could it be possible that he took the phone somewhere and planted the video of a man on the bridge? Is it even a possibility that the guy is a total red herring?

I have to ask it, because he either did not take the phone because he was not tech-savvy, or he took it but planted back with some incriminating information that is another red herring.

Sorry, but after the sketch fiasco, any statement of the LE has to be questioned. They are playing against a very unorthodox person/s.

 

[TL4S]

I did note that about the phone on the show last night. It caught my attention mostly because I had never heard that they had heard it pinging at 2:30am and that the sheriff was notified. It sounded like he sent people back out to try and locate the phone, plus Mike Patty and some friends were looking for it too, with no success.
I didn’t take it as a gateway back to the “pinging all around town” rabbit hole. It actually made sense to me. A near dead cell phone lying out on wet ground in very cold weather, occasionally throwing out a signal as it slowly lost power.

I still have it rolling around in my head that the phone did not end up in the water. Pinging at 2:30am after being in the water nearly 12 hours? I guess it's possible, but how likely? It is significant to me mainly because, imo, it is telling about the moments between him killing them and leaving.

There's a lot we don't know, but if he had cleaned up the area, as some have hypothesized, I think he would have disposed of the phone in the creek. Jmo.

Maybe it's irrational of me, but I think he left quickly and the phone remaining where it fell signals that.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Is there a link anywhere to watch last night's special online?? It's not on YT yet by the look of things..

TIA

 

[steeltowngirl]

I did note that about the phone on the show last night. It caught my attention mostly because I had never heard that they had heard it pinging at 2:30am and that the sheriff was notified. It sounded like he sent people back out to try and locate the phone, plus Mike Patty and some friends were looking for it too, with no success.
I didn’t take it as a gateway back to the “pinging all around town” rabbit hole. It actually made sense to me. A near dead cell phone lying out on wet ground in very cold weather, occasionally throwing out a signal as it slowly lost power.

Sounds like they weren’t getting pings (wet conditions, or weak signal from cell tower service), then they got a ping around 2:30 am. Which would make sense based on an occasional signal getting through as the phone lost power.

Am I understanding it correctly?

ETA for clarity: the show didn’t go down the ping rabbithole, that’s all me....